Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Living with a narcissist

404 replies

Abitwobblynow · 22/06/2012 23:55

Is hard. Busy taking one day at a time whilst I work on myself and developing stability. He isn't horrible but he isn't available either.

Anyway, now that my eyes are opened, it is sad/interesting to see the mini-moments that announce his narcness, that I was so blind to before! If I see them, I can either set boundaries or self-soothe to stay calm.

Last weekend, he tells me he bought a Ferrari. *

So, phone rings (he is on a business trip). Telling me about his evening out with adoring female acolytes (he likes them best). I started telling him about two of our friends, who are having issues.

Silence, and then: well then. I must go.

I have come on so much. I used to be destroyed, now I feel vaguely sorry for him. It must be awful to be that empty.

*Don't worry. Whilst I did not cause him, cannot cure him and certainly can't control him, it went down on the list with all the other toys for misappropriation of marital assets when the time comes.

OP posts:
Lueji · 06/07/2012 21:09

Oh, we got a VW because it was the car he wanted and nothing else could possibly be suitable.

At least I convinced him to get 5 doors for a future (at the time) child.

OTOH, the car was put in mine name for insurance purposes and he refused once to confirm that he was caught speeding. So I got the points.
He always had to drive when we went together.
The end of the story is that as we separated, the car is mine, as it's in my name. LOL

He still asks DS about his car, to which DS replies that it's mine. Eheh.

Lueji · 06/07/2012 21:10

The threats were mainly after separating and were by e-mail and text.

They have all been logged on with the police.

DoingItForMyself · 06/07/2012 21:49

Springy, my stbxh had a running joke that I used to be a man. Wonder why I didn't fancy sex with him very often?!

Mine always wanted a Volvo Hmm not exactly up there with the proper narcs, but he loved the idea of traditional, classic, manly cars with walnut dash etc so I suppose it fits in (at the cheapo end of the scale!) He also has 2 bikes - one for roads, one for....erm paths?! and couldn't possibly be expected to part with one of them (how could I possibly understand the subtle differences?)

springydaffs · 06/07/2012 21:58

re the gauche/elephant thing - I was size 8/10 and just over 5' at the time.

seaofyou · 06/07/2012 22:13

It shows Doingit though that whatever the badges and labels were so important for show to the world they are far superiour and as springy reminds me their objects meaning more to them than any human beings! The most stupid thing ex threaten to call the police over getting this rice cooker that was worth £10 back! Clearly more important than ex first born due in 3 months!

springydaffs · 06/07/2012 22:32

stbxh had a running joke that I used to be a man

bastard Angry

DoingItForMyself · 06/07/2012 23:07

Springy, thats the trouble though, as much as you know tis not true, it still colours your view of yourself doesn't it.

He called me Bubbles form Little Britain and when I tried to explain why I was so upset (it was just a joke! har har, he didn't mean my body, just the skirt I was wearing Hmm ) I asked how he'd feel if I told him that he looked like Daffyd 'the only gay in the village' in his cycling shorts. He said it wouldn't bother him because he knew it wasn't true. Must be nice to be so sure of yourself and the overweight bald old bastard did look a bit like him

garlicbutt · 06/07/2012 23:27

You know what, DoingIt, this is true: "Must be nice to be so sure of yourself". It's one of the things I'm having a hard time coming to terms with. Narcissism is healthy. The narcissism isn't the problem, the problem is the rigidity. That rigidity infects your view of self-love so, somehow, you come to feel it's better to not love yourself.

It's actually OK to look like Daffyd or Bubbles and be proud. The warped part is where you think you look like David Beckham or Kate Moss. And the inverse warp is feeling "shame" because you don't look like Beckham or Moss.

I spent a lot of time in front of a mirror during therapy, reciting affirmations. It makes me cross to know people put me in need of that. On the upside I'm remarkably sanguine about my appearance now, good and bad!

DoingItForMyself · 06/07/2012 23:32

Well I know full well that I don't look like her, but what upset me was that in his eyes what he saw when he looked at me was not Halle Berry carrying a few extra pounds but a fat bloke in a fat woman suit.

No matter what you see when you look in the mirror, to remember how it felt to have your husband say something so insulting and then dismiss it, puts such a dent in your confidence - even Halle Berry might doubt her beauty!

garlicbutt · 06/07/2012 23:34

Oh, she would.

DoingItForMyself · 06/07/2012 23:57

Should I be feeling pissed off that he's just agreed to a divorce? I know its what I need to happen for my own well-being and sent him a message this afternoon saying that we should both have a think about what we think would be fair and then contact a mediator to try and resolve it without costing too much.

He replied, "Agree with what you say on divorce and am happy to use a mediator " and my stomach just lurched. I KNOW this is what I need, while I am still married to him I feel that I have to keep trying not to rock the boat so that he doesn't suddenly become unreasonable about money. I know that if I strike while the iron is still hot I will probably get a better sympathy deal out of him.

