DH doesn't like me keeping a journal

[bertiebassett]

Have namechanged for this one...

Bit of background: DH and I are going through a bad patch. Lots of issues (his stress, our communication, my stubborness etc). Have had 6 Relate sessions so far...progress is slow.

Anyway, I keep a journal. Have done for years on and off. I like writing down the things that matter to me and keeping track of them (DCs milestones, my thoughts and emotions, realtionship stuff, my acheivements etc). It's also a way of me making sense of my thoughts IYKWIM. I'm not always great at communicating my thoughts to others and I find it helps to reflect on what I'm feeling.

I've never really talked about my journal until recently (although I'm pretty sure DH knew I kept one!). Something came up in a Relate session where he denied having said something to me a few months earlier, that I knew he had (because I'd written about it at the time in my journal). He got a bit angry that I suggested he said it (not that it was anything particularly horrid!). I didn't make anything of it at the time but a few days later I asked him about it.

It was a bit tricky to bring it up...but I mentioned my journal and said (as nicely as I could!) that I'd written about my thoughts following this thing that he'd said a few months beforehand. I'd brought it up it in the Relate session as I felt it might be relevant/important. Did he really not remember saying it (which was absolutely fine after all we all forget stuff don't we?) or had he just not wanted to talk about it in the session (which again was fine but why hadn't he wanted to talk about it? Was it a very sensitive issue for him that we should discuss in private?).

Anyway he's now realised that I keep this journal and write down down my thoughts. Unfortunately he seems to see it as a place where I write down bad stuff about him/our relationship. I've tried to explain that I write down my thoughts about everything (not just him) and that there's good stuff there as well!

He's really gone off on one about it...this morning saying that it's illegal to write things about other people without their permission...that I'm somehow abusing his human rights or something...

Your thoughts please?

It hasn't been enough to convince you because any effort he's made has been tokenism

And he still expects you to flagellate yourself at his altar? Stupid vain twunt!

The thing is I've read the Lundy book and although I can see aspects of him in there, I can also see bits of myself. It scares me...

Yesterday in counselling I was saying how I felt intimidated by him sometimes and I avoided confrontations because of that. Then he recounted a time when I'd confronted him and HE'D felt intimidated...I could see how I was doing exactly the thing I hated....

If you're implying that you're as bad as each other, it's all the more reason to separate and minimise the damage you're inflicting on your dc.

Stop the FUCKING JOINT COUNSELLING!

Sorry Bertie, sorry for shouting, but can't you see what he's doing? he's mimicking YOU!

this is why Relate won't counsel in abusive situations. STOP IT IMMEDIATELY!

This man is mean, abusive, and controlling.
He looked for no-strings sex

DAMNED RIGHT you confronted him! You have every RIGHT to do so. He doesn't like being confronted so he hurls the Abuser word at you, knowing it'll stop you in your tracks!

Stop the counselling, reclaim some control over who says what about you and to whom. Change therapists. The one you have is useless if they can't see what is going on.

You will start to feel stronger.

Well izzy I'm not sure that we are as bad as each other, I'm just aware that i struggle to get my feelings across to him and he might feel that I'm not being very nice...this is the event we were discussing...what do you think:

We had been talking about whether we should have a holiday this year. I said I wasn't sure...previous few holidays had been a nightmare with him complaining etc and I'd vowed never again each time (and then given in the following year...this is a pattern isn't it?). What with the recent events i find it difficult to spend too much time with him so was concerned about a holiday abroad. Also he has no money so I'd be paying for the holiday...

Anyway, a few days later I went to talk to him. Said I'd thought about it and didn't think I could handle a whole week away anywhere...but how about a short break? I also said maybe he would like to take DS away for a break by himself too (he's never done this before but I often go away with DS).

He said he didn't want to talk about it so I said ok, when you do let me know. Ten minutes later he appeared in my bedroom. Started shouting at me. Said there was no point in trying to work on our relationship anymore. if we weren't going to have a week away as a family there would be no holidays for us individually. I felt really intimidated.

When we talked about this yesterday he said that he'd felt intimidated when I started talking about what I did and didn't want...that it was aggressive (i honestly didn't think it was) and he was just responding to that....

happy I did wonder about the mimicking actually...I think this has happened before... When i had asked him to leave and then backed down I told him that I felt sorry for him...I used a specific phrase...a couple of weeks ago in counselling he said he felt sorry for me (using the same phrase).

Is this a strategy then? A deliberate one?

yep! Trust your instincts my darling!

Also know that the best way of hitting BACK at them is to use THEIR insults/complaints/digs and snipes AGAINST them.... hits them RIGHT where it hurts I can tell you!

Oh and WE ALL get told we are abusive... ALL of us. It's a tactic.

Shit shit shit

"Said there was no point in trying to work on our relationship anymore. if we weren't going to have a week away as a family there would be no holidays for us individually"

he's playing on your fear of being alone.... so this comment is designed to make you panic and get back in line.

You go on the holiday, he treats you like shit, you vow never again.... and it keeps you invested in him for another couple of weeks/months until the hols are over and done with.

Classic.

You can do this love, you ARE smarter than him... or you will be... MN is behind you, what does HE have? NOTHING !

Chin up, keep talking to us please? we'll be here for you!

Ok...so first thing is to end the counselling yes?

I was the one that had insisted on it. DH has said (in the initial few weeks anyway) that he thought the counsellor was biased towards me, that the counselling wasn't very good, and that it want helping.

Should I say "you know what I think you're right about the counselling not working...let's forget it?"

He will probably argue for it then...

He should really be bending backwards to put the relationship right. Not screaming.
Even if he felt that way, he should be talking calmly with you.

You need to tell him the ground rules if you are to stay with him. And not shouting should be one of them.

