Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships Number *9*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Oh Today and fool, your poor pets . My NSDH isn't nice to our gorgeous little cat either, whenever she comes for cuddles he pushes her away. I've started telling him how abusive he is to her and he is actually trying on this point, but I do have to remind him EVERY time. Once, a few months ago, she jumped onto his lap and he forcefully pushed her backwards in the chest so she fell off his lap onto the floor. I admit it was one of the only times I've ever completely lost it with him, I saw red, she's my baby and was abused in her last home so I'll do anything to protect her. I got right in his face, nose-to-nose and screamed at him that if he ever did anything like that again I would make him pay. I'm a bit to say I reacted like that now, but I would do the same again if it happened now.

Interesting about the driving thing, I also never drive if NSDH is in the car, unless he's been drinking, as he makes me so nervous. I'm actually a good driver, but a quivering wreck if he's sat next to me.

Sorry Today, my exam is tomorrow morning, but I appreciate the thoughts all the same. If you could think of me for a bit tomorrow as well I'd be grateful .

DD is now poorly so NSDH is having to take tomorrow off, which he isn't happy about. If he thinks I'm not going to my exam he can fuck right off.

On that note, back to studying for the final push. I'll report back tomorrow evening on how it all went. Thinking of pinks circle of confidence. Love to all :)
Hello to the new folks.

No problem nini I'll keep fingers and toes crossed for you

Thanks today

Just to say...

None of us believe we are married to abusers...we all believe it is us..until something happens to switch the lights on.

The frog analogy is a good one. Abuse nearly always escalates and we almost never see it (until we are out maybe).

No abuser only abuses his partner. If you have children then they are also abused either directly (as in my case) but more usually indirectly. They are taught contempt, poor relationship skills and self blame. They see the 2 people they love most in the world acting in abusive ways/being abused. it unsettles and harms their sense of self, security and actually inhibits their emotional development, sometimes also their intellectual development.

Staying together because of the children is a poor, poor reason to stay in an abusive relationship(nip over to the stately homes thread if you doubt any of this or look at the book When Dad hurts Mom by Lundy Bancroft and jay Silverman).

You may be very very surprised at how others see your OH. Some people will have recognised at least some of what is going on. If you swallow your pride and come clean about your life you will almost certainly find people who have Seen that things don't quite add up....no I didn't believe I would either (my OH is charm personified, well known, gregarious, life and soul etc etc, me I am the quiet one) But they did.

Once out you will be amazed how much more energy and time you have to cope with life...they eat you up these men....in every way.

Good luck Nini, you've worked so hard with all this going on too. Hope the questions are good ones for you! xx

Fool, I think my trouble is that none has ever seen that side of him (except the DCs), it was always so subtle that even now I doubt myself.

But from the reactions I've had on here to some of the things he's said and done, I know in my head that it was unacceptable, but in my heart I can't square that with the feelings I had for him - I wanted to please him, spend time with him, for him to love me and want me - why would I do that if he was abusive? It just doesn't add up! It takes some getting used to, the realisation that your husband isn't who you thought he was.

Thanks for that wisdom, fool. :)

And thanks today for your useful summary of what happened - yeah, when you put it like that, even I can see that it's not right. :o

Good luck Nini! Will be thinking of you and sending you exam-winning vibes :)

ExP came and picked up the rest of his stuff tonight; I'd planned to spend the whole evening in the pub if necessary but he only took an hour. I plan to delete his number from my phone shortly. I have just celebrated by making a key lime pie and eating a bloody great big slice, just because I can.

My shoulders have relaxed just a little bit more. I felt briefly sad but then realised it was pointless because there was no way it could ever have worked - for the simple reason that he never thought he was doing anything wrong. When someone admits they take out their resentment on you, there is no point in staying involved with that person any longer. He never once said sorry, never once apologised and begged me to stay. He just showered me with passive-aggressive text messages, exactly the way he dealt with his ex-wife.

