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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Is it possible to get past this

341 replies

Orkward · 15/06/2012 12:06

I feel very confused at the moment. My dh is generally supportive and respectful and fine - but recently he forced me to have sex with him. It's never happened before and it was sudden and unexpected. He claims it wasn't what I say it was and that I could have stopped it if I'd wanted to, he thinks I made it into something it isn't but I can't seem to get past it. We've been together for a long time. I feel very confused about it all now.

OP posts:
OlympicMarathonNCer · 16/06/2012 14:23

I think the problem here is, even if Orkward could get out tonight she has to go back for the dc tomorrow.

Orkward, please please get in touch with women's aid, they will help you. I know you can't leave atm but you aren't safe.

There are ways to get you and your dc safe.

Are you worried about them?

Back2Two · 16/06/2012 18:31

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HelenMumsnet · 16/06/2012 19:04

Hello. This might be a good moment to remind those folks who aren't familiar with Mumsnet's We Believe You campaign about the most common Rape Myths - particularly the first one - and why we'd like to see them "busted".

Diggs · 16/06/2012 19:38

So Sorry to hear this Op , unfortunateley its not as rare as we might liketo think . The biggest risk of assault comes from our own partners or ex partners .

In my experience sexual abuse starts to happen when a person becomes desensitized to other abuses , ie financial , verbal and emotional . The abuser ups the ante . No abuse occurs on its own and i urge you to consider if he has been insidiously abusing you for some time .

Again , in my experience , once it has happened it will happen again , and again . My EXh had been insidiously sexually abusing me for a long time , ie , deliberateley hurting me , derogatory remarks , sulking when i wouldnt have sex with him ect . The actual assault seemed to come out of the blue , and like you i was in shock , but in hindsight it was something that was building up , he had already crossed several lines , but so gradually and slowly i didnt realise .

Its not your fault , and Your not overreacting . Had he done this to someone else he would likeley be sat in a cell now . When it happened to me i tried to reason it away and minimize it because the alternative was just too horrific to deal with .

If you want to chat fel free to Pm me x

Orkward · 16/06/2012 20:12

Can an abuser not know he's abusing sometimes- is it always a conscious thing? I can't match up the different versions of him. I can' t rewrite everything like this and undo all the things i thought.

Im sorry if i concerned anyone about tonight. But it really is fine.

OP posts:
Orkward · 16/06/2012 20:15

And thank you for all the posts and links and for sharing similar experiences i do appreciate it and im reading and thinking

OP posts:
Back2Two · 16/06/2012 20:19

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itsthequietones · 16/06/2012 20:33

I don't know really Orkward, and to be honest I don't know if it matters. The end result is the same - we get raped, beaten, reduced to nervous wrecks by the person who is meant to love us.

Most abusers can seem to control it to an extent, they can be lovely to others outside the home - charming and pleasant, they save the abuse for when the front door is shut. My exb did manage to change his behaviour while he was with me, he stopped hitting me after I involved friends and one of them had a word with him. Unfortunately the emotional and verbal abuse then went off the scale...

Please stay as safe as you can, do not let your guard down for a moment. I'm so sorry but you can't trust him, he will do anything to make you doubt yourself.

EmmaNess · 16/06/2012 20:37

He is being incredibly manipulative, and that is abusive in itself, never mind anything else.

Abusers aren't just nasty old men in dirty vests, swigging from a can of beer. His PR offensive, this 'being pleasant and warm to everyone' is his protection from the truth getting out.

And it's his way of convincing himself - maybe he doesn't know he's being abusive but that doesn't mean he isn't abusive.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Sad

OlympicMarathonNCer · 16/06/2012 21:04

tbh, he knows exactly what he's doing, why he's doing it and how to make you believe he's not that bad.

You have posted about long term systematic escalating abuse.

I have been through it and got away so I can see clearly how I was abused slowly and how he made me think he was lovely, even after beatings, belittlings, humiliation, [that thing]

He doesn't love you, he has was the perfect actor to get you to fall in love with him and he is slowly letting that act slip. It is very common sadly.

OxfordBags · 16/06/2012 21:11

But, OP, he DID know that it was abuse - he told you very matter-of-factly beforehand that he was going to do it, whether you liked it or not. That's not normal. That's abuse. That is rape. It's so obviously rape that MNHQ politely entered this conversation to gently point you towards understanding how and why it is rape.

A normal man with no abusive desires or tendencies couldn't even achieve a an erection in the circumstances you have described, much less go through with the entire assault. A non-abusive man would not display all the other characteristics you describe, ie being sexually pushy, being controlling, you walking on eggshells around his moods and temper, etc.

But the most telling thing that shows he KNOWS it is abuse is his reaction to you telling him how it made you feel. He didn't care, basically. If he was a decent man who'd made a terrible error of judgement in the throes of passion, etc., etc., he would be beside himself with remorse, self-loathing, desperate to make amends and so on. But your Dh told you what he was going to do, did it then treated you like you were a boring, deluded nag for trying to discuss it. He needs to make you feel bad and inferior for him to feel good and superior. This need will be manifesting itself in myriad other ways in your life together and will be polluting your DC too, please don't kid yourself about that.

