OW perspective

[ListenBeforeJudging]

I'm fully expecting a flaming...this will be long.

I've spent many months lurking and reading the posts about all the affairs and suspected affairs and to be honest, it's helped me get over my own hurt. It's not often that the OW perspective is aired and I wanted to just let you all know that we're not all evil home-wreckers. There are always two sides to the story.

I had a male friend at work. We were good friends for quite a long time - nothing more in it. Then one day, out of the blue, he confessed that he'd fallen for me. I was gobsmacked, hadn't seen it coming and immediately distanced myself - I was angry with him as I didn't know what he wanted me to do with that information as a) he was married and b) I'd never thought of him like that.

I had a lot of time invested in our friendship and knew him well (albeit only at work) and knew he wasn't the typical straying type. I considered him a genuine friend so over time we talked it through. He confided that he felt that his marriage had broken down and that he'd been wanting to leave for at least two years (they'd been married for 8, had married young, no kids and it had descended into something platonic). He was terrified of leaving as he knew his wife was still in love with him and would be very hurt. His whole adult life, his family and all his friends were wrapped up with her.

For months we tried to put the situation behind us and carry on as normal but he told me that for the first time, he knew that he had to leave as if was capable of feeling the feelings he had for me there was no way back to fix his marriage.

We became closer and I started to develop feelings for him but still nothing happened between us. Then he told me that he was going to tell her that it was over. I was away and didn't see him for a week and when I came back he said he'd told her that he wanted out and that the 'wheels were in motion'. It was then that our affair began. We fell deeply in love.

With hindsight this was my biggest mistake and greatest regret. Long story short she was devastated, he couldn't go through with the pain he was causing her and for the next two years we had an on/off relationship (while managing somehow to have a consistent friendship) while he tried to extricate himself from the situation.

Then she found out. He cut me out of his life 'temporarily' while he 'sorted things out' (by this point we no longer worked together). I waited 3 months before seeing the light and telling him that it would never happen and that it was over. 4 months after that he left her. It was too late for us. There had been too much pain caused.

He was the love of my life. I still miss our friendship. I've felt the worst pain of my life over this.

My point to this story? I never planned to fall for him although I accept that I made some bad judgements and got in over my head emotionally. I've spent the last two years regretting what happened. I dream about his (now ex) wife often and want nothing more than to contact her to apologise for the part I played in her hurt - but I know that would just be indulgent and of no value to her when she's trying to move on.

My genuine belief is that if all was well in a marriage there would be no reason for a man to find solace/confidantes elsewhere. My advice? Talk about your concerns with your DH - before things get to the point that you can't communicate anymore.

OP, I have no emotional investment in this discussion, never having been cheated on, and never having been an OW, so I can be fairly dispassionate. I clicked on the thread because I've had several friends and relatives who have been the OW, and have to say that every single one of them said exactly the same things as you.

• The man was not the typical unfaithful type (i.e. this wasn't like "normal" infidelity, this was a special case)
• The marriage was unusually bad. Not "normal" bad like it had got into a rut, but bad in a special way. Maybe the wife was a complete bitch (stories of bitchery varied but all were extreme). None of them had had sex for years. They were under the same roof, but effectively apart already. "Over in all but name" cropped up several times.
• The man could stand it no longer, now that he had met the woman of his dreams, he could see what a sham he had been living. He said that he'd told his wife. (One of them moved out, although most of them didn't.)
• But then... something happened. There was a special reason why this grand romance could never be. Off the top of my head: he couldn't bear to be without his children (there were a few like that). Her mental instability/alcoholism/suicide threats forced his hand (couple of those). He - being basically a Wonderful Man - could not live with the guilt of having hurt her.
• And he returned to his wife, leaving the OW heartbroken, but still convinced that she was in love with a wonderful, good person, who had only broken her heart because of how wonderful and good he was. If it hadn't been for these very special circumstances, it would have been happily ever after for her and him anyway .
• There was one exception to this, but I will spare you the car crash that is the story of her dealings with a bunch of teenage stepchildren who hate her.

Like I said, I can only speak for what I've seen, and have no anger or heartbreak of my own invested in it. It seems to me that either 1)I have met a uniquely unfortunate set of people or 2)they all spin the same line.

DF, I put the wheels in motion, yes.

