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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Dumped by EA partner again

147 replies

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 00:28

I have previously been in two abusive relationships. Since the second, I've read Why Does He Do That? and the Freedom Programme materials.

I've been going out with someone else since last November. I've been friends with him for 5.5 years, so I knew he had sulky/PA tendencies. I've always liked him though and thought that he might actually be redeemable (unlike the previous two).

I made it clear that I wouldn't move in with him until I was happy with his behaviour (we're currently 200 miles away from each other but I'm moving closer soon for other reasons).

He admitted being EA months ago but has not put any real effort into fixing it till very recently, when he finally read the Lundy Bancroft book. He also read these materials: shouldistayorshouldigo.net/bonusmaterials.html and agreed to make an action plan.

We agreed to a sort of break where we wouldn't have sex/be a proper couple, but would stay exclusive and be affectionate while he worked on things.

Last time he visited he was clearly EA in front of my daughter (looking back there may have been other lesser incidents I didn't notice at the time) which was a big thing for me as previously I thought it was confined to online. Very worried about it affecting her as she grows up as she already has an abusive father, one is more than enough!

So I have been seeing it in a much more serious light and been more willing to criticise him and stand my ground when calling him on things since then (online, he hasn't been back here since).

He has dumped me four times before, changing his mind the next day. In anger, as a punishment for me not agreeing, not backing down, criticising him etc. Blaming it on us 'not being compatible' - code for it being my fault - I have Aspergers so am unusual in the way I interact sometimes (he expects a lot of verbal affection to reassure himself, this doesn't come naturally to me, although I am fine expressing physical affection), but he knew this from the start and has always seemingly accepted me as a friend.

He's started a new thing recently where he introduces a topic, then refuses to answer questions because he knows I won't like the answer. Although then he does tell me in the end so the refusing bit is an unnecessary additional frustration itself.

I'd just criticised the way he was talking about something as it could be interpreted as defensive and blaming me. This was something he'd agreed not to do in the plan. He always claims he isn't doing it when I point it out, although he agrees he does in general. So I don't know when these occasions are that he does actually do it, if each specific one is denied!

Anyway, to avoid this situation of denial I said that as I couldn't tell the difference between him doing it deliberately and a misinterpretation, maybe he should avoid using ambiguous language that could be interpreted that way. Which he agreed to. Therefore if he does it, he's in the wrong, whatever he claims was his motivation.

So I could tell he was already annoyed about me saying that he was doing it this time, and he kept doing it (and denying it) in response to my comments.

Then I asked for the final draft of his plan, he said he was reluctant to send it to me. I asked why, multiple times, he wouldn't answer (both by evasion and direct refusal). Then said "The plan has changed by a few words. You can have it, I was just reluctant, because you would rewrite it again. It's MY plan, that I can share with you."

As the plan materials say it's suitable for me to, I suggested additions to his plan when I saw the first draft. He was willing for me to do this at the time, and agreed the additions were necessary. Even his sister agreed about the alcohol-related one (she was staying with him so he mentioned it).

But now apparently he resents my input and didn't include the changes (except the alcohol stuff) discussed in the final draft anyway. And there isn't much point in having the plan if your partner is still telling you you're still behaving unacceptably in ways that aren't in it!

So I said that I felt he hadn't responded non-emotionally, and had broken other commitments in the plan, so we should enforce the penalty written into it which this time meant no contact for three days (he already had a two day ban Mon-Wed which he put in place and the way he did it felt quite controlling, like it was actually a punishment for me, especially as he blocked me on Facebook where we normally talk, which unfriends you automatically).

As soon as I said that, he said he was still here (one of the things I'd objected to was him ignoring me for 27 minutes although I'd typed to him in that time, which is a regular issue and he isn't supposed to just go away and stop talking in anger to punish me, only as a break, calmly discussed).

I said it still stood and I'd see him in three days, then logged off.

He then unfriended/blocked me on Facebook again, hid or deactivated his account (I can't see it in the search results any more), and sent me an email saying he doesn't want to talk to me again. I.e. it's over (again...).