ExP was a scary driver. He thought I didn't like him driving my car (I offered to drive everywhere) - I didn't, but it was mainly because he was so damn aggressive when driving. I recall one incident where we were in his van heading up a single-track road and a pair of cyclists were coming down the hill towards us (so their right of way). Instead of stopping and letting them pass, he drove right at them and made them jump into the hedge. His window was down and as we passed the woman said "I thought you were going to hit us". He justified it to me by saying it was a pain to get his van going again once he'd stopped (??? What about if it had been a car? What about the highway code FFS??). His kids were in the van with us for another similar incident and they said to me afterwards that they were scared by the way he drives. There's simply no excuse, though he had plenty. I used to dread going out in the van with him.

The tipping point for me was when he gave me the filthiest look while I was trying to make pizza for his children on NYE. I remember walking down the street after a doughy disaster to buy pizza bases, saying things like "you total, utter cunt, I fucking hate you" out loud. God knows what the neighbours thought. Later he had the audacity to have a go at me about where the pizza toppings came from, because they obviously weren't organic or local enough. This is the same man who later bought his kids diet coke and cheese straws if he couldn't be arsed to cook them a proper meal.

Cor, getting it all off my chest tonight!

It took me till May to actually finish things because we'd only just moved into our house in December and for some misguided reason I thought I'd ride it out until he decided to move out to his smallholding when the growing season began in March, then things would grind to a halt on their own. The final final straw was him rolling a spliff in front of me having promised me two weeks earlier that he'd given up because he was in love with me and didn't want to lose me (in the meantime I'd found out that his tin was missing and so had my suspicions that he'd done nothing of the sort; he knew I hated it). He told me he was moving back up to the smallholding to get things going and I said I saw no point in carrying on as it was a backward step. He walked out there and then and I haven't looked back.

Sounds like he did at least one thing right then Kernow! Maybe there should be a secret code to spot a wanker early on - watch the way they drive. I've heard you should check out how they treat a waitress to see what their attitudes to people and women in general are, but my X was always polite to waitresses.

In the car he was a sexist racist arsehole (guessing the gender and colour of whoever was in front of him by how badly they were driving I was always so pleased when it turned out to be a middle aged white bloke!)

I think it's probably a very good indicator. Mind you, I am not always a picture of calm when driving, at least when I'm alone. If I have company I'll usually rein in my road rage but I certainly would never do anything more than have a bit of a shout at someone with the windows firmly closed!

He scared me because there seemed to be no rational reason for him to behave the way he did. It was almost like he was trying to teach the cyclists a lesson for daring to be on a road he was using. I remember wishing they'd taken his numberplate and reported him.

And yeah, if any man of mine was horrible to a pet, that would be it for me and them. I can't stand cruelty to animals.

Good luck with the exam today Nini.

foolonthehill, nicely summed up. I'm definitely that frog. Except sometimes the water cools down until its simply balmy and perfect and everything is lovely. But those times are pretty much always tainted by my certainty that it will get hot in there again and my anxiety about this can often actually trigger an incident as I mention how difficult it is for me to enjoy anything without experiencing doubt that things will get nasty again. :(

Have to say I am a bit confused about whether FWH is EA/ VA or just a fucking alcoholic bully, or if he is depressed and all these things are the result of this. Am coming to the conclusion that it doesn't actually matter does it, the results are still causing harm to our family. .

Oh by the way, he has admitted to depression several times but won't see anyone about it or evaluate taking medication to deal with that, apparently that would be using a crutch, that was acceptable for me but not for him, big strong idiot man that he is.

I went to a support group session a few weeks back, for partners of people with addiction issues. It was an eye opener. The psychologist running it told me that I am co-dependent and gave me lots of brochures on support groups to help me deal with my problem. That just made me confused initially, and now cross. It's not my issue FFS! But what really helped was listening the stories of others and realising that there is NOTHING that anyone can do to help or change the individual, no matter what their issue. The most positive stories were those who were the cruellest to their partner/ child/ brother/ sister/ mother. Literally locking them out of the house in the snow, leaving them, taking their children away etc. I have a lot to think about.

Could someone do my job and mind my kids and run my house for a week or so, so I can get some time to think? Thanks!

Just to say it's not so much about the actual driving, as I'm pretty OK at driving - I've been driving for 25 odd years, virtually never had an accident, and I taught him to drive - so, perhaps he knows there's little mileage in criticising this - though he does tell me to use 5th gear, get in the right lane etc.