OK - I am going to wade in.
OP your 'genuine belief is that if all was well in a marriage there would be no reason for a man to find solace/confidantes elsewhere'
is completely misplaced and unsupported by any serious research into infidelity. Comforting as this belief may be to you, I suggest you read the literature.
Infidelity happens in all kinds of relationships - good, bad and indifferent.
Fucking up your relationship, or anyone else's - which is what infidelity does - means that you have fucked up big time. No more, but, certainly no less. The problem often is that the people left dealing with the fucked up mess are those who have been betrayed. This happens because those who are unfaithful reason as you have.
What is the problem with admitting that you have fucked up?

People admit to all sorts of fuck ups in all sorts of spheres. Unless, of course, they don?t believe they have ?

40 it's a valid question was your om married? It's one thing escaping a hollow marriage of your own that's reached the depths...but it's another entirely to involve someone else's.

As has been said the courage of your convictions...this is what you said in your first post...which incidentally was really offensive, judgemental, snippy and nasty, all the things you were ironically moaning about...

And I am not coming back to post again, I can't be bothered. This post is not intended to start another debate, it's just to stick my oar in, as do so many others. I have a right to do that. Respond how you like, or don't, it make no difference to me. I am off to get a life.

My first post in this thread was to you, as I thought the tone was unnecessary and you were venting your anger in the wrong place and that you had indeed come here for a heated debate and bunfight with certain posters.

Agree with Owls and that's been my experience with friends and colleagues too.

I really do think that when someone who is an intrinsically decent sort does something indefensible and bad i.e. be an OW/have an affair, it's normal to delude oneself with 'special reasons' for it.

So OW believe that the marriage they are intruding on must have been bad before their involvement and when they find out that was evidently not the case, they cling on to other reasons why the affair happened and he stayed with his wife in the end, when often the truth is that the affair happened purely because of opportunity and the marriage only got bad after her involvement in it. It must be much easier to live with oneself to believe that a man was unhappy and is only staying for the children, rather than he loved his wife more than her.....

And people who have affairs and don't regret them will always blame their marriages, their lovers, their circumstances etc.....it takes a brave person to admit that they had other choices, but feared being on their own too much to take them.

FWIW, the friends in RL I've known who've had affairs have been incredibly honest and have said it had fuck all to do with their marriages. They happened because their egoes were boosted by a willing suitor and after long marriages, they fancied romance and sex with someone new - and that's it. If only people were always that honest, instead of blaming everything and everyone but themselves for their choices.

Owls... that sounds like the Mumsnet line to me, all the usual rubbish. Not all affairs turn out badly you know... surely there are some where the two people leave their unhappy marriages and end up together, without it being a car crash

Stern... some affairs happen because the original marriage is/was bad and some happen for other reasons. There is no hard and fast answer to this.
So your RL friends who said it had 'fuck all to do with their marriages'... wanted some attention after a 'long marriage'? hmm. Of course it has something to do with their marriages

Callie, I have no idea. I haven't spent much time on MN threads about affairs, so I have no idea what the "MN line" is. If they're all saying the same thing, then perhaps it isn't all just "rubbish", eh?

And I haven't said anything about "all affairs". I said quite clearly at the start of my post that I'm talking about things I personally have seen. Every single time that I've seen it. No claim of universality at all, beyond that.

I'm sure that your own experience was different.

This by you 40, struck home...
I can't believe how vicious, vile and downright judgmental some posters can be. As humans, surely the reason we make mistakes is that we don't recognise them as mistakes at the time, because of whatever else is going on in our heads...A mistake is a mistake, but why are some mistakes 'okay' on this board, receiving reams and reams of sympathy and understanding from decent open-minded people, while other mistakes receive reams and reams of vicious bile from armchair experts with little better to do than automatically flame someone because she has admitted to an affair? Those of you saying 'it's simple, if you're unhappy, you leave', have no idea.

It seems to me that 'affairs' are demonsied on MN whatever the reason for it happening. If only life were so simple that we could say that any person, male or female, who has had an affair was an evil monster... they aren't. I bet there are very many on here who have had affair/flings/a one night stand but would never dream of admitting it. Apparently about 60% of men and 40% of women will have an affair at some point in their marriage. Sad but true.

Of course, there is the cake-and-eat-it-brigade who deserve all the bile MN can muster but life really isn't so black and white to assume that ALL people who have had or are having an affair are monsters. They are not.