You can chat on here for forever and a day trying to not make it rape and him not abusive but it won't happen because he is what you don't want him to be. So now you ask yourself, am I worth so little that I stay to be raped and treated like shit and do I allow my kids to be messed up too?

Orkward · 16/06/2012 21:13

No, that's not how it is. I know I sound like I must be in denial, but it isn't. I've been with him my entire adult life, since I was a teenager, and there have been problems and hard times in recent years, it's not always been smooth, but I don't feel like someone who has been abused for years, I can't make that make sense. There have been abusive things - I am just getting more and more confused by this, I feel like i'm going over my whole life and rewriting it and it's horrible, i keep having panic attacks and can't breathe.

Tonight though, I just said that I don't feel well, and I don't want to sleep with him. He's got a film and gave me a blanket, it is fine.

OP posts:
thornbury · 16/06/2012 21:23

Glad to hear you are safe, Orkward. Deal with the rest when you feel more able to cope with it.

OxfordBags · 16/06/2012 21:35

Sweetheart, there can't be two realities - 'I don't feel like someone who has been abused for years' and 'there have been abusive things'. Abuse doesn't mean that someone is constantly and systematically being awful to you. With many/most abusers, so long as things are going their way, they will be nice, or at least, okay. That usually entails their partner or their family having to watch how they act so as not to 'set him off' or make him mad, but the partner/family will see this as normal and not realise that it's abnormal. Non-abusive relationships do not include several incidents of "abusive things"; you can't have a non-abusive relationship with a bit of abuse, do you see? It's contradictory. Of course he is nice or not-horrid a lot of the time; if he was an out-and-out bastard every day, you wouldn't stay with him and everyone would see him for what he was and he'd have no friends, possibly no job and possibly his own family would have nothing to do with him.

There shouldn't be any "abusive things". You got together when you were young and impressionable and you've learnt that this is all normal and fine, but it's so not. Did you learn at an early age that you don't deserve to be treated respectfully? Would your parents be there for you if you seperated?

OlympicMarathonNCer · 16/06/2012 21:43

Orkward, you are going through a confusing time. Women's aid will be able to help you and they will understand that you still love him and at times he is a great guy.

You have taken a massive step forward by even asking for advice but for you and your dc and your dh you need outside professional help.

There are a lot of things you can do to move forward from this but you need to recognise the abuse and get help in rl.

OlympicMarathonNCer · 16/06/2012 21:47

Oxford, you'd be surprised how popular some out and out twats are, half the problem is the people minimising abusive behaviour and how manipulative abusers can be in dismissing their behaviour.

SparklyRedShoes · 16/06/2012 22:13

Orkward Lots of hugs love. Whatever you decide to do, stay or go, I wish you all the very best. Whatever happens, even if things seem to continue noemally, please at least get yourself some counselling. You deserve love and respect always, never abuse.

xx

rhoobabble · 16/06/2012 22:15

Hello O, I am very sorry that this happened. His arguments for the "act" fall apart as follows:

  1. He felt rejected - if someone rejects you would you force your attentions on them? No - they'd think you were mad.
  2. If you were being rejected, isn't it a good idea to find out why?
  3. Just because he thinks these are reasons for consent, they are his reasons: not yours and therefore not valid. It's pretty obvious he consented!
  4. Anger is usually not a part of loving, healthy sex, and its a bit odd to say the least that he thinks its okay to put over the impression that he is forcing you to have aggressive sex (but guess what - he hasn't told you it's just fun, you think it's rape!).

I am a total hypocrite though and have put up with shit for years.xxx

OxfordBags · 16/06/2012 22:31

That's true, Olympic. Sadly...

itsthequietones · 17/06/2012 14:39

Hi Orkward, how are you today?

Back2Two · 17/06/2012 19:50

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Orkward · 17/06/2012 20:39

Hello, I'm ok thank you.
Rhoobabble that makes a lot of sense. I'm reading lots of posts again, some of them very helpful. Mostly feeling very confused and very stupid, I think most things I'd say would make lots of you kind of cross with me.

OP posts:
CailinDana · 17/06/2012 21:19

Why do you think that Orkward?

doggiemumma · 17/06/2012 21:23
  1. you are NOT stupid!

Your husband has done a horrible thing to you and has been abusive and controlling for some time - but he is your husband and you love him, feelings just don't disappear overnight. You need time to process.

  1. Would not be cross with you, only you know what you want to happen now. As Back2Two says, we are not here to judge you, just offer support. Of course people WILL point out the obvious and be stern, but that is nto the same as judging.

Keep talking if it helps, we are listening xxx

OxfordBags · 17/06/2012 21:32

You are NOT stupid. You are really brave in facing all this and very clever to be working so much out. The reason why so many of us have stuff to offer is, very sadly, only because too many of us have been in abusive relationships and know all the signs and techniques, even if sexual nastiness wasn't part of the abusiveness. Did we work out it was abuse and leave the first time someone acted unacceptably? No, most of us didn't. And I bet it took some of us much longer than you to work things out and confront what was going on. Calling yourself stupid, etc., is another way of trying to make things your fault and they're not. If the things you refer to that you think would make us cross are things in the past that you're now wondering were abusive or red flags, then we will not be cross with you, we will cheer you on for your bravery. If it refers to ways you think you have created or caused shit, then we will show you how you're wrong.

We. believe. You.