Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Dumped by EA partner again

147 replies

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 00:28

I have previously been in two abusive relationships. Since the second, I've read Why Does He Do That? and the Freedom Programme materials.

I've been going out with someone else since last November. I've been friends with him for 5.5 years, so I knew he had sulky/PA tendencies. I've always liked him though and thought that he might actually be redeemable (unlike the previous two).

I made it clear that I wouldn't move in with him until I was happy with his behaviour (we're currently 200 miles away from each other but I'm moving closer soon for other reasons).

He admitted being EA months ago but has not put any real effort into fixing it till very recently, when he finally read the Lundy Bancroft book. He also read these materials: shouldistayorshouldigo.net/bonusmaterials.html and agreed to make an action plan.

We agreed to a sort of break where we wouldn't have sex/be a proper couple, but would stay exclusive and be affectionate while he worked on things.

Last time he visited he was clearly EA in front of my daughter (looking back there may have been other lesser incidents I didn't notice at the time) which was a big thing for me as previously I thought it was confined to online. Very worried about it affecting her as she grows up as she already has an abusive father, one is more than enough!

So I have been seeing it in a much more serious light and been more willing to criticise him and stand my ground when calling him on things since then (online, he hasn't been back here since).

He has dumped me four times before, changing his mind the next day. In anger, as a punishment for me not agreeing, not backing down, criticising him etc. Blaming it on us 'not being compatible' - code for it being my fault - I have Aspergers so am unusual in the way I interact sometimes (he expects a lot of verbal affection to reassure himself, this doesn't come naturally to me, although I am fine expressing physical affection), but he knew this from the start and has always seemingly accepted me as a friend.

He's started a new thing recently where he introduces a topic, then refuses to answer questions because he knows I won't like the answer. Although then he does tell me in the end so the refusing bit is an unnecessary additional frustration itself.

I'd just criticised the way he was talking about something as it could be interpreted as defensive and blaming me. This was something he'd agreed not to do in the plan. He always claims he isn't doing it when I point it out, although he agrees he does in general. So I don't know when these occasions are that he does actually do it, if each specific one is denied!

Anyway, to avoid this situation of denial I said that as I couldn't tell the difference between him doing it deliberately and a misinterpretation, maybe he should avoid using ambiguous language that could be interpreted that way. Which he agreed to. Therefore if he does it, he's in the wrong, whatever he claims was his motivation.

So I could tell he was already annoyed about me saying that he was doing it this time, and he kept doing it (and denying it) in response to my comments.

Then I asked for the final draft of his plan, he said he was reluctant to send it to me. I asked why, multiple times, he wouldn't answer (both by evasion and direct refusal). Then said "The plan has changed by a few words. You can have it, I was just reluctant, because you would rewrite it again. It's MY plan, that I can share with you."

As the plan materials say it's suitable for me to, I suggested additions to his plan when I saw the first draft. He was willing for me to do this at the time, and agreed the additions were necessary. Even his sister agreed about the alcohol-related one (she was staying with him so he mentioned it).

But now apparently he resents my input and didn't include the changes (except the alcohol stuff) discussed in the final draft anyway. And there isn't much point in having the plan if your partner is still telling you you're still behaving unacceptably in ways that aren't in it!

So I said that I felt he hadn't responded non-emotionally, and had broken other commitments in the plan, so we should enforce the penalty written into it which this time meant no contact for three days (he already had a two day ban Mon-Wed which he put in place and the way he did it felt quite controlling, like it was actually a punishment for me, especially as he blocked me on Facebook where we normally talk, which unfriends you automatically).

As soon as I said that, he said he was still here (one of the things I'd objected to was him ignoring me for 27 minutes although I'd typed to him in that time, which is a regular issue and he isn't supposed to just go away and stop talking in anger to punish me, only as a break, calmly discussed).

I said it still stood and I'd see him in three days, then logged off.

He then unfriended/blocked me on Facebook again, hid or deactivated his account (I can't see it in the search results any more), and sent me an email saying he doesn't want to talk to me again. I.e. it's over (again...).

Is there any way back from this if he changes his mind again? Have I done anything wrong in this? I mean I'm sure I haven't but you know how gaslighting makes you think you're crazy and unreasonable. I feel like I should post the entire conversation just to be fair to him so you aren't only getting one side, but it's too long.

I know everyone will just say it's a lost cause and I should give up on him. And if it was either of the last two people I'd be saying it myself. But I really thought this one could work.

I wanted him to agree to go to an abuse perpetrator's programme (as part of the external help bit of the plan), but he ignored that suggestion. Instead he wants to talk online to an ex of his (who is a counsellor). I don't have an issue with the ex bit per se, although I do wonder if she can be impartial if she sees issues coming up that they might have had too. But the counsellor bit makes me wary as I know this can enable them further. He said he'd make sure he was honest with her and she would call him on stuff (hmm).

If he does return, should I insist on some other form of outside help? And how long should I give him to improve before giving up? I don't want to set an arbitrary time limit but then I don't want to be in the same situation still being messed around in a year's time.

Sorry for extreme length!

OP posts:
dexterthecat · 17/06/2012 17:17

dexterthecat I know they shouldn't be this hard work. I just want to make sure that there's no point doing the work before I stop. I don't care if I finish it or not if it's unfinishable, what I want is help in determining whether it can be finished or not

But why???? What is the point??? It goes back to to me saying that you're treating this like some sort of project which is fine if you don't have children and have nothing better to do with your life. But you do.

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 17:24

TheHappyHissy Well I'm not allowing him in her life, that's why he hasn't visited since. She doesn't know what he's typing to me. I can't do anything about her father till I move, that's a whole other thread, which I have posted before (under a different name).

I know you don't believe me, but I shan't have any problems with a new relationship. I haven't got involved in one since doing all the reading, this started before I was aware of all that. And I shan't take him back unfixed (or necessarily at all) regardless of the fact that I do specifically want him at the moment still. When I decide to do something, I do it. Especially now I have a child. My theory is easily applied in practice. It's making the decision in the first place I found difficult, but that's done now.

I don't have problems with willpower or self-esteem that would overrule my intellectual decision, now it's made. My unhealthy attitudes may still need fixing, but they won't affect my future actions. I am very black and white like that.

I am happy to do everything else, but I won't go to counselling. It would be a waste of everybody's time as I am simply not able to engage in that specific way. It might be great for most people, but not everyone is the same.

OP posts:
isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 17:31

dexterthecat Well I was using your analogy/terminology. I just meant it might be worth saving if he had the potential to be a great partner/stepfather when fixed.

I know people are saying there are plenty of nice men out there, but there aren't actually plenty for me as I have fairly narrow criteria for picking them in the first place. So if there's a chance of keeping a potentially good one, it seems like a shame not to try. But I know that it's better to be single than settle for a bad one.

OP posts:
TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 17:53

That sounds more positive.

When HE's FIXED. Not before. The onus is on HIM, not you.

Assume that it really IS over, forewver over, because the person he develops into on his journey will change him, is the person you may want to get to know down the line.

The old him is not welcome. Not even a whiff of him.

Hold out for perfect. You deserve it.

bogeyface · 17/06/2012 22:41

You know what, the more I read ...and this will not be a popular opinion and I am prepared to be flamed......I think that you are a bit of a drama llama. You have gone into this like someone finding a new hobby!

Reading all the books, doing courses, visiting places, in 6 weeks. It all seems a bit.....odd.

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 23:06

Huh? What places have I visited? And where does 6 weeks come in?

OP posts:
bogeyface · 17/06/2012 23:19

My apologies, I implied from your most recent post that you had done all of this since being with your ...ex? most recent BF? Dont know what to call him! I typo'd 6 weeks, I meant three, again because I read it like you have done all this in the 3 weeks you have been working on it. You said you have visited a unit.

So, I apologise for getting the minutae wrong.

But it does seem that you have read a book and now are using that "knowledge" to project manage this man. It just seems a bit too ....... enthusiastic for a woman who is conerned that she is in an abusive relationship. Its almost as if the abuse doesnt bother you so much as not being allowed to fix him as he has now left you.

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 23:25

bogeyface No, I started reading Why Does He and the Freedom Programme book soon after I started going out with the most recent ex. I went to one of the twelve Freedom Programme sessions but couldn't go back because of childcare so I did the course online instead. That stuff was early this year. I was just pointing out to HH that I had effectively done the Freedom Programme as she suggested, just not all in person.

None of the above happened in the last three weeks, the recent stuff was him reading Why Does He and looking for help online (like that plan from the second Lundy book) to fix himself.

OP posts:
bogeyface · 17/06/2012 23:28

Well, as I said, I got that wrong and I apologise for misunderstanding.

What about the rest of my post?

Opentooffers · 17/06/2012 23:34

So, how about if I asked you to stop being Aspergers tomorrow? Could you do it? No? So, try to equate that to "could you stop the EA please?".
Why people end up with the same abusive types is because of a misplaced belief that they can change their ways. Read all the books (authors will thank you for their income). Try all the trick out there on the web (with advertising attached). He won't change because he can't.
If I am wrong I'd like to invite all the ex-EA's who have seen the error of their ways to write on here how they did it. Does anybody know someone who was an EA who is now not? I won't hold my breath for a positive response there.
Solution - quit trying to save an EA and find someone who isn't !!

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 23:36

bogeyface Well I don't really see how it's relevant any more, have you read the whole of the thread? I've already decided not to try and be involved in it any more, and let him get on with it himself. Hopefully he will manage it and there will be a chance to start something again later if we're both still interested.

I never saw him as a project for me, only for himself. But the plan materials said I should be involved if I wanted, so I made suggestions and pointed out when he'd broken commitments. As he asked me to. As someone said earlier, I like having rules. I was given rules in the form of using the plan, and him asking me to do X when he did Y, so I followed them.

I think people think I'm obsessed with the fixing process, rather than the relationship itself. I'm not, it's just that I focus on details more easily than the big picture, so I just do whatever seems to be needed in small steps and don't realise how it affects the overall situation. HH's posts showed me why that wasn't going to work this time, so I changed my mind.

