DH doesn't like me keeping a journal

[bertiebassett]

Have namechanged for this one...

Bit of background: DH and I are going through a bad patch. Lots of issues (his stress, our communication, my stubborness etc). Have had 6 Relate sessions so far...progress is slow.

Anyway, I keep a journal. Have done for years on and off. I like writing down the things that matter to me and keeping track of them (DCs milestones, my thoughts and emotions, realtionship stuff, my acheivements etc). It's also a way of me making sense of my thoughts IYKWIM. I'm not always great at communicating my thoughts to others and I find it helps to reflect on what I'm feeling.

I've never really talked about my journal until recently (although I'm pretty sure DH knew I kept one!). Something came up in a Relate session where he denied having said something to me a few months earlier, that I knew he had (because I'd written about it at the time in my journal). He got a bit angry that I suggested he said it (not that it was anything particularly horrid!). I didn't make anything of it at the time but a few days later I asked him about it.

It was a bit tricky to bring it up...but I mentioned my journal and said (as nicely as I could!) that I'd written about my thoughts following this thing that he'd said a few months beforehand. I'd brought it up it in the Relate session as I felt it might be relevant/important. Did he really not remember saying it (which was absolutely fine after all we all forget stuff don't we?) or had he just not wanted to talk about it in the session (which again was fine but why hadn't he wanted to talk about it? Was it a very sensitive issue for him that we should discuss in private?).

Anyway he's now realised that I keep this journal and write down down my thoughts. Unfortunately he seems to see it as a place where I write down bad stuff about him/our relationship. I've tried to explain that I write down my thoughts about everything (not just him) and that there's good stuff there as well!

He's really gone off on one about it...this morning saying that it's illegal to write things about other people without their permission...that I'm somehow abusing his human rights or something...

Your thoughts please?

A. Of course it's not illegal assuming it is a private diary.

B. could it be that he is just very insecure about your relationship right now? I can see why he might find it intrusive that you keep a written record of things entirely from your perspective, it must seem as though you are writing history all from your point of you.

C. That doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't do it. But if i were you I would avoid talking about it with him for the moment, after all you write it for you and you are not presumably keeping it as a list of his faults so keep it private. Offer lots of reassurance that you are not doing it to get at him.

It sounds odd, particularly saying that it's illegal.
Of course it isn't.
Journalists do it all the time. :-)

It might be illegal to record it (tape it) without his permission, though.

But not to write about it!

Sarcalogos thanks for your reply. Yes I agree I think he's feeling very insecure about the relationship...

I haven't mentioned my journal since then but he keeps bringing it up. I have tried to reassure him that it's about my thoughts on everything not just him...

He said he wants to talk about in the next counselling session so I hope that it will all calm down then...

I feel very sad about it. Wish I'd never mentioned it now

A,b, and c above and hide/lock it unless you are happy that he reads it

He's a controlling git.

It's not your journal-writitng he objects to, it's the fact that your journal threatens his re-writing of history. He doesn't like being shown up to be wrong, can't abide it, and therefore is angry at you for daring to do so (and spouting all sorts of shit about the illegality of diaries - ha!).

By "his stress", do you mean that he is verbally and/or emotionally abusive to you?

By "my stubbornness", do you mean the way that both you and he place the blame for his "stress" reactions onto you when you dare to assert yourself?

I'd take a gander on the EA thread. The links in the OP might be of interest to you.

I don't understand why, if your DH is feeling insecure about your relationship, he feels behaving like an arse about your journal is a good way to improve matters.

foolonthehill I have asked him if he wants to read it (although I'd rather he didn't as it's...well...private!) but he says no...

HotDAMNlifeisgood I have thought this before. I did suggest that he seems like he wants to control the situation. However, I'm not sure if he's EA or if he's suffering from anxiety. I've had anxiety before and I know how little things become hugely exaggerated in you mind and how you feel that everything's out of your control...

it's illegal to write things about other people without their permission...

ROFL.

Doesn't he read newspapers, books, magazines, or browse the net?

The Queen keeps a journal which will, in the fullness of time, be scrutinised by posterity and if diary keeping is good enough for Her Maj...

Tell him to lighten up and get over himself.

Lueji I would never tape him! Although I do think sometimes it would be 'interesting' to hear certain conversations played back don't you?

OneHandFlapping that's interesting. I feel that a journal helps me to get a perspective on my thoughts...you know ...looking back at stuff that's happened and thinking about how you feel differently about it now. I guess he really doesn't see it that way...he seems to think that I'm going to use it against him somehow...which I would never do.

I find his thoughts on your journal-keeping unsettling. He views it as an enemy. It's very very wrong to want to control what you write down privately and it's troubling that he gets so upset about it and won't let it go. The things he's coming out with are ridiculous. I agree that it's controlling.

However, I'm not sure if he's EA or if he's suffering from anxiety.

Abusers are usually depressives.
Abusers will often have had shit childhood experiences that injured their self-esteem.

None of the above absolves them from responsibility for their actions.

Most depressives don't abuse their loved ones.
People with shit childhoods can treat others with respect.
He has the capacity to choose how he treats you, whatever his mental health status or background.

Stop looking at him and his anxiety for a minute, and look at you and your unhappiness in this situation. Is it ok? Do you deserve this treatment? What are you and are you not willing to accept?

