Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

999 replies

OhNoMyFanjo · 02/06/2012 11:25

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 04/06/2012 09:48

I'm not ignoring you but I do have to go. Real life calls!

runningforthebusinheels · 04/06/2012 09:54

Bumbley I think you're really enjoying yourself here, aren't you? Having a lot of fun winding up rape victims?

You keep banging on about these two things:

  1. Being drunk makes you more vulnerable to rape. (Hint - it doesn't)
  1. You are not victim blaming. (Hint: you are)

Everyone else can see the complete contradiction of your two points - why can't you? I think you just can't admit that you're wrong. Well you are wrong.

You are completely ignoring all the excellent posts here explaining to you why being drunk doesn't make you more vulnerable to a rapist. Only being with a rapist makes you more vulnerable to rape.

CailinDana · 04/06/2012 10:01

So why even mention it bumbleymummy? What you seem to be saying is that you're more likely to get raped if you're drunk. There's absolutely no evidence for that. Then you go on to say that it makes you more vulnerable. Again, no evidence for that. Then you say it doesn't matter if you're more vulnerable. So why even mention it? You seem to be arguing in favour of something that is completely meaningless.

CailinDana · 04/06/2012 10:03

What I'm trying say is, why even mention that women are more vulnerable when drunk, unless you're trying to imply they shouldn't get drunk?

runningforthebusinheels · 04/06/2012 10:03

I'm just aghast at your posts Bumbley - you can't just say a sentence and it remain in isolation you know - the words you say have consequences.

If you tell your daughters that being drunk makes you more vulnerable to rape - you are not only WRONG - for the very good reasons posters have typed over and over and you have ignored - but you are telling them that by getting drunk they made themselves more vulnerable to rape. You are telling them that it was partially their fault for getting drunk when they knew it made them more vulnerable to rape.

That is not a healthy message to send out to women - unless you want to damn all the women in society to never drinking alcohol, taking a taxi, going out on their own, going on a date, answering the door etc etc etc. Just in case that makes them more vulnerable to rape.

runningforthebusinheels · 04/06/2012 10:06

Bumbley: "I'm not ignoring you but I do have to go"

Take your time. We don't need posters like you perpetuating victim blaming rape myths which are damaging to women. Hmm

HerRoyaleHoighnessDirona · 04/06/2012 10:09

Tada I know karate and self-defence and know how useful they are for confidence and for fighting. But again I think thats a bit of a red herring.

How does karate help if you are asleep, or have your back to them?

It is great to empower your dd's but the everyone is saying is these "self-protection" factors are no guarantee.

Offred · 04/06/2012 10:17

No they are not arguing that you are not vulnerable. They are arguing that you are not more vulnerable to rape. I've said this several times, you are wilfully misunderstanding it.

geekette · 04/06/2012 10:34

Bumbley: I agree with the points you are making about it not being the victims fault - I have said that all along.

You do not. You are saying the victim is never at fault and I am saying the victim is never at fault AND nothing she did made her (take your pick) easier to rape, a rapist's target, more vulnerable to rape than another woman, exploitable for sexual gratification.

That vulnerability could be the fact that she's drunk and walking home alone. I'm not saying it's the reason, I'm not saying it's her fault - I am saying that being drunk is something that makes you vulnerable and some rapists may exploit that. Obviously they do or else women would never be at risk walking home alone and drunk.

You are being short sighted. You are not at risk because you are walking home alone drunk. You are at risk because there is a rapist on the path you are taking home. If there is a rapist on that path, you are already at risk. You are saying, not only am I at risk but now I have given him a clear path to rape. No you haven't. The risk has not increased. he does not care if you are drunk, alone, with guard dogs or a chastity belt. You are already at risk because he is calculating what his next course of action could be. He is not looking out for how you are protecting yourself but your mannerisms and anything he can exploit. What he eventually exploits becomes the vulnerability and NOT the other way around.

I'm not really sure I agree with this idea that you know exactly what goes through every rapist's mind either tbh. I'm sure that some probably will think the way you say but others may be opportunists and others may think another way entirely. I don't think there's 'one way' that every rapist thinks.

I am not second guessing or profiling the rapist. I am profiling the act itself. The rape. That is easier for me to understand. Disclaimer, I am no expert. The act, according to current definitions : man/men VS. woman and I personally add the touch of sex and power. To me the last two define rape more that the man vs woman bit. You are talking about how the woman became exploitable and I say she did not become exploitable. What was exploited is built into the act and not enabling the act. No sane man exploits a woman and we should not take it for granted that in this day and age, most men are sane!