But why do I feel sick that he is so calm about it. I honestly thought he might say lets leave it until the dust has settled or something, I suppose I wanted to feel in control of the situation and he has pulled the rug from under me yet again. Sad

ThereGoesTheYear · 07/07/2012 00:03

Coming out of lurkdom to say:
MB pen - check
Church's shoes - check
Collar stiffeners - check
Double cuffs - check
'Premium' cars only - check
Bespoke suits and shirts
Had to feel superior to everyone else. These 'badges' are proof to him.

ThereGoesTheYear · 07/07/2012 00:06

doingit do you think he knows all this and is doing it deliberately?

DoingItForMyself · 07/07/2012 00:10

Quite possibly TGTY. He's never been very emotional so it probably does just make sense, but he previously said that he can't see any rush, and yet as soon as I mention it, suddenly its a good idea. I have a lump in my throat and tears in my eyes, so I suppose if that was his intention, it worked. i still want to do it, I just wish that just once I could have the upper hand, but even now, with the final move, he has to take the wind out of my sails. God I hate him.

springydaffs · 07/07/2012 00:24

He genuinely thought he had the inside track, that all those other suckers out there were doing it the hard way but not him. He sort of sneered at normality, like being normal was an idiot's game when you could fly along a track that had nothing to do with normal life; that you could pick and have the best.

the thing that is so hard to accept is that 'they' never loved us. that is just one big thing to get your head around ('what, not at all? ever? surely, he must have loved me on some level?' well, no he didn't. He used me as a prop in his play which was why it was so important that I did exactly what he said I should. him being the director and all.)

ThereGoesTheYear · 07/07/2012 00:30

Sounds like he's doing it precisely so that you don't feel that you have the upper hand. But my goodness you do. You're the only one out of the pair of you ever likely to experience true human connection, joy or happiness. And so much more now that you're getting shot of him.

garlicbutt · 07/07/2012 02:17

"Agree with what you say"

Quite possibly he knows you'll feel he's taken the wind out of your sails. But he hasn't, has he? His response is drama-free. So, maybe the "wind" you wanted was a drama but, fuck that, he has given you the upper hand for now. Attempt calm satisfaction and start building strong, thick boundaries!
Well done :)

TGTY, your list post gave me a chuckle. Can't say why, exactly, it's that "Oh, look, mad Narc behaviour!" chuckle. I'm sure you know it well.

Abitwobblynow · 07/07/2012 02:50

Check check check to everything too (how many watches does a person NEED?)

IC said (and he has also said) it is to try to fill the inner void.

Now that I have come up against and own that I recognise the inner nothingness I am so shocked I have gone a bit quiet.

How can you be NOTHING inside? How can you be so self-absorbed that nothing else exists? How can you be so self-loathing you can't look at anything?

Its just not quite human.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 07/07/2012 08:40

Depression feels like that though - that there is nothing inside, hollow (plus obsessed with oneself, self-absorbed)

DoingItForMyself · 07/07/2012 08:59

Yes, the hollowness sounds familiar, nothing ever gave him joy, so he bought stuff to try and fill the void, but it was never enough, so he bought more and tried to claw back more time to himself, space to himself and stuff that no-one else could touch because it was HIS.

He kept saying he'd have made a good lottery winner and he should have been born into money because he'd know how to spend it properly (yeah, a huge garage full or cars and motorbikes - cliche much?!) He'd say he shouldn't have to work, he wasn't cut out for it and would make jokes at home like "shouldn't I have staff to do this for me?" whenever he had to do anything menial.

He honestly thought he should have been more special than he was. He was an Essex boy from a council house background, hard-working parents, with delusions of something more. Even in his job he likes to say that there are only a couple of thousand people in the whole country that do what he does (wow - exclusive!) and was totally dumbfounded when another one moved into our street, like it was the most amazing coincidence ever!

He was just desperately scrabbling around for something to justify his existence, anything to take away the numbness and make him feel something I think.

The more I pushed for 'happy family times' the more he resented me because he knew that it wouldn't fill 'his' void even if everyone else needed that to feel like a 'normal' family.

I do associate with the 'filling the void' thing because I think I do it with food. There's an emptiness in the centre of me where love should be, but it feels like hunger so I eat to fill it.

springydaffs · 07/07/2012 10:15

oh gosh, me too (re food)

catsrus · 07/07/2012 11:40

gosh yes - that inner hole that he had to fill with "stuff" (he was a keen collector of something that would be a great investment for the future but ended up making him a huge loss) and other people's adoration - he only existed when he was being told how wonderful he was. He used to get that at work, but when that turned sour my ex turned to strange new age "personal growth" stuff and became a guru type (the OW was one of his clients/devotees). The children / family only had value when they made him look good, most of the time they seemed to be an annoyance (he never came to a single parents evening, ever, and only 2 school events and my dcs are adults now). Ironically I'm beginning to realise that he probably liked my independence, feminism, career, because he felt it made him stand out from his colleagues - many of whom were onto the younger trophy wife many years ago.