Is there any way back from this if he changes his mind again? Have I done anything wrong in this? I mean I'm sure I haven't but you know how gaslighting makes you think you're crazy and unreasonable. I feel like I should post the entire conversation just to be fair to him so you aren't only getting one side, but it's too long.

I know everyone will just say it's a lost cause and I should give up on him. And if it was either of the last two people I'd be saying it myself. But I really thought this one could work.

I wanted him to agree to go to an abuse perpetrator's programme (as part of the external help bit of the plan), but he ignored that suggestion. Instead he wants to talk online to an ex of his (who is a counsellor). I don't have an issue with the ex bit per se, although I do wonder if she can be impartial if she sees issues coming up that they might have had too. But the counsellor bit makes me wary as I know this can enable them further. He said he'd make sure he was honest with her and she would call him on stuff (hmm).

If he does return, should I insist on some other form of outside help? And how long should I give him to improve before giving up? I don't want to set an arbitrary time limit but then I don't want to be in the same situation still being messed around in a year's time.

Sorry for extreme length!

OP posts:
TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 15:57

I'm saying (tough crowd) that YOU need to be a hard audience for him to please, that you put him through the ringer if he wants a relationship with you.

You had your fingers burnt by him already, what idiot would let that happen again.

Establish your zero line of tolerance of abuse, concrete it into position and tell him not to step over it.

I don't think socialising is a good idea, that gives him opportunity to worm his way in, turn on the charm and short circuit the distance.

It will also mean that you will be observing him and somehow still involved.

Clean break, no reason to stay in touch. None whatsoever.

TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 15:59

If you end it now, there is a WIN-WIN situation for you.

You can't lose.

If you stay with him, you CAN'T WIN, you will only lose.

got it?

Get on with your life and be happy, and see what happens down the line. If it is meant to be, it will be.

QuintessentialShadows · 17/06/2012 16:03

Yes yes, Hissy makes good points.

KirstyJC · 17/06/2012 16:06

Are you in love with him?

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 16:14

RulersMakeBadLovers I understand what you mean, but he said he wanted me to do that, to say 'remember you aren't allowed to do X' every time he did it, and that therefore I thought that was me doing what he wants, rather than me making him do it.

If you mean epiphanies by lightbulbs, we both had several in the last three weeks, that's partly why I thought it was going better.

TheHappyHissy Even though I will end it completely externally, in my head I will be waiting two years to see what he's like then. Not saying I won't get on with life in the meantime, and obviously if I met someone else during that time I wouldn't dump them to go back out with him, but if I'm single then I would be hoping he'd sorted it out and would still be interested, ideally. If not then I would move on permanently.

Well nobody is perfect. I shan't accept abusive ones in future though.

OP posts:
ashesgirl · 17/06/2012 16:18

I think the good thing about going no contact with people like this is that it gives you the space and time to really get it all into perspective.

I should think after 2-3 months away, you will probably find you're far less interested. After 2 years, he will seem such a distant memory to you.

Appreciate it doesn't seem that way now as you're emotionally tied up in him.

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 16:21

TheHappyHissy Well I'm not going to refuse to go to group events if he is there, that seems unnecessarily divisive considering both of us have quite a small group of friends and most of them are mutual.

I don't understand how I'm going to put him through a wringer if I am not meant to have any contact with him at all, anyway. How will anything happen down the line if I have told him not to talk to me at all ever?

KirstyJC I hate questions like this. Of course I would say I am, otherwise what would be the point?! But someone will come along and tell me I clearly don't respect him and respect is an essential part of love, or that if I think I love him then I don't know what love is and need more therapy, or that it isn't love it's obsession etc etc.

OP posts:
bogeyface · 17/06/2012 16:23

Isthis I am not going to say you dont love him, but I would like to ask a question.

Are you in love with him, as he is now, warts and all? Or are you in love with him minus the abuse?

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 16:23

ashesgirl Yes you might be right. But at least putting that time limit on it now makes it easier to let go temporarily to start with, even if that becomes permanent in my head later.

