Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships Number *9*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Vicious Geese and ticket inspector uniform at the ready here for you net.

hope its all going ok net

Also here net, hope you're ok :)

And please will someone give me a kick? Apparently I didn't show enough appreciation to NSDH for the takeaway he bought last night as our anniversary meal as he's now not talking to me. Snide little things (like not closing the curtains when the light's on as he knows it annoys me) have crept back in. This is usually the point in the circle where I would stop being annoyed at him and grovel so he would talk to me again, but I'm determined not to do that this time. Must be strong. Help?

Thank you thank you thank you...

He asked if I wanted to separate. I said yes...then is there anything he could do to change things, he could (after much, we will have much less money) concede to getting in another person at work so he was less tired, his routines he can't change. I could do whatever I want with teh house if it made me happy, even though he won't like it he would be happy if I was happy round the house. Pointed out that would nto make me happy doing the house all my way...that's just plain wrong. Its like its got to be him winning or me and there is never any common ground. He says we are 'diameterically opposed' bloody mathematics term. Anyhow he says that I am to tell dc as he is still wanting to resolve things, its me wanting to end the relationship and he will go to estate agent in morning to find somewhere to live as he does not want to be in a house where someone finds it undesirable to be there (or said something like that). He didn't cry. He says he still finds me disirable and attractive. I asked how when it is clear he does not respect me at all, so how could he or love me. I also said I tried years ago to resolve this and he didnt want to listen and it was all too little too late for me.

I quail at the thought of telling dc...all blame on me. I suggested to him we do it together to reassure them that we were both going to be there for him but he said it was my decision etc. I didn't go into detail about how his being a 'teacher' all the time drove me crackers or always watching 'educational' programs on tv...or 'educational' books or it was a waste of time.

He did say the atmosphere is poisonous between us and it was not good for dc.

I'm not feeling anything. I just think I have spent a month building up to this (the start being not coming on holiday with me and girls as it would be 'too stressful until they are older'. Now I'm remembering why I don't want to be with someone so miserable)

He is being so reasonable. I feel so unreasonable...

I am not imagining all this am I? I'm not being really unreasonable being unwilling to work on how to resolve this? I just cannot change him as a person. I said he had stayed the same and become even more set in his ways and I had changed. He agreed I had changed a lot. He did not say in a good or bad way . Is this really happening? I must be a heartless bitch, felt nothing when I spilt with my last ex of 8 years...struggle to get by the 8 year mark for some reason...I think its the limit my unhappiness can take. My god if he goes I will have got rid of all the abusive people in my life. No parents to pull me down, no sister, no h to make me feel I'm always wrong. It all seems unreal. Am I really doing this? Slap needed please.

Well done for getting through that assault of crap from him Netcurtains.

Only on planet manipulo would be be classed as 'reasonable'

After all of these years suddenly he's decided he's 'trying'?

And look how this oh so impressive 'trying' translates to everything being classed as your fault and responsibility.

'you tell the children as its all your idea' - FFS!

Ticket to the far side of fuck in the train compartment with the needle point beaked geese for him!

Sorry, not very helpful right now my ranting, just at you having to deal with this crap.

Back in a bit, cat fighting outside

I always thought that ex and me being diametrically opposed should be a strength.

(it just means on opposite side of a circle. The diameter of the circle, its width as it were, is the distance between the two of you. It's the furthest apart you can get, but at least you are facing each other full on.) He may just mean you are poles apart, which is a similar way of saying much the same thing.

Being different can mean that you complement each other (not complete each other though, that' s the trap of thinking it is possible to find The One )

The danger is when one person thinks they are right all the time, and when they refuse to make any effort to see it from the other person's pov.

You're not being unreasonable net, he's being a FW. He's not trying, he's making things as difficult for you as poss. I'm sure the more experienced ladies will be able to break it down better than I can, but from what you've said he's trying every trick in the book - blaming you, threatening to move out, making you tell the DC, trying to confuse you with ridiculous language.