Anyway, time for brekkie and signing off to enjoy life and defy potential perpetrators :)

bumbleymummy · 04/06/2012 10:52

Oh my goodness. I am not saying ANY of the things you are accusing me of. This is just so ridiculous and pointless. You seem to want to argue these points so you are suggesting that I'm the one making them. While I think it's great that you are raising awareness of rape myths I don't particularly like it bring at my expense thanks very much.

bumbleymummy · 04/06/2012 10:58

Running, saying it makes you more vulnerable is not saying that you are partially responsible because

Being vulnerable does not imply consent.

CailinDana · 04/06/2012 10:59

So are you just saying "You are more vulnerable to rape if you are drunk" bumbley? Is that the sum total of your argument?

bumbleymummy · 04/06/2012 11:03

No caillin, because that suggests that I think that you are more vulnerable to rape when drunk full stop which is obviously not the case given the huge proportion of rapes that happen to women who aren't drunk.

CailinDana · 04/06/2012 11:04

Ok, so what's your argument?

waltermittymissus · 04/06/2012 11:10

So what ARE you saying Bumbley?

BlackOutTheSun · 04/06/2012 11:35

So what are you saying bumbley

bumbleymummy · 04/06/2012 11:37

What I've been saying the whole time and what I've said about 10 times today alone including answering your post directly on the previous page Cailin. Asking me the same question over and over isn't going to change my answer and me answering it obviously isn't going to change your interpretation of what I'm saying so this is all a bit pointless really.

runningforthebusinheels · 04/06/2012 11:38

It's nothing to do consent Bumbley - consent is a whole different topic.

What you are doing is victim blaming.

Many many posters have tried to explain this very simple premise to you - being drunk does not make you more vulnerable to rape, being with a rapist does. Being drunk or sober is nothing but a red herring and is victim blaming since the victim is likely to blame herself for getting drunk in the first place.

CailinDana · 04/06/2012 11:39

I honestly don't know what your answer is bumbley. Could you give the time stamp of the post you're referring to?

trixymalixy · 04/06/2012 11:40

bumbley are you really the sort of person who will do anything, say anything not to be wrong?

I think you have hit the nail on the head there waltermitty.

CailinDana · 04/06/2012 11:41

"People have been arguing themselves blue that you are not vulnerable - I disagreed" - is that the answer to the question bumbley? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting but I would read that as meaning that being drunk does make a woman vulnerable to rape. It would be great if you could clarify what you actually mean, seeing as you said earlier you don't mean that.

BlackOutTheSun · 04/06/2012 11:42

Back tracking now?

CailinDana · 04/06/2012 11:48

Sorry, reading back I see that it's more accurate to say that your argument is "being drunk makes you more vulnerable." More vulnerable to what?

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 04/06/2012 11:48

I really like that 'this is not an invitation to rape me' site

I especially like the 'what you can do' section on the 'drink' page. Have you read it Bumbley? ...

Challenge the notion that a woman who has been drinking must share some responsibility for an assault against her ? drinking is not a crime ? rape is

Attribute responsibility for rape to those perpetrate it, not to those who they assault

Don?t think in terms of analogies ? a woman who has been drinking is not ?an unlocked car?, ?a purse sticking out of a back pocket?, or any other imagined incitement to criminal activity ? she is not a potential crime scene but a woman, and entitled to the same freedoms and respect as any man

Reject any suggestion that alcohol consumption somehow muddies the waters around consent: on the contrary ? any question that a woman?s intoxication poses even the smallest degree of uncertainty about her capacity to consent should deter any effort to claim or secure it

Stop insisting that women have a duty to protect themselves and insist instead that it is men who must ensure that their behaviour does not make that protection necessary

Ask yourself some questions

Why is it up to women to remain vigilant and keep themselves safe when it is so often men who make them unsafe?

How can we justify a double standard where drink operates simultaneously as something that makes women vulnerable but excuses the actions of men who assault them?

Why do discussions around so-called ?date rape? drugs so often focus around chemical compounds such as Rohypnol and GHB and routinely overlook the most prevalent drug of all: alcohol?

Do we really think that women who have been drinking should be less entitled to the full protection of the law (and less entitled to full compensation when that law is broken by someone else)?

bumbleymummy · 04/06/2012 11:51

Repeating the same accusation over and over isn't going to make it true you know.

Cailin, that's the one I was talking about. Vulnerable if you are in the presence of a rapist but not vulnerable to being raped in general.

Swipe left for the next trending thread