OP posts:
bogeyface · 17/06/2012 16:24

Sorry I didnt put that very well, I meant are you in love with the man he could be (the "potential" you mentioned) if he changed?

KirstyJC · 17/06/2012 16:26

I wasn't trying to be smart - I just couldn't see anywhere that you had said you actually love him, just how that he would be perfect if he was different/changed etc. I was just thinking that if you don't love him now then there really isn't anything to work for, that's all.

Seems like I hit a nerve with that question though, given your OTT response!

Twiggy71 · 17/06/2012 16:34

Please go and "fix" yourself give yourself some timeout from having a relationship.

Instead of trying to "fix" your bf go to counselling enjoy time with your dd and family and friends..

I have been separated now 3 1/2 years after an ea relationship and I am still finding out about myself even now. You change a lot of yourself in relationships to accomadate the other person if even you don't realise you do this..

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 16:37

bogeyface I can't really give a simple answer to that, I don't know. I think I fell in love with him when we were friends actually, when I wasn't seeing his behaviour as abusive (and yes I know less is still not OK, but it was pretty minor then in comparison). But it's also grown since then, as I got to know him better.

I think my Aspergers makes it difficult for me to understand people initially, and see them as proper 3D people. So I just see a flat side of them as they relate to my world/life, rather than understanding how they think and feel. But because he was one of my two best friends, and we worked and socialised and talked together so much, I got much more from him than I would from most people, and have grown to love and respect him (although obviously I don't respect his behaviour) more as I get more understanding of who he actually is as an individual, rather than just as someone who is involved in my life. IYSWIM.

OP posts:
TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 16:40

You need distance in the short term. You need a break from him, a chance to heal.

You need to do The Freedom Programme and you need ZERO contact with him probably for AT LEAST that time. (12 weeks, it's free, next courses will probabbly start in September)

This space/treatment/healing is for you.

IF your friends support YOU and don't tolerate abuse, they WON'T invite him out, will they? An abuser doesn't have a right to social gatherings with their victims.

They need to tell him that HE is on his own. That's what the research says, that he has to lose everything in order to shake himself awake and re-build his life.

By wringer, I meant ONCE he's done his ADAPT course or similar, and undertaken therapy to deal with the reasons why he felt entitled to abuse you, once he thinks he's ready, YOU then have to make sure that YOU don't just take his word for it.

I told you that you need to take a good year off from contact. You have no need to speak to him, you will only hamper his recovery and he yours.

TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 16:42

If you have something like Aspergers then you need a healthy human by your side, one that can try to understand the issues and difficulties you face, not take advantage of them.

Please trust me, please get yourself some proper distance from him.

I understand that you don't feel that you can turn your back and walk away, even though that IS the only thing you can (and must) do. I get that you are not ready for that thinking yet, but you need to mull all this over and realise that this is not a perhaps situation, this is a Imperative situation, you have to end this.

If it's meant to be it will be.

TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 16:43

Where are you family in all this? what is your relation like with them?

Gay40 · 17/06/2012 16:43

Is there a book called "For fuck's sake, stop letting tosspots into my life and get some self-esteem before they fuck some more with me and my family's heads and stop wanting bell-ends to change into decent men" because that's the one you need.

Gay40 · 17/06/2012 16:44

And the sequel "Silly selfish pouting man-children need to be told to fuck off" is probably worth investing in.

TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 16:45

No Gay, there appears not to be.... Shock Grin

Shall we ALL collaborate and write one? Grin

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 16:47

bogeyface Oh him as he is currently then, obviously I don't know what he could be like if he changed.

KirstyJC Sorry if you felt snapped at, I wasn't upset by it, I just predicted that people might say that sort of thing in response (not necessarily you), as I've read it on here before.

Twiggy71 I'm not going to counselling. I will read books and talk to friends and post here and enjoy my life with others etc. But talking therapy one-to-one like that just isn't right for the person I am. I can self-analyse till sunset, I don't need a counsellor to help with it. My sister is one, I have friends who are, and that style (well, multiple different styles actually, they aren't all CBT) doesn't suit me.