OP posts:
Opentooffers · 17/06/2012 23:38

...and all the he did this, I did that going round and round. It's faffing, it's missing the big picture and its such a waste of time that it's actually quite sad

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 23:39

Opentooffers Aspergers is a developmental disorder, abuse is a choice, not some kind of illness (according to everything I've ever read/been told, anyway). So they are not comparable.

Some people do change, just not very many cos they don't want to put in the hard work and stop feeling entitled. I explained why I thought he might be one of the ones who may actually do it.

And I have stopped trying, if you've read the whole thread.

OP posts:
bogeyface · 17/06/2012 23:40

I have been on most of it! I hope that it works out for you.

I realise that I sounded harsh and again I apologise for that. I was getting frustrated at what appeared to be your total refusal to accept what people who have dealt with E Abusers for many years (myself included) were saying.

I really do hope that you end up in a good place for YOU. :)

isthistheendthistime · 18/06/2012 00:23

bogeyface It's not that I don't accept it, more that I wanted specific kinds of answers (rather than the normal 'give up, it's hopeless') to particular questions, and then I got them from HH.

I know everyone else was trying to help too, I just found her explanation of WHY it wouldn't work, rather than THAT it wouldn't, more useful. As it gave my intellectual brain new info to process and make a new decision, rather than appealing to my emotional brain, which is always overruled by the intellectual one when it comes to action.

I realise it may not seem like that, but my previous actions were perfectly logical to me, with the info I already had. There will be some kind of "grieving" process for the relationship in the emotional brain, but the intellectual brain won't let that make a difference to how I actually act.

Hmm, I probably sound crazy now...

Thanks everyone for your input. Maybe I will remember to come and update you one day.

OP posts:
stuffitunderthebed · 18/06/2012 00:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

isthistheendthistime · 18/06/2012 00:27

stuffitunderthebed No, if he was going to I think he would wait till Tuesday, when the three day ban would have expired. Otherwise he may be waiting for me to, but he'll be waiting a long time then ;)

OP posts:
isthistheendthistime · 18/06/2012 00:28

Tuesday 5pm-ish, by the way.

OP posts:
stuffitunderthebed · 18/06/2012 00:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Opentooffers · 18/06/2012 00:37

There could be a nature verses nurture issue here. Two unrelated people with similar abusive upbringing may not go on to abuse in the same way. There is an element of hereditary propensity to develop personality traits. Do abusers always make a concious choice to abuse? I doubt it, a lot of it is instinctive, part learnt, part genetic - genes have been identified that could predispose people to aggressive behaviour. Not that years of CBT could not undo some of the outside harm, but it does not guarantee a successful outcome. And really, if professionals struggle, what chance is there for an amateur with a few books?EA's are not going to accept help from the subject of their abuse,ie. you. If they don't accept professional help it's a hiding to nothing. Sorry to seem so blunt about it but as you are still thinking that in 2 years he may magically change you seem to need a reality check. I hope you don't find another to try and fix meantime for your sake. Being on your own is better than an EA any day.

isthistheendthistime · 18/06/2012 00:38

stuffitunderthebed No, I'd rather have some level of closure by telling him what HH suggested. Otherwise I'd always be wondering whether or not he was still interested and if he had just given up or was waiting for me to go running after him.

I've already made the decision, there's no issue with willpower. I won't be taking him back now if that's what you're worried about.

OP posts:
stuffitunderthebed · 18/06/2012 00:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

isthistheendthistime · 18/06/2012 01:00

Opentooffers I'm sceptical of your theory, there's plenty of evidence for the nurture part of it. The exact nature of the abuse isn't that important really, just that they both exert power/control over someone. Counselling isn't recommended for abusers as it tends to enable them further. So they should be attending an abuse perpetrator's programme, not CBT.

Also it's irrelevant as I've already said multiple times I am not offering him my help any more and would not take him back without the appropriate professional help (e.g. a Respect course). I don't think he will magically change. I think that this is the only way there's even a remote possibility he will, and that by that time I will probably be distanced enough by time and lack of propinquity that I won't mind if it doesn't happen.

I've also already said many times I shan't be getting into another abusive relationship and I don't have an obsession with fixing people and that I know being single is better than being with someone abusive.

You seem a bit patronising and ill-informed compared to the other posters on the thread, I don't think further posts from you are going to help me at all, thanks.

OP posts:
Opentooffers · 18/06/2012 16:48

Ok will leave this thread, and thanks for trying to patronise back. I admit, I have clearly not wasted the same amount of time reading about this as some people have ....thank God!

CinnabarRed · 18/06/2012 17:42

I'm ashamed to be writing this on here, but...

Would you mind giving up an example of his emotional abuse towards you? (Please feel free to say No.)

It's just that your replies seem so - I'm struggling with words here - off kilter? - in terms of emotional intelligence that I find myself completely devoid of any sense him - who he is - from your posts.

I'm sorry, I know that this sounds like I don't believe you. I completely do. And a purely factual account of an actual event may help.

Swipe left for the next trending thread