It's very sad really as my ex has no friendships going back many years (as I do, and thought was normal) he bounces from one group of people who are going to be "his friends for life" to another Sad. Nothing I, or anyone (including the new DW) can do to fill the hole.

garlicbutt · 07/07/2012 14:27

Well before I knew what was going on, I used to say my exes and I were attracted by our 'sadness'.

With X1, it was a shared desire to rise above our small-town backgrounds. To be fair to both of us, what we did was an achievement. People in his home town (where our relationship started) were quite vicious about our ambition, saying we'd be back with tails between our legs. I was the one to drive the changes: it would have been easier and less painful to do it alone, for myself only, but he was fully on board. Once we started to see results, we both enjoyed the trappings of a fairly glamorous life. This life was inherently narcissistic - we were welcome to jump the queue at clubs that had 'beauty bouncers', for example - so his narcissism didn't register as unusual to me (though it did to some of my glamorous friends). Where I was being 'filled' by having hundreds of sparkly, affectionate friends, his need was more insistent: adulation. Being told how fabulous you were and hugged by hordes wasn't enough; he had to be at the centre, holding court. Over time, people told me he was out of kilter but I didn't hear them right. The 'sadness' we shared held me in the relationship so I didn't see that I was only an accessory to him. The glamorous friends; the automatic entry; the memberships and invitations ... they were all mine. He called them ours and I never questioned that.

He said he made my success - er, because he influenced my choice of clothes and music?! He sometimes quoted the Human League lyric: "Don't forget it's me who put you where you are now. And I can put you back down too." That places us squarely in the 80s, doesn't it Grin
By the end, I saw him as a hopeless case. A one-off, designer case made of the finest stuff, with nice things rattling around the hollow interior! I still felt the sadness, though, and that made me too soft on him when we split - even after he strangled me, god help me. And that's how I lost everything the first time.

Narc flatmate and I were drawn together by cynicism. We were both good with dark humour although I never found any roots to her pain. She, too, was a crowd-gatherer and friend-stealer, 'filling' her self with drugs and other people's husbands; making herself feel better by making me feel worse. After five years of increasingly overt hostility, I moved in with another Narc just to get away from her.

I think I married X2 to get away from the second Narc flatmate. X2 was the opposite of the others - quiet, sullen, unassuming. I was feeling very, very cynical at the time and my (humorously) negative outlook found expression in his darkness. You know all those pulp romances with a brooding hero? Like that Blush I felt we had an understanding that surpasses words. Which is just as well, as he was absolutely shite with words. I thought he had some sort of affliction which, once I learned about Asperger's, fitted that description. I still think he has, but there's more to him than that. He is a fraud, a thief, a bully, sexist and is horrible to people who cross him. Really horrible. He bears grudges. My romantic side - the 'sadness' - felt we were both outcasts so he played on that. Of course, I wasn't really an outcast. I brought experience (older than him), knowledge, contacts, ambition, prettiness and money to his life. He brought me good sex and screaming insecurity. The insecurity made me feel more bonded, as if I needed him, where all logic said he needed me. But, then, I 'needed to be needed'. The marriage didn't last long and he played a long, cruel game to make sure I got nothing for all my contributions.

So - after yet another long blurt about my life - I got around to identifying this 'hole' and set about filling it properly, with the long and difficult processes of inner child work. My therapists have been extremely helpful - I wish I still had one - but, you know what? Mumsnet has been a truer guide to what the problem is and how to stay (roughly) on track with recovery. If the sociopaths who shaped me have taught me anything, it's that this 'hole', my sadness, cannot be filled with anything or anyone external to myself. I have felt as if I've needed to tear down my own identity, like a house that was built on quicksand, and start again from scratch. I'm only in the very early stages of seeing which bits of the old 'house' might be worth reclaiming and incorporating into the new, more stable structure. Just writing that makes me feel sad.

I believe it could be done more quickly with fuller recognition and appropriate guidance, which is why I'm labouring the point a bit. Not all victims of sociopaths were trained to the job by sociopathic parents, but very many were. For us, recovery - and immunisation - begins in Stately Homes territory. It's a pain in the arse ... but at least we're capable of it! Sociopaths aren't. And there's the difference: the understanding of what it is to be fully human, with enough self-insight to want it instead of mimicking it.

garlicbutt · 07/07/2012 14:29

Cats, crazy flatmate was always going on about how many friends she had. She'd even sit and count them up. With each name, she'd add "They'll do anything for me!" It was after about the hundred and twentieth repetition of this that I realised she NEVER said she'd do anything for them.

Lueji · 07/07/2012 14:57

I don't know if ex was a narcisist, although he has some traits.
In his social anxiety he assumes people take notice of him and think badly of him.
Why would anyone be bothered about him?

When we were dating he asked me if I'd still love him if he was not handsome. WTF?

Swipe left for the next trending thread