Big hugs, stay strong. So for you!

net oh my goodness, he is an exact replica of my FWH - maybe they were separated at birth! What he is telling you is textbook I had all that, and that his life would not be worth living etc etc then threats about the children. How quickly did he stop being apologetic and start turning everything around onto you and making everything your fault? I totally understand what you said about the, 'only one person can win,' thing, seeing everything in black and white. Mine did exactly the same thing, about the same issue, knowing that I would not do it anyway (because I used to bend over backwards to compromise). Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book at the top of this thread? It explains practically every mind-twist that they do perfectly and kind of relieves you of your irrational guilt in a way.

Oh thank you all of you lovely ladies. He just seems V BITTER now. I made mistake of wanting to look at the property he wants to rent on the 'net...'thats none of your business now, what does it matter to you what it looks like inside, your not going to see it'. Actually I have a right to see where my children are going...don't I?

He said it was none of his business BUT I was going to have to find a way to finance the car now (he pays for petrol through business), I was going to have to work to a budget now he was going to have to provide money for two households, no more big cheques. He also made a comment about him working and babysitting children from now on. I did pull him up and pointed out they were his CHILDREN!!!

Just sat feeling all twisted up in side, not crying, don't feel a need too...been trying to do this for so long I'm not quite taking it in. Think I'm a bit scared to contemplate the next step, telling the dc...and that kitchen roof needs replacing...oh crikey. One step at a time. Look at his house he wants to rent . Oh and he said that he owns a proportion of the house. That will be the next thing.

Read Lundy :) that's what got me set off!!

and breathe and put onto auto pilot all normal functions.

Deal with emotions later as and when needed

and DO NOT believe a word that this man says. it IS NOT your fault he cannot make it better by doing everything your way for a day . you HAVE TRIED and you are not failing. He is despicable for pulling out and pinning the blame on you.

You HAVE NOT made anything up and now you can start to reclaim your life...now stop wondering what he is doing (it's an addiction...break it) and start focussing on you and the DCs.

Life is about to get better but there might be a bit of sticky stuff to get through along the way.

Nini you are spot on and obviously despite being a relative newcomer have been learning fast!

Somewhere up top on the links is a reference to FOG which is the Fear Obligation and Guilt that FWs play on to manipulate you. When you start asserting yourself they panic and either respond with a charm offensive (promising all the changes too late) or with a torrent of abuse. Or with both on the same day which is really confusing! Your FOG draws you back into the fray.

I think it helped me to try to become a spectator in my own life. To observe him without engaging. But frequently I couldn't help getting drawn in and becoming a gibbering sobbing mess again and feeling worse.

Net you have been really brave. It doesn't matter what he says now. It is all just jibber jabber. Try watching his lips move but ignore the content if you can. look at his expression or his hand movements or something.

It may be an advantage to tell the children yourself, My FWH made me tell them I was leaving and I was able to explain how unhappy I was and how much I loved them all without him blaming me or twisting what I said. He went on the offensive afterwards with all our family and friends explaining how hard he had tried to make things work and showing what an all round wonderful guy he was. Hmmm.

Keep posting. There will be many twists and turns to come!

I will read that link, thanks Lemon :)

One thing you can try is to think what you and he would look like if we women on this thread could see you both on CCTV ( - or possibly ). This is a dissociation technique. Just do a quick cut-away as it were, and then back to 'being you' sort of thing - reassociate with yourself.

Of course, FWs can't keep up the Mr. I'm so Reasonable crap for very long, so I wouldn't worry about that net
In fact, as Fool says, try not to worry and particularly not to feel, try to do things you believe are right and move concretely in the direction you believe in - however small your steps may be, they are steps.
Well done!

Your both talking so much sense. YOu know I thought of FOG today (due to being on stately thread) and could not remember what it stood for! Thank you. Will not listen to him now. Good idea. And being on Auto piolet.

Trying to breathe normally. How will I sleep tonight. How will I tell the dc? I don't want to draw them into anything. Its not their fault, tho I think EX h blames them for disrupting things...I don't know if I'm imagining it but I feel he feels they are part of the problem. He never said it. But for that babysitting comment ffs!! His own children!!! There again he feels like he's been put upon for last 6 years...so bitter. Okay will disengage and stop wondering what he is thinking!! Your right it is addictive!

