Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

I regret lowering myself to be honest. I don't post all that often but I've never given a reason to have my posts deleted before.

I'm not sorry for what I said. But I regret the way I said it. Not for bumbley's sake, for my own.

Ah, but that's untrue - I remember your posts. You didn't quote any of the personal attacks against you.

It's you that's twisting things.

That was to Bumbley.

I didn't say I quoted them (another twist) but I replied to them.

"Yes means yes"

You weren't deleted for replying Bumbley. You were typing posts which were victim blaming - loads of posters could see it - we weren't all arguing for argument's sake - we were arguing against your posts.

bumbley - but your argument is that being drunk makes you more vulnerable to rape. That was your only argument. Despite this being a rape myth and thoroughly debunked on this thread you kept saying that. Now you appear to be back tracking and saying that being drunk makes you vulnerable "in general" And as has been pointed out - lots of things make you vulnerable. Old people are vulnerable, people with MH issues are vulnerable, black people who choose to walk in certain places are vulnerable. None of these people will have a problem with their vulnerability unless they come across someone with criminal intentions.

And you have deliberately fudged offred's point that the rapist may use drink/drugs to get a victim in a place where he can rape them.

I've asked for them lemarche.

Portofino:

"t your argument is that being drunk makes you more vulnerable to rape"

WRONG. This was not my argument. How many times do I have to say that? I've explained why that is not what I'm saying several times today alone. Read those posts because I don't see the point in repeating it all again.

Bumbley - that is exactly what you said - you're denying it now because you know you're wrong - but it is what you were arguing at the start.

Haven't fudged it - she said what I've been saying. Being drunk makes you vulnerable - some rapists will take advantage of vulnerable women.

Actually running, every time that someone has accused me of that since the very beginning I have corrected them becuase it is not what I was saying.

being drunk is NOT the thing that makes you vulnerable though.....it is what you and lots of others (to be fair though) think so I CAN understand why you are so pigheaded about it. But you have been given ample explanation as to why this IS NOT true.

Bumbley - here are a handful of your posts that weren't even deleted - and it's pretty clear what your argument is:

Sat 02-Jun-12 16:30:33
Agree with corgoto and lueji. I don?t think either of them is saying that it?s your fault you were rsped if you were drunk but I do think alcohol makes you more vulnerable.

Sat 02-Jun-12 17:45:24
I just think that if there is a rapist around a drunk person is more vulnerable than a sober person.

If you are not drunk you are less vulnerable.

Sat 02-Jun-12 16:47:44

If there is a rapist hanging around waiting for his victim who is he more likely to pick - the sober women walking home in a group or the woman staggering home drunk by herself? Are you really saying that everyone is at equal risk in those situations?

Sat 02-Jun-12 16:56:54
Message deleted by Mumsnet

In none of those posts are you talking about being vulnerable in general - you talking about rape and being in the presence of a rapist.

I only did the first 3 pages of the thread.

Bumbley - offred said that some RAPISTS will drug women or get them drunk with the full intent of raping them. It is not the same thing at all.

returning to say one final thing on reflection....the trouble with this thread of debate is that .......most victims of crime, i am sure, reflect on the "what-ifs" so the last thing that someone who suffered rape needs is another thread analysing the what-ifs for a situation where they suffered but did no wrong.

So discussing risk mitigation with my daughter is one thing but over-analysing here is another as it could easily make someone who suffered the crime think that it is yet another public discussion blaming them

There are women who have sat and drunk one wine too many in the safety and privacy of their own home, and who have been subequently been raped by their OWN PARTNER. Now this scenario is statistically much more likely than being raped by a stranger in the street. So was it the wine that makes that woman vulnerable - or that fact that her partner chooses to RAPE her?

Portofino you make a good point

I will be telling my daughter how to conduct herself with her partners but that cannot insulate her from being attacked.

Or you go on a date with a nice new man. You can choose to stay completely sober or drink more than you intended. Either way, you might really like him and let him drop you home at the end of the evening. You might invite him in for coffee. The only thing in this situation that makes you more vulnerable to being raped, is if he happens to be RAPIST.

I will be telling my daughter how to conduct herself with her partners

How should she conduct herself?

MNHQ, thankyou for taking the time to make a clear explanation between the "you're stupid" and "that's stupid" query.

PlentyOfPubeGardens- not sure how this helps but essentially zero tolerance on signs of violence/control freakery.

As you can see above the point I was making was ...."that cannot insulate her from being attacked".

Yes running, I think it's pretty clear what my argument is. I'm not sure what you think it is though. Are you getting confused between being drunk making you vulnerable in general (which I did say) and being drunk making you vulnerable to being raped in general? (which I definitely haven't said)

Porto, Offred said:
" rapists can use drugs and alcohol to make you more vulnerable (they are in control of this). You can be more vulnerable generally when very drunk e.g. Passed out." she accepts that being drunk makes you vulnerable. some rapists will take advantage of that vulnerability.

Vulnerability does not imply consent/responsibility or blame. So whether it is a stranger or your 'd'p/h taking advantage of your vulnerability it is not the victim's fault.