Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

Dear God! Feminism might not be dead but is sure is in the intesive care ward.....

Un-so-f*cking-believable!

Did someone just imply that if the number of drunk people went down then the number of rapes would reduce even slightly? !!!

WT-aping-F is going on here? is this being troll hunted???

Would you like to go to those countries where more than 90% of women have never tasted alcohol and alcohol is limited for most of the population anyway and compare them to the rape stats here where most rather lovely looking youngsters are blathered more than twice a month and see which ones have the higher stats? I am from one of them.

Are you guys seriously implying that in those countries where the population see homosexuality as a handicap that lesbians should reduce their activities to reduce their vulnerability to rape?

Are you guys for real? or just in for the shock factor? or just so narrow minded that whatever looks real must be real? forgetting that this is a power game and things are being made to look real to lure you into that comfy feeling?

And these are the educated masses?

This is too scary to be real.

Being drunk can make you seriously suspicious and paranoid of everybody too larry. I'm probably more easy to manipulate when sober because when drunk I'm more likely to be suspicious and more likely to kick you. I have a tendency for kicking when drunk...

Offred,
"rapists can use drugs and alcohol to make you more vulnerable (they are in control of this). You can be more vulnerable generally when very drunk e.g. Passed out."
I'm glad you are finally admitting that you are vulnerable when drunk. I have not said that it makes you more vulnerable to rape generally - I have specifically said several times that I am not saying that. (take note running) I'm glad you can see there is a difference but I'm not sure why you can accept that when you say it yourself but not when I say it!

Bumbleymummy,
You are also more vulnerable when physically disabled. Like me. Guess I'm just gagging for it then?

Hrh, "all you can say is if you weren't drunk you wouldn't have been raped." I have not said that anywhere. That poster said that she blamed the rapust completely but she said that she was more vulnerable because she was drunk. Admitted vulnerability is not admitting blame becuase no matter how vulnerable you are no one has the right to take advantage of you.

"Admitted vulnerability is not admitting blame"

Whether you mean it to come across that way or not, it does. When you are talking about someone's choice being the factor that makes them vulnerable then you are saying they should have chosen differently. Therefore giving them some power/influence over what happens.

Empusa,

Wearing red and/or being blonde/brunette or whatever other comparison you have made does not impair your senses like alcohol/drugs do. They aren't the same thing at all.

Geekette, someone (lueji i think) at the start linked to a study that discussed alcohol in relation to attackers too and how they use it to excuse themselves etc. I think that might be part of what intripilcate was touching on in her post.

Squashed, not sure how you would come to the conclusion that your 'gagging for it' or why you think that is relevant seeing as I've said countless times now that just because you are vulnerable it doesn't mean that you deserve it/are to blame or (as you are implying) are looking for it.

The problem comes, bumbley, when you make the leap from "drunk women can be more vulnerable" to "so women shouldn't drink". By placing the onus of responsability onto the victim, you detract from the crime, and give the criminal an out by placing blame upon the "mistakes" his victim made.

Empusa, I think thats the way you're choosing to interpret it. It is possible to admit you are more vulnerable in situations without saying 'so that means it's all my fault'. I think it is Offred who has pointed out a few times that a rapist may exploit that vulnerability - eg. By being the one who gets you drunk in the first place or by taking advantage of you when you are passed out.

Nutella, Where did I say 'so women shouldn't drink'?

Good point. You can say that Muslims are vulnerable to racist attacks in certain parts of America but you would be crazy to say that Muslims shouldn't go to certain parts of America. Vulnerability should not be confused with blame. I could be vulnerable and not even be aware of it.

I think the problem is that with rape some people blur vulnerability with blame and responsibility which is offensive to those affected and to all of us actually

"You can say that Muslims are vulnerable to racist attacks in certain parts of America but you would be crazy to say that Muslims shouldn't go to certain parts of America. Vulnerability should not be confused with blame."

Exactly Tdada. I think that's what some people are struggling with and are therefore getting offended because they think one automatically implies the other when that just isn't the case.

Whilst I think that some people are more vulnerable in certain situations it is not as predictable as we think. The other problem is that people/the press imply that victims should have known better and attribute/imply partial responsibility to the victim which is what offends us all.

I can see two sorts of societies proposed here: the first where women are afraid all the time of rapists jumping out from alleyways ('cos that's how rape happens obv [hmmm]). So, they don't drink, they cover up everything, they don't talk to men outside the home.... hang on, there ARE societies like this. Is that how you want to live? Is that how you should have to live? Does rape not happen there? (hint: you read that link in the end didn't you?) And what happens to the women and children who are raped in these cultures where it's all about preventing rape with the restricition of the potential victim's freedoms, are they vindictated or villified? (hint: the latter.)

The second culture: one where women live and are free, where they can participate in Slutwalk, where they fight for their right not to be raped, where they say there is no excuse. Where the message is loud and clear - it is not the responsability of women to prevent attack by modifying their non-criminal behaviours, restricting their own freedoms, and living in fear, it is the responsability of men not to rape. End. Of.

Anyway. I know where I'd rather live.

Well nutella, is anyone saying they'd rather have the former? Of course not. Does rape still happen in the latter? Yes and until the answer is no then we are still at risk.

On an aside I really did not like the word 'slutwalk' AT ALL.

Bumbley - because if you are bringing it up on a thread called "being drunk doesn't mean you deserve it" there is only a point to speaking about it if you mean being drunk makes you more vulnerable to rape. And besides you are back pedalling now and have clearly forgotten what you have said. You said you'd teach your boys not to rape and your girls not to drink to excess.

Can you please understand that blaming a victim is different to "victim blaming".

Think a lot of them don't understand rape tbh. They don't get the power part, think it is about sex.

This. And perhaps they shouldn't keep banging on about something they have NO CLUE about.

Taking the Muslim/racism analogy. Say someone is viciously attacked in a racist attack. Do you afterwards say: "well it's not your fault. I'm not blaming you....BUT you could have gone to a different place. I wouldn't be stupid enough to walk there."

Thats because rapists and victim blamers turn that drunk vulnerability into blame and responsibility.

"she was drunk, she shouldn't have been"

"I was drunk, it wouldn't have happened if I was sober"

"He was attacked because he was muslim, he shouldn't be a muslim"
"I was attacked because I was a muslim, I should change my religion"

Teach boys that sex has to be consensual and teach my daughter that she should be free and liberated but that there are a few nasty boys out there and so she must be conscious to be in control. And if she were to have the misfortune I wouldn't be saying that you should not have put yourself in vulnerable situation. More likely that I castrate the man concerned.

Basically zero tolerance to rape must be the message directed at boys

Slutwalk is a global campaign promoting the empowerment of women, supported by men and women.

Very uncomfortable with victim blaming or blaming victim in any shape or form. A bit like blaming the Muslim for walking down the wrong street. Basic human right

she must be conscious to be in control

This won't help her. It will just make her blame herself if it happens.