But the car stuff is just general stress and agro really. It's like he's got me in a confined space where I've got no escape and he's making the most of it. It's probably exacerbated by the stress of going somewhere as a family - though why that has to always be so stressful I really don't know. Even a trip across town to the swimming pool often excalates into madness and aggression from him. Sometimes we've just got in the car and he starts having a go at me for sitting and breathing the wrong way ! Saying "What's wrong with your Mother ?" (ostensibly to the DC's) virtually before I've breathed a word.
If I do look a little stressed or nervous is it any wonder given this form and the history of our experiences in the car ? He's also very critical and aggressive generally when driving to other road users.

I've already decided and said I won't discuss anything substantial in the car anymore. And think I will insist we get a SatNav / just go and choose and buy one myself. Hoping reducing the stress could help - I do find navigating especially difficult as I have attention deficit traits - anyway it is something I find challenging. You'd think after twenty years together a partner could begin to take that on board and work together as a team, rather than at best be completely blinkered about it, carry on blaming you for something you can't help, at worst find your Achille's heel and constantly use it against you.

Juggling, "You'd think after twenty years together a partner could begin to take that on board and work together as a team, rather than at best be completely blinkered about it, carry on blaming you for something you can't help, at worst find your Achille's heel and constantly use it against you"

I felt like this too, its almost as if it was a totally 'new' relationship to him, he hadn't learnt anything about me or how to treat me to 'get the best' from me over 14 years. I guess that's where the emotional void is so evident, as anyone else would pick up on how you are feeling, and what they already know about you and make an educated guess about how best to make you feel happy.

He honestly didn't seem to 'get' me at all and the only thing that those years together had achieved was a lot of baggage and more reasons to say "well there's no point even trying because whatever I do (ignore you, criticise you, tell you its just a joke and you need to lighten up) nothing helps".

Even after I spelled out to him that if I'm upset you need to talk calmly, give me a hug, apologise, don't get cross with me for having emotions etc - he still said "I don't know how to deal with this".

Yes. The lack of movement towards understanding each other and making the relationship work (over such a long time span) is quite depressing really. He still says loads of stuff that he knows I'll hate, from the trivial to the deliberately hurtful. There's so little adjustment on their side isn't there ?

And finding navigating/ working out a new route difficult is such a specific thing - why can't he understand that unless one of us (ideally him, because not something he finds difficult) puts in a bit more effort and preparation it's just not going to work. There's no point getting angry with me about it - it's not going to make me able to do it any better ! The only way I could do it better would be to do it differently eg. get a SatNav or look at the route together the night before etc.etc ! Arrggghhhh !

forsale ^Am coming to the conclusion that it doesn't actually matter does it, the results are still causing harm to our family^ this is so true.

We can torture ourselves for along time trying to work out what exactly is wrong with them, what causes it etc. but at the end of the day if they are not going to be part of a normal respectful loving relationship then you have to protect and look after yourself and the DCs first of all.

The point is that they are not working to keep you happy. they are not part of a team...that is how you think, not how they think.

......it is not just neglect of you that they practise....the Achilles heal is noted and known about, but instead of working to make it better they use it to keep you where they want you.

i am sorry but for the abuser it really is all about them in their heads, not only do they not learn how to be a couple, their aim is completely different and based on self serving patterns.

Nini good vibes going your way...may all your favourite questions come up!

It's quite a big jump though from thinking they're just not very good at being a team to wondering whether they have a different agenda isn't it ? I think I need to do some reading to try to understand what's going on here. The book "Should I leave ?" sounds good, looking at different possible reasons for behaviour you don't understand in them. Also thinking of getting "Why does he do that ?" - seems widely recommended

Personally I would start with "Why does he do that"? for insight...it covers more bases but they are both good.

by the way the link for the bonus materials at the top of the thread have now relocated to here www.shouldistayorshouldigo.net/.

Have just ordered both books, alongside a few on growing up for my pre-teens.(Also recommended on MN on another thread)
Hopefully will help us all

Think I'll be ordering some books as well. Thanks for the recommendations.

BTW I think it's "Should I leave him?" (in case anyone's looking for it)