Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

I don't think the arguments about "keeping sober, keeping safe" are correct. By teaching girls to do this you are teaching boys that drunk girls are fair game.

The first time I was raped I was drunk, it was someone (older, I was 17) from work. I snogged him, he had nowhere to stay, I said he could crash with me, I told him explicitly that I did not want to have sex with him and that it was only a place to sleep. I woke up with him raping me. My mistake was not being drunk, it was trusting him not to rape me while I was drunk. If I was sober I would have made the same decision because I knew him from work and felt bad that he couldn't get home.

The second time I was raped was when I was homeless. I used to hang out in bars and try to find men who I could crash with, one of them felt I "owed him", again I was drunk, I half knew it might happen, I really needed somewhere to stay. I didn't know what else to do.

The third time I was staying with someone regularly, sleeping with him periodically, I was seeing him, I liked him, he was a violent alcoholic, he raped me while he was drunk, I was sober, he went unconscious half way through and I had to push him off me. Again I had nowhere to go.

The fourth time I had discovered my XP was cheating (again) and refused to have sex with him, he raped me, I was sober. I got pregnant. Again trust.

Alcohol is not the issue. It is trust as garlic says. Men that rape women they have been drinking with have often been buying the drinks too. They put work into the trust, they are manipulative and entitled.

Is that everyone's argument or just empusa's?

I think you're incredibly naive if you think that. It should be that way but it isn't.

Blackout - ok, especially for you:

If a rapist is around Are people saying that you are just as safe on your own as in a group and just as safe when you are sober as when you are drunk?

I agree with empusa.

Bumbley what you are failing to understand is that men who are looking to rape will engineer it. They will separate you from your group if you are with one, they will buy you drinks, put things in them, make sure they are doubles, make you trust them or feel sorry for them. No-one really has the presence of mind to entirely protect themselves from this.

" By teaching girls to do this you are teaching boys that drunk girls are fair game."

No, you're not. Anyway, as I said earlier, there's a message for the boys as well - don't rape.

But you are because you are teaching them that preventing rape is a joint responsibility.

It's such a terrible way to see men as well. , you know? That if you're pissed then a man can't help himself and he might have to rape you.

I don't see men that way. Not at all.

Only rapists who will rape regardless of the circumstances. Because they are RAPISTS.

Who know? Maybe the rapist is part of the group, could be more then one rapist? How would you define a group? 3 people, 20 people.

Drunk or sober doesn't come into it.

Offred, sorry that you've gone through all that :( Other women have been raped in different circumstances though - I am just giving a few examples. Not trying to cover them all. I think it's important to increase awareness of other things too - such as spiking drinks. Would someone argue against the idea of you not accepting drinks from others/only drinking out of bottles that you could cover while you were holding them/not leaving your drinks down to reduce the risk of someone putting something in your drink or would you say there's no point because if they want to drug you they'll do it anyway?

''No, you're not. Anyway, as I said earlier, there's a message for the boys as well - don't rape''

No, we need to expose rape myths and telling rapists NOT to rape. I'm just as uneasy as telling girls to keep themselves safe as to treating boys as potential rapists.

Offred, I don't think 'responsibility' would be the right word but I think it makes sense to attack it from both sides because not every boy/man is going to listen :(

Kiss, no one is saying that at all. No where have I said that a man will rape a woman simply because she is drunk - not true.

Again! The victim blaming, 'If only you didn't take your eyes of your drink' or 'If only I didn't accept that drink of that guy who I thought was alright'

How about telling rapists not to drug women!

Ok blackout, and how do you suppose we identify these rapists? I'm pretty sure they don't wander around with horns growing out of their heads so that it's nice an easy to identify them, round them all up and give them their 'don't rape' talk.

All the time that the onus is on us, as women to protect ourselves against rapists, the onus is OFF bringing rapists to book.

You've got to wonder why the same sort of excuses and victim blaming doesn't happen with any other crime.

No blackout, I'm not saying its a woman's fault she got drugged but are you dating she shouldn't bother taking precautions against it?

Saying* not dating

Paedophiles, for example. Those children shouldnt have been being so childish, and then the perpetrator wouldn't have had temptation placed in his way.

Vile isn't it? Well the same thing applies to rape victims.

Stop doing it, stop making excuses for rapists.

I agree kissmybaps. You can't tell who's a rapist and who isn't and so you can only take one of two routes either don't trust anybody or accept that most men are not rapists and you can't tell ahead of time which ones are.

One man I met took me in let me live in his flat, have his bedroom for months till I got sorted out with a proper flat and never looked at me funny. I didn't behave any differently around him than anyone else.

"All the time that the onus is on us, as women to protect ourselves against rapists, the onus is OFF bringing rapists to book."

Why? What's wrong with trying to protect ourselves as well as trying to prevent it in the first place?

I am not making any excuses for rapists Kiss. Why would I?

I'm so sorry offred.

I can't prevent someone from raping me.

''Ok blackout, and how do you suppose we identify these rapists? I'm pretty sure they don't wander around with horns growing out of their heads so that it's nice an easy to identify them, round them all up and give them their 'don't rape' talk''

Well a really good start is busting rape myths and all the victim blaming. For rapist to be condemed by society as a whole.

You are bumbley. The reasons you are doing that is beyond me.

Probably because it makes one feel safer if you believe that you can prevent yourself from getting raped.

Bumbley - that might be what you mean but I am convinced it will be heard as "girls need to take steps to protect themselves" by some boys who interpret that as drunk=fair game.

My xp recently told our son a story about fighting which he thought had the valuable life lesson "you don't hit girls" my son heard "boys are fair game".

''Why? What's wrong with trying to protect ourselves as well as trying to prevent it in the first place''

Again you can change the way you act, what you wear, stay sober, stay in a group but none of that matters if you are with a rapist!!!