I am very aware of how much I have changed for others previously, and I knew this at the time. I'm still recovering from the second relationship as he still unfortunately has a hold over me in the form of our daughter. This time I was less willing to change just for his wishes (rather than for a healthy relationship), which is why it's come to a head sooner, as I didn't just go along with it for ages.

OP posts:
Gay40 · 17/06/2012 16:48

All this talk of courses, plans, lists, wanting to change behaviour WHEN IT IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN just makes my piss boil. Why why why do people put up with this utter nonsense????
Show the silly twats the dooor, find a decent bloke. There's plenty of them about. Stop being a magnet for abusive arseholes (third book)

TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 16:48

I've not even begun to discuss the damage you are allowing your daughter to take on.

What are you teaching her in all this? How on EARTH do you think you will keep her safe from abusers if that is all you allow in her life.

Get yourself solidly gripped, do the Freedom Programme, buy the books (READ them!) and STOP allowing anyone to treat you with anything less than love and care.

TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 16:49

Gay I have that book!

It's a HEFTY tome, but really good!

It works... if nothing else you can THROW IT at the fuckers! Grin

TheHappyHissy · 17/06/2012 16:58

I will read books and talk to friends and post here and enjoy my life with others etc. good start

But talking therapy one-to-one like that just isn't right for the person I am. I can self-analyse till sunset, I don't need a counsellor to help with it. My sister is one, I have friends who are, and that style (well, multiple different styles actually, they aren't all CBT) doesn't suit me.

Erm, well you DO need a counsellor, cos you are STILL making the same mistakes. Long term you need a therapist that is specialised in Domestic Violence and Familial Abuse. You are self analysing but not getting anywhere with it, you are still sucked in to the same ol same ol.

You can't do this on your own

I've only been in 1 serious DV relationship, 10 years more or less. I'm very flipping good at self analysis, I've done CBT in the past, and have spent literally MONTHS in DV-enforced isolation thousands of miles away from civilisation. I can think it all through all by myself. Since getting out, I've done the Freedom Programme, I attend a DV group AND pay for weekly therapy.

I'm STILL not 'cured' I am however setting healthy boundaries and demanding the respect of them. It will cost me my entire family, but it's worth it.

Today I had a conversation of over an hour by phone with my EX, it was OK, no anger, no upset, very constructive, but LOOK at the work I had to do to get there.

You have to work hard to heal, there is no automatic get better button. If you are not prepared to work AT LEAST as hard as this, you will be resigned to accepting the shittiest of crappy men and you will teach your poor DD to expect nothing better. You will watch your own DD drown in the misery of domestic violence.

It's THAT simple.

isthistheendthistime · 17/06/2012 17:10

TheHappyHissy I've done the Freedom Programme online, including all the exercises, read the book twice, and I've been to one of the twelve units in person. I felt like my daughter was disturbing people though, and she wouldn't be happy (nor would I) to be left in the creche yet, so I didn't go to the others.

So I have to tell all my friends about it? As not all of them know. And I doubt they would not invite him as they won't know that they shouldn't, having not read the books you have. Unless I tell them, and then won't I look like the stereotypical sour dumpee trying to get everyone to take sides?

So what should I actually say to him if he contacts me? Not to talk to me for 12 months and then only after that if he does X?

Actually he was the only person who's ever been any good at "translating" between NT and AS and vice versa for me. So he smoothed the path with various acquaintances. That's partly why I thought it could be a good relationship, if things were sorted. And he borrowed a book to read about it to understand more.

I'm fine with the idea of doing it now, I just worry about the details, like what do I do in X situation. I like to have everything planned properly before I do it so there is less room for something unexpected.

I've never been particularly close to my family, but that's why I'm moving, to be closer to them now I'm single and have a child. Then she will grow up knowing her cousins etc. I don't particularly want to talk to them about it, I'd rather rely on friends. When I told them my previous partner was abusive my sister said she wanted to believe me because I was her sister but how did she know I wasn't just being crazy or words to that effect. Which may sound heartless but I think she has AS traits too and was just being logical/fair.

Gay40 :)

OP posts: