Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

So the determining variable is the presence of the rapist, would you agree?

Cailin, lots of things. People seem willing to accept that they are more vulnerable to lots of other things when drunk (falling over, getting injured, saying/doing things that you wouldn't usually do eg. Telling your boss that you fancy him and trying to kiss him in front of his wife!) but apparently if you're in the presence of a rapist you are no longer vulnerable when drunk. It doesn't make sense but that is what people are continuing to argue.

Bumbley - have you read plenty's post?

Unless you can come up with a mighty good retort to that, then you are wrong. Sorry, you obviously don't like being wrong - it must be really annoying for you.

But please stop perpetuating victim blaming rape myths - it is what you're doing and it is why you have had many posts deleted on this thread.

Obviously caillin, I've said that about 20 times on this thread. You aren't going to get raped if there isn't a rapist there are you? Regardless of how drunk you are.

So what's the point in even mentioning being drunk?

Aha, bumbley's finally got it. So why do you keep posting that being drunk makes you more vulnerable to rape? When it doesn't, and is victim blaming?

If you are in the prescense of a rapist you are vulnerable.

Bumbly have you ever been raped or sexually assaulted?

If you are sober and out with drinkers/non drinkers you are still capable of being involved in fights, car accidents, getting knocked down by a car.

Because it was mentioned in the OP cailin, it was a point being discussed. My first post was actually agreeing with others who said the same thing - that alcohol makes you vulnerable. No
One said anything about that making it the victim's fault but that's the conclusion that people jumped to and I've basically been arguing against that ever since.

Running, I haven't said any of the things in plenty's post so I'm not sure how I can be 'wrong'.

Sorry xpost

Running, I've said that about 20 times already on this thread. It's nothing new.

Obviously caillin, I've said that about 20 times on this thread. You aren't going to get raped if there isn't a rapist there are you? Regardless of how drunk you are.

You do realise that that's what people have been telling you for more than 20 pages?

So can you please tell me, as obviously there's a huge misunderstanding going on and every other poster on the thread apart from a few earlier is misunderstanding you, what has a woman being drunk got to do with it?

Yes, hrh of course you are still at risk of those things - I didn't say you weren't. Just as I haven't said that being sober doesn't mean you aren't at risk of being raped.

I'm a karate brown belt, very fit and strong and trained in self defence. My DH isn't a big man, he doesn't lift weights, he isn't much taller than me, isn't a trained fighter but he's a builder. There is no competition in sheer strength - if he caught me by surprise, came at me from behind etc I wouldn't have a hope in hell of fighting him off whether I was drunk, sober or somewhere in between The first thing I learned in defence training was to shout and run because up against a fully grown man who wants to hurt you, most women do not stand a chance.

Bumbly, you have said that to protect yourself you stay sober.

You have said being drunk makes you more vulnerable.

Unfortunately both those points are not true and damaging to you/rape victims/other women.

Why should you spend all your drinking time looking over your shoulder?

Yes, Walter I am aware of that - I kept agreeing with them but they just chose to ignore that. I'm glad you're finally admitting that there may have been a misunderstanding. I'm not really sure how else to repeat what I'm saying to explain it to you though. I've been saying the same thing the whole way along so if you didn't get it then, how is saying it again going to help you?

Stop insisting that women have a duty to protect themselves and insist instead that it is men who must ensure that their behaviour does not make that protection necessary

I think that it is fine to teach your DDs about what might make them vulnerable, self defence, karate all that good stuff etc. However, to an innocent victim going about normal life, pointing to their vulnerability can appear very insensitive...altho' I am sure that bumbleymummy had no such intention - I can tell by her name that she doesn't mean to offend.

Oh, another point. I was once punched in the street by a stranger. Broad daylight, doing my shopping at the local shopping centre. Despite my martial arts credentials, do you know what I did to the woman who did it? I stared at her and eventually called the police once I had gathered my wits. The element of surprise is the killer. I fight in competitions and can definitely handle myself tben. If i had been drunk on a night out, I might have punched her straight back. You could be sober as a judge, armed to the hilt, a professional boxer, expecting trouble around every corner. Until somebody attacks you, you have no way of knowing how you will react in an attack situation. It's a mistake to think that being sober and going to a self-defence class will protect you.

Plenty, I'm not.

I was being sarcastic. I'll ask again though, minus the sarcasm.

If being drunk has nothing to do with it, why mention it? I realise it was in the original article, but I'm curious as to why you're peddling it, if you don't think it's relevant?

And TDada being drunk DOESN'T MAKE YOU VULNERABLE ffs!

...I meant an innocent victim who was raped whilst going about normal business having a drink or whatever is likely to be offended by anyone who says "but if only you took a taxi, or if only you didn't have a drink or if only you got x person to walk you home".

Note that the taxi driver or x person could be the rapist. Or that you could stay home sober and your neighbour could force his way in.

TDada but that is a false sense of secruity

Bumblery ''People seem willing to accept that they are more vulnerable to lots of other things when drunk (falling over, getting injured, saying/doing things that you wouldn't usually do eg. Telling your boss that you fancy him and trying to kiss him in front of his wife!)'' Again falling over is an acident, the last one is making a twat out of yourself - Its nothing to do with rape!!!

Walter, if being drunk doesn't make you vulnerable then why does the MN rape myth buster talk about 'being vulnerable' in relation to taking drugs and alcohol and saying that it doesn't imply consent?

Thank you Tdada (I think )

walter - there are situations where rapists young men target drunk girls. I have seen this myself. Have intervened in one instance.

This has already been explained - Take your own advice and read the fucking thread!!!