Must go to bed now. Can hear dc2 moving round a bit.

Don't feel like I will be able to unwind. Feel very tense and acid tummy now...dc both at sch and pre sch tomorrow so will ring a solicitor. He didn't mention them but I feel the need to protect my rights.

Is this really happening...been together 8.5 years. Why did I have children with him? I knew he was a bit, you know, wrong but convinced myself that he was right but he was right in the wrong way, he was just like my dad. I was selfish having children, he put pressure on me and I didn't stand up and say no, I went along with it as the easiest course. I should have taken the hard road and left him. But I thought he was what I wanted. But I do have two gorgeous children and hopefully dc1 and I can get close again...but guessing she will just want daddy not me :( I just hope things are not ruined between us for good. He really has a hold over her :(

Okay need to be positive. At least I can disapline them my way now. And I can be the mum I want to be, not hold back and be the mother he wants me to be. I can be happy round the house again, and not care if it is not tidy. We can eat in living room without it being a major issue. Go to bed and get up at anytime we want. Eat what we want without major lectures on the unhealthiness/teeth rotting food we are eating. No fears of going on holiday and him being a damp squib. Or going to that godforsaken place he used to love and want a holiday cottage at, yeah!!! I always dreaded he would go ahead and do that...couldn't think of a place I would want to be at less. More wardrobe space. Hideous chest and chest of drawers will go. I can move my things from the garage and the childrens toys (that are left) back into house without fear they will be burned! Pets will not be ignored by him anymore or treated abruptly/roughly. No more having to watch his favouriate films over and over again. No more boring history programmes (I like history, but not to watch and relax!!).

Sorry more thoughts....no more screwed up towels, no more getting the dc to swallow toothpaste as he can't be bothered to take them to the bathroom to swill out their mouths (not meant to swallow toothpaste!!!), we can have a relaxing bathtime (he puts them in 6 in of luke warm water, washes them, then straight out again all in 5 min flat), no more feeling I have to gird myself up to having sex with him because it has been 'too long' since we had a 'normal man wife relationship' ie sex, no more pretending I want to have sex with him. We can have tea when we want, go out when we want...

really have to go now. dc2 moving round again.

Thank you as well :) small steps...will remember. night all. first day of new life tomorrow. still scary!
for being on here helping me stay focussed, I really really appreciate it. This is such a big decision and my head is so spaghttified I needed your help...and will need it. Hope I can help you all too when I get as wise :)

Net You are describing paradise Planet Normal.
Go for it!

net it doesn't matter so very much if you can't sleep as long as you get some horizontal rest with your eyes closed for a while. You mind may possibly be full of thoughts going round and round. This is Ok, just let them do that.

If you find you want to get out of bed for a while, and maybe to talk to somebody, you could go on MN and look at the most recent posts, last 15 min. You may find some irrelevant but light-hearted talk, or a post Not About EA on which you have some info to offer. Or you might find someone who just wants to talk - and you can always start a thread on Chat just saying you want to chat or can't sleep, and I bet someone will come along :) I have made a couple of friends this way. And Chat threads vanish automatically after 30 days (unless they get into Classics).

Some of the Classics threads are excellent, have you read any of them?

Good morning net and great big (((hugs))) to you.

Well done for getting through the onslaught from your NSDH, and a very, VERY big Well Done for saying 'yes' to the question of separation. It is a very hard thing to do, and you did it! So often they turn on the charm, tears, begging and manipulation, and too often we go running back to them. This must have happened to me 3 or 4 times, so that when I finally left for good he didn't believe I was really gone. Well done, you deserve a pat on the back. And your DC will be fine, if they're anything like my DS's age (5) then they'll cope admirably.

It's entirely unfair, but your STBX will start using the DC against you, in fact it sounds like he already has. Mine does this with me, and all I can say to myself is 'he's a little boy, not a weapon'. Unfortunately FWX doesn't see it that way. Just be prepared is all I'm saying.

Your two paragraphs above that start 'Okay need to be positive' and 'Sorry more thoughts' shows how you are already starting to feel free, if you start doubting yourself, just read those paragraphs again. Those two paragraphs sum up everything it is to be free!