Yes, I am an OW and before I get kicked, I feel somewhat justified. Long story... needless to say my OH relies on me (there is far more to this statement than anyone would begin to realise..) He knows I have had an affair, he chooses not to discuss it, he doesn't want to know anything else because he would rather part of me than none of me.

Well done 40 for putting a different perspective on all of this.

There is a lot of 'tone' on here that is unnecessary, so I will choose whether I want to respond to a post or not. I choose not to AF's questions.

The only point I really wished to make is that yes, we all make mistakes, at least MNers seem to have no disagreement on that. So why does it seem that on here, that if someone commits that particular sin of being an OW, that they are not welcome to post on MN, because they are a lesser human being, they have nothing of value to offer, are not allowed to offer insight, advice, anything? Why do so few venomous posters think they can't possibly learn anything from someone who has been through a certain experience? I have a very good friend whose OH went off with his OW eventually... she talks to me because she knows I have some insight into what has gone on, no more, no less. Plus, because she knows me in RL and is not a faceless poster, she realises I am not evil. I really can't be bothered with all this now, god knows why I logged on today. Enjoy your day, posters all....

Ditto NameChange

Oh off House of Plain, I'll do what I like. I received one or two responses that I chose to respond to, as I had time. I am so sorry you have a problem with that.

Calling other posters stupid... not a very mature response is it

Does anyone ever just think affairs happen because it is fundamentally against all of our natures to remain monogamous? So much pain, anger and hurt happens because of attempts to justify an entirely natural and occasionally overwhelming human need for sexual variety. Why can't we all just say - I've shagged my DH/DW for 25 years, I will go stark raving mad if I don't get a bit of variety. But that is viewed as so base/immoral/weak/pathetic that (men in particular) have to justify it by love. That's why men (and women, sometimes) in happy marriages are unfaithful. We just weren't born to monogamy and those that manage it do so by sublimating an awful lot of their natural instincts. Just a thought.

I agree with SoupDragon on this one; people who have affairs are self-centred and cowardly, and with AF that those who choose to have an affair with another also married are being deliberately destructive.

Stunnedandastouded... yes agreed. When I took my vows more than 25 years ago I never imagined I would be in this position and I will strongly defend my position.

OhChrist... easy to say that and it just seems that no-one seems to read the posts that say anything against what you say. Life is not so black and white as to label EVERYONE who has an affair as self centred and cowardly. Walk in my shoes comes to mind...

It's like an invasion. Of the OW variety, or a td day. Most amusing

OW invasion!
Agree with you Stunnedandastounded spot on

I hardly call 2 or 3 of us an invasion.. maybe some of our posts have hit home though.
I just don't like to generalise.. there are people out there who deserve compassion and understanding despite having had an affair.

Walk in my shoes

My sister walked in those shoes (whom I dearly love by the way) after 25 years she had an affair which ended her marriage. I knew she had been unhappy for some years but my heart still broke for her husband and I told her she'd taken the coward's way out of the marriage.

She was upset with me of course, but still came to live with me when she left him as she knew it was true.

Sometimes marriages, relationships should come to an end if people are unhappy but it is selfish and cowardly to fall into another relationship before properly ending the one that you, and the other person thinks, they are in.

Stunnedandastounded - yes I agree with you too. Sometimes an affair does a marriage a lot of good, a bit of variety being quite beneficial. Sometimes the people who have affairs do go off together and settle down happily - this happened to two of my close friends.

Hallelujah Higgle! I don't think a lot of the posters on here want to read about affairs actually ending happily though do they

Yes OhChrist... and this perfectly illustrates a point... the point being that the affair for your sister was the catalyst to end the marriage and of course her OH was very much the injured party.

However, my point is, not every single person who has had an affair can be demonised. There may be a myriad of reasons as to why it has happened and shock horror it might be the the person who carried out the affair isn't a vile disgusting monster.

But I am with 40 here... there is no point in trying to say any different to the posters on MN, I am banging my head against a brick wall and shall bow out.. just bear in mind that there will be some on here who keep well away from this thread because they have had an affair and wouldn't dare admit it on here. People deserve compassion for mistakes they may have made and for perhaps a reasonable reason as to why it happened.

Nope, nothing has hit home with me. Being in a marriage where neither of us has had an affair. What a bizarre comment.