Oh, and don't feel sorry for him. You should be sorry for yourself for putting up with this.

Oh I did give him ground rules when I said he could stay...treating me with respect was one of them...I have reminded him of this...

He said yesterday that my presenting him with ground rules are (just one part of the) evidence that I am now being controlling

I'd be telling him that I want a separation. Get him away from you and your child for a while to enable you to think straight.

Sorry, forgot to add he's fucking with your head big time sweetheart.

You are not being in control, though.
He still is because he is not treating you with respect.

You can decide to put up with this and let him ground you down, or decide you have given him enough opportunities.

Hi Bertie

Another second (or maybe third or fourth) for end the counselling. Could you get counselling just for you? I think you are starting to see that the relationship is wrong at the core, but don't feel bad if you're feeling paralysed and stuck for now, and not able to deal with the truth. I knew I was in an abusive relationship (complete with intimidation spilling into violence) and it still took me months to leave. I wanted it to work soooooo badly. He just wanted to be in control.

I also have kept a journal of events and other things that have happened in my relationship, as I started to realise how bad things were getting at. I think my NSDH knows about it (it's online), because I think he has my computer bugged. He'd make little snidey comments: 'I suppose you're going to write that in your little diary, are you?' And when he found out I had spoken to a solicitor (because he checked what calls I'd made that day on our phone, and then must've googled the number), he demanded to know what I'd said to them about him, when I wouldn't say he said he'd get his own solicitor and they'd make mine tell him. It's about them feeling threatened, I think

Journaling helps you think through problems. Maybe reading it all back will help you when the time comes to make a decision.

Oh, and I've been called abusive too. And controlling. (And many, many other things that are too nasty to mention.). His main one was that I was argumentative - anyone that knows me knows I can be stupidly stubborn, but I avoid conflict. I also tried to impose boundaries around respecting me, asking him not to slam doors as I found it intimidating. He'd agree, then continued to do it. When I reminded he laughed at me (in a sneery way) and said I was ridiculous and over-sensitive. Towards the end, I saw a lot of his own behaviours reflected back onto me as he accused me of doing what he was doing.

I think your fear is that you are as bad as he says you are. You are not. It's that your self-esteem has been ground down, as mine was, and you are believing what he's saying about you. Go back to your journal, reread it.

ponygirl I think you've got it spot on. All the things that he's complaining about are because he feels threatened...the journal, the ground rules...he's also refusing to go to his GP (insomnia...maybe stress/anxiety based) in case he gets diagnosed with something and I "use it against him"...

ponygirl are you me?

I also have been called stubborn but I hate conflict...

He won't 'agree' to you ending joint counselling to carry on in single counselling.

It's best to say to him, that none of this is working and that you are going to stop the counselling, and that you want to separate.

He will panic. This will spark a reaction in him, especially if he sees you mean it. Ride that tidal wave, focus on what is past it, which is calm, serenity and peace, know that on the other side it's better.

Stick to your guns. Tell him it's not working and perhaps it's time to realise that enough is enough. His treatment of you has sunk to such a depth that you are losing all last vestiges of respect for him, so it's better if you cut to the chase sooner rather than later or you will end up really hating him.

Or tell him that you feel that counselling is counter-productive, he's not taking it seriously, and actually it's making the issues worse, so there comes a time when you realise that the end has come, a line has been crossed, and you have reached that line.

If you need to be devious, Tell him that perhaps a break may help to calm you both, to give you the space to see what is what, and to mend a little and if enough progress has been made to resolve issues that there may be a way back, but that atm there are 2heads knocking at each other and it's destroying everything you have.

FYI only:
You are not setting 'Ground Rules' you are merely stating your boundaries. I'm willing to bet that they are very teeny weeny boundaries too. If you can give examples, I can show you how unbalanced they are in his favour, i guarantee it.

I know this because I got down to a single boundary (which Ex STILL didn't honour) my only request of him was 'Not to be so nasty'

NOT:
To stop being nasty full stop.
NOT:
To be NICE
NOT:
To Actually respect me
NOT:
to treat me as an equal

JUST:
Not to be so nasty.

You are entitled to a space that is YOU. You are entitled to state preferences for how you like to be treated and you are entitled to people respecting those boundaries.

That is not being controlling. That is (I'm led to believe) how NORMAL people live.

Teehee Bertie!!! I may well be you, I am as yet convinced that the situation I currently find myself in (see my various lengthy posts in the EA thread) are actually someone else's life I am leading.

I've just realised another example of mimicking...

When I first found out about website etc I was so furious and devastated that I simply couldn't talk to him for a few days. I feel so bad that DS might have witnessed me being like that (I can't quite remember as its a bit of a blur but he must have noticed)...since then I have always ensured that I behave appropriately around DS.

In counselling yesterday we were talking about DHs lack of communication over past 6 days. I said I found it disrespectful that he had not replied to a text message I sent (mum due to visit and I wanted to check that he was ok with that before she bought her train tickets). He said he had decided not to communicate or reply because thats what I had done to him...

He replied to my text today...said he thinks it "would be good for you and DS" if she came to stay but that he would "be doing his own thing".

He's back in control of that situation now isn't he?

Interesting point about boundaries, or needs to put it another way. I have been seeing a counsellor since I left my NSDH. We've talked a lot about my needs, and how I've made it possible for him to not meet them because I've not insisted that he does, I've almost agreed that they're unimportant because there have been no follow-ups if he's not meeting them. It all stems back to my childhood (apparently), and not wanting to be selfish and push my needs forward.

But it's like they say about toddlers and kids - they need boundaries.

How do you think he'd react if you do as Hissy suggests? It's not about control for you, but it is for him, and at some point you'll need to take control back - of your own life. He wont like it, as Hissy says, but maybe it'll be the making or breaking.