Well done, I am so very happy for you, and very soon you will be happier than you can remember for a long time!

Thank you arthritic, gawd normal would be good...

Thank you Pink, only just read this :) I slept a bit, dc2 came in with me and we had a snuggle. When I did sleep I dreamt of an alarm going off and I had to find it, but couldn't. Woke up to find an alarm was going off somewhere...!

Still feel sick, grey rainy day here (thanks weather ) and h and I did exchange brief word here and there, he even said he was going which he hasn't done for a while. No kiss thank goodness and he took the picture of the property he wants to rent from the paper. Its a carbon copy of his other two houses...tiny two bed.

Feeling sympathetic to him this morning. He explained last night how due to how the family business works he has to literally tear himself to bits everyday as everyone else is too old to help. He's in an impossible situation to get out of. Unless he took a massive pay cut and did a packing job or some other menial labour. But at least there he would have back up so he could be off sick when he needed to recover from ill health. Must get a grip. I have asked him/told him to do something to change the situation, that we can do without all the money, better he was happy and rested then rich and knackered. Then it has come to this.

Feel like I lied about who I was at the start of the relationship. I was getting over the last one still (to someone v nethandial) so it was bliss to be seeing someone with an interest in the world around them...allowed me to share, but then as time went on I lost interest, its just not really me...I care more about the dc than the world around me now, politics, history etc just not interested as I am about things to do with dc. And I like a bit of reality tv because on a night my brain is frazzled from dealing with dc all day I just want to sit down, not have to get up, and be entertained without engaging my brain. Is that a bad thing? He made it feel like it was and he didn't understand my need to just completely veg on sofa.

There is so much to process. Just keeping hold of memory of how I felt on sunday when he spoke to me, the lack of love and affection except for the last couple of weeks and distance he has put between me and dc1.

Thank you for listening. HOw is everyone else doing? How far along are you all?

Thank you Todaysagoodday like your name. Will try to think that every morning, including dull grey and miserable ones like today. WIll tell truth bout ages of dc 6 and 3, 6 v attached to h. And volatile with me.

Thank you for all the well dones, I need to hear it...was a big moment saying yes to separation, had to leave a good gap from him saying it to me saying it...thinking 'if I say no now...'

I feel so heartless I'm not feeling any grief. Maybe because I've been thinking about life without him intermittantly for the last few years.

Anyhow better go school run time, dc1 cardy in tumble drier hope it drys in time!

Thank you all again

I'll keep chugging on. Positive thoughts, don't look back, I can do it. And hope mate doesn't lay on the 'you shouldn't have been with him in the first place'. Doesn't help. There again she's never been at the recieving end of his 'discussions'. Ah well, maybe it was just an off the cuff comment. Will try not to get into discussion about it, she and I have a right laugh together and I will lean on other friends that understand a bit more.

Wow net like the adage goes on here - are you me? Sounds like we're married to the same man!! I'm not as far along as you, havn't had the guts to broach the subject of our relationship with my NSDH yet, and he likes to pretend there isn't a problem (he's still giving me the silent treatment today). Very proud of you for having the strength to say you've had enough. :)

Know exactly what you mean about being married to someone with an interest in the world around them - my NSDH likes nothing better than to sit in front of the TV watching history programs or depressing current affairs and literally wring his hands about the state of the world. It's not that I don't care, I just have so much on my plate I can't fix the world's problems as well . Watching the same (old) films, the same TV programs and never understanding why I want to watch someone a bit more lighthearted or new - The Wire was a great programme but after seeing every series about 5 times I have got fed up with it!

Anyway, keep chugging on as you say. And absolutely find friends who will be more sympathetic. :)

watch *something, not someone. That'd just be voyeurism

net i hope you find comfort in your friend today.

i have only told one friend, and i know when i tell others how bad things are it will be a big shock. as we look like the perfect couple. i think i will only tell people when i have made the decision to leave.

dh is annoyed as i have refused to go on hols with him this year (i do not want the responsibility of going on hol with a 9month old baby, if there is a bad argument i have nowhere to go and i don't want to be in that situation with a baby) so now we will go on separate hols and the whole thing is just getting very complicated.