He is being paranoid and controlling if he can't cope with the fact that a different version of the facts may exist somewhere. He probably hasn't thought about the fact that your memories differ from his up until this point; the action of commiting them to paper may make them more 'real' and therefore dangerous to his way of thinking IYSWIM.

It is not illegal to keep a private journal detailing your opinions on other people/events/life!!

BTW, DH and I often have complete breakdowns in memory over who said what and are in agreement that the only way to ever truly know who's right would be to install CCTV in the house. That might be pushing it.... (although DS is getting bigger so may serve as an external arbiter of memory in years to come)!

I wasn't suggesting you did. :)

But... I did start taping ex's online conversations with DS (and told him that I was going to) just to avoid arguments about what happened during those conversations, and his general nastiness. They did improve massively.

My first thoughts about his reaction were that he was being controlling indeed.
A normal reaction would be to accept that he had said it, or even find an excuse for it.
Not trying to prevent you from having a journal...

izzyizin that's good! I'll compare myself to Her

Oogaballoo yes I find it a bit unsettling that he's focused on it so much...he does seem to be struggling to get control of our situation (which has TBH got a bit out of control).

HotDAMNlifeisgood he's not always treating me great but then I don't think I'm being particularly nice to him at the moment either ...

Herrena yes of course people's memory of events differ. DH and I have a history of "seeing things differently" too... I just wish he didn't find it so threatening...

Lueji I just realised that I haven't actually said what his reaction was when I brought up "the issue" after counselling.

He said he did remember saying something about it, but he didn't remember it in the way I had said. I'm absolutely fine with that answer...as I said we all remember things differently. However, he didn't really answer me when I asked why he didn't give that response in counselling.

My only guess is that while I saw the issue as unthreatening but possibly important, he saw it otherwise?

he's not always treating me great but then I don't think I'm being particularly nice to him at the moment either

You are the best judge of your relationship, but if you are not treating him well at the moment because he doesn't normally treat you well, it doesn't put the blame on you, nor puts you both in a similar footing.
We react to how we are treated.
If you were always nice to a nasty person you would be a door mat.

Of course he doesn't like it.

He can't 'gaslight' you and do a revision on history.

Perhaps he is unnerved at the fact that a document written by you, giving your own "version" of something which just happened is going to be wheeled out months later as a "definitive" version of the event which "trumps" his version?

He might now feel that he also needs to record things so you both have equal "evidence" of what you think was said and done, but can't be arsed to go to all the trouble (and so feels angry and a bit resentful about it all).

Lueji yes I agree...we react to how we're being treated. The problem is DH and I are now stuck in this loop. I'm fed up with being treated badly...a doormat...(which is why we're in counselling) and so I'm not being so "nice" to him anymore (I just can't do it anymore)....and now he's reacting to me "not being very nice"....

GingerBlondecat the thing is I don't think it's deliberate gaslighting...I think he genuinely does see things/remember things/interpret things differently...

Bluegrass yes he does seem to think that I will be using my journal as "evidence" against him in the future. I can see why he would think that - after all isn't that what I've just done?

Very interesting - I've kept a diary since I was 13 (I hope to give it to DD one day when she's grown up) and NSDH doesn't like that too. He has asked me many times if I write bad things about him (I do, but because he's a controlling arse) and I now keep it at work so he can't read it.

By the way, your H claiming he hasn't said something you know he did and getting angry about it is very similar to my H, it's all about control. It's typical gaslighting.

Tell him to sod off and make sure you keep your diary close to you - he might try to destroy it, or read it and use things you're written as a stick to beat you with. And no it doesn't affect his 'human rights'.

bertie you wouldn't need to use your journal as 'evidence' if he didn't try to lie about things that happened.

I find the whole idea of someone thinking they can comment or control where you put down your own thoughts about your own life massively intrusive. If my husband decided to write a journal, or writes letters, or tells the priest stuff, or tells his friends about me, it is none of my business. That's what it means to have personal autonomy. I write online a lot, sometimes about my husband, always hidden/anonymous, it's none of his business and he knows it! This is a bad sign.

it is easy to put down all actions and make excuses to "stress" and anxiety.
my exp defininitely had stress/anxiety (clinically diagnsoed depression adn anxiety) but reading "why does he do that" and counselling helped open my eyes...

after all, we both had the same stresses eg disabled child etc. his lack of ability to deal wtih the stress did not excuse his behaviours - tho i lived with them for far longer than was necessary...also setting your own boundaries and reading around depression/MH issues "depression fallout" (read

www.amazon.co.uk/How-Survive-When-Theyre-Depressed/dp/0609804154/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338461616&sr=1-2

some of the chapters in why does he do that are worth looking at

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656

maybe try some individual relate sessions on your own ?

oh and on the journal that is nonsense - one of m exp's obsessions too that i talked and told everything to my online groups etc and what had i said about him etc .

it is insecure and no it is not illegal!! he can do the same.

just say -
"you are perfectly entitled to ahve your own journal and record too and i have no problem with that "

bu of course his vesion amy eb differnet from yours - the football match report will wholly depend on which side you supported ...

The issue here is that you know you can be nice. And he knows it too.
He should not expect you to be a nice person to him if he doesn't change his behaviour first.

I'm sure he was happier when you were a doormat.

Most people probably don't gaslight on purpose, but may use it as a mental process of not assuming guilt. It doesn't take away that they do it.