Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

I think the key thing is that we will only be able to say that we have an equal society when women have the same freedom as men to drink, jogging at night......

I think that there is the possibility of opportunistic rapists but it is a bit like telling black/Asian people who live in BNP area to keep their heads down or not go to the pub to reduce chance of being attacked?

I agree with the others who said this thread is valuable because of the number of people who have challenged views like those of bumbleymummy. Her views aren't all that rare unfortunately - I've had people in my life try to find reasons why I was responsible for the rapes I suffered too, including one counsellor who told me I was raped as a child because I was "too trusting."

Blaming a victim is a shameful act!

My nine old daughter is karate brown belt and hopefully will keep going as I would like her to give her a better chance in a tough situation.

If we take the blame the victim logic to the extreme we could say that any girl who is teetotaler and hasn't been taught martial arts or self defence is asking for it? Surely a ridiculous argumemt

Should be "Who isn't teetotal and doesnt do martial arts is asking for it".........that would be a ridiculous argument, surely

HRH, sorry to hear what you went through.

Geekette, you're still accusing me if saying things that I haven't. I agree with the points you are making about it not being the victims fault - I have said that all along.

Also,

"He targets A woman. A particular woman and then he looks for some vulnerability which he can exploit, rely on or act upon. "

That vulnerability could be the fact that she's drunk and walking home alone. I'm not saying it's the reason, I'm not saying it's her fault - I am saying that being drunk is something that makes you vulnerable and some rapists may exploit that. Obviously they do or else women would never be at risk walking home alone and drunk.

I'm not really sure I agree with this idea that you know exactly what goes through every rapist's mind either tbh. I'm sure that some probably will think the way you say but others may be opportunists and others may think another way entirely. I don't think there's 'one way' that every rapist thinks.

Anyway, so much for not getting drawn in again!

The profile of rape as a crime is well known, like murder it is not a crime of opportunity. The power play not the sexual act is what the "point" of it is.

So bumbleymummy are you ok with the fact that what you say could potentially really upset rape survivors?

Cailin, I don't want to upset anyone. It shouldn't matter how vulnerable someone is because they are are drunk, they still should not be raped. It is not their fault.

So why even mention it?

Offred, surely that's because there is the alternative 'manslaughter'. Rape is always going to be rape.

What we're trying to tell you Bumbley is that it doesn't matter how drunk someone has got themselves, normally a rapist wants to be involved in the process of making you vulnerable. They don't just swoop in and prey on drunk girls for sexual gratification.

Manslaughter is not a crime of opportunity and actually even less so than murder. Sexual assault is the lesser version of rape. I don't get your point.

Rape is specifically being penetrated by a penis. If you are penetrated by something else than it is sexual assault. If a woman gives a man unwanted sexual attention without his consent that is sexual assault. Sexual assault can be serious, rape is just a technical term for a particularly type of sexual assault.

Offred 'normally' - not always. Even you are allowing the possibility in there.

Can you see how ridiculous it would be to say you are going to stay sober to keep your wits about you so an opportunistic murdering stranger doesn't see you as vulnerable and use that to their advantage, swoop in, overpower because you can't fight back (spurious argument anyway) and opportunistically murder you because you were vulnerable?

Offred - thanks, but I do know what rape is.

Where did I say you should stay sober? I said you are vulnerable when you are drunk.

I don't know why you are saying "even" me there. I've always said you cannot exclude the possibility of anything and people do not fit neatly into little boxes. It doesn't prove your point correct in anyway because it is not conclusively impossible that there may be an opportunistic rapist in the world.

So according to you, you are vulnerable when you are drunk. So what? What's the conclusion of that?

You certainly haven't given the impression you know what tape is Bumbley!

Tape? ha!

Also haven't said murder was opportunistic. See, this is how these discussions get out of hand.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying bumbleymummy but you're not answering any of my questions.

Offred, where have I given the impression that rape isn't being penetrated by a penis?

Caillin, sorry for not answering you within 2 mins of your posting!

That's pretty much it! People have been arguing themselves blue that you are not vulnerable - I disagreed and 20 pages of 'discussion' ensued where people interpreted that as me saying that it was the victim's fault.