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sex while asleep

734 replies

silver999 · 05/05/2012 22:18

my partner woke me up by having sex with me, I was really shocked at what was happening and not sure what to do or think about what has happened.
I told my friend but she just laughed about it, any advice? thanks.

OP posts:
Jinx1906 · 10/05/2012 11:37

Cailin, The difference is that you said stop.

People are not mind readers. It may well be that the partner involved thinks that it seems a good idea at the time and does not mean to harm his/her partner only to find that their partner is horrified by their actions. However if a couple know each other well I would expect them to be on the same wave length and hence incidents like this are not likely.

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 11:39

So if I hadn't said stop, it wouldn't be rape? The boyfriend had the right to do whatever he liked to my body, whether he wanted to or not?

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 11:39

Sorry whether I wanted to or not

BIWItheBold · 10/05/2012 11:40

Jinx - have you read the thread? Hmm

Just because you might be 'on the same wavelength' does not mean that you have given your partner consent to have sex with you when you are asleep.

People aren't mind-readers. Therefore they should establish with their partner that they want to have sex before they proceed to assault them

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 11:43

a woman lying still, or not responding is not consenting.

it is the duty of the man to ensure that his partner wants to have sex before penetration. they can only do that when the other person is conscious.

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/05/2012 11:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 11:46

I wasn't actually asleep when I was raped, but it would have been blatantly obvious to my boyfriend that I wasn't participating. It wouldn't have taken a genius or a mind reader to figure out I hadn't consented yet he just carried on. In my view I should be able to sleep safely in my bed without having to worry that I might have to wake up quickly to avoid being raped.

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 11:51

I agree with Stewie.

ok, I have told this story elsewhere under a different name but it fits in here.

When I was 18 I went to a party, I had far too much to drink and fell asleep in the parents' bed. I woke up to a man inbetween my legs. I thought it was my boyfriend, so for a moment I responded. my eyes adjusted and I saw that it was a friend of my best friend. so I stopped still and said (quietly) please dont.

maybe he didnt hear me, or maybe he ignored me, only he knows that. but he didnt stop. I know he penetrated me before I was awake. I know that I didnt want to have sex with him. and I know that he didnt know if I wanted to have sex with him.

for years I put it down to experience. "one of those mistakes you make when you are young and cant handle your drink" now I know that he raped me. and there is no excuse.

Jinx1906 · 10/05/2012 11:52

How am I blaming women for being raped. Where did I say this, I must have typed that in my sleep because I can not remember doing so.

I'm also not saying that anyone should do anything to another person that they do not agree with but at the same time I can not understand that as I said before someone would only wake up in the middle of being raped. I would expect that the woman or man would wake up a bit sooner than that.

What I mean by on the same wavelength is that if one know their partner one is likely to know what they like and what they do not like... and consequently if you know that your partner doesn't like something, don't do it...

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 11:54

I'm struggling to figure out what your point is Jinx. Would you consider what happened to me to be rape or not?

nutellaontoast · 10/05/2012 12:03

jinx - the onus isn't on an unconscious person to come to and prevent themselves from being assaulted. People don't exist in a permanemt state of consent, even in a relationship. By suggesting this, you are blaming the victim for what has happened to them.

Have you read the rape myths? If you'll scroll up the thread I posted several very clear definitions of consent as well, shall I repost?

Jinx1906 · 10/05/2012 12:04

This reply has been deleted

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Jinx1906 · 10/05/2012 12:07

Nuttella,

My DH has never asked me to confirm if I wanted sex, does this mean that he is raping me?

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 12:09

I don't think there is enough information in your post to make a decision one way or the other.

yes there is. she woke up to find her boyfriends penis inside her. she didnt say he could put it there. that is rape.

many women dont struggle, they just stay quiet, or pretend it isnt happening. that is not giving consent.

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 12:10
nutellaontoast · 10/05/2012 12:10

Ah, the old "not enough information" defense.

Sorry to repost, but as jinx couldn't be arse reading the thread:

Yale

"Definition of Sexual Consent

Sexual activity requires consent, which is defined as clear, unambiguous, and voluntary agreement between the participants to engage in specific sexual activity. Consent cannot be inferred from the absence of a "no"; a clear "yes," verbal or otherwise, is necessary. Although consent does not need to be verbal, verbal communication is the most reliable form of asking for and gauging consent, and individuals are thus urged to seek consent in verbal form. Talking with sexual partners about desires and limits may seem awkward, but serves as the basis for positive sexual experiences shaped by mutual willingness and respect.

Consent cannot be obtained from someone who is asleep or otherwise mentally or physically incapacitated, whether due to alcohol, drugs, or some other condition. Consent cannot be obtained by threat, coercion, or force. Agreement given under such conditions does not constitute consent.

Consent must be clear and unambiguous for each participant throughout any sexual encounter. Consent to some sexual acts does not imply consent to others, nor does past consent to a given act imply ongoing or future consent. Consent can be revoked at any time. For all of these reasons, sexual partners must evaluate consent in an ongoing fashion and should communicate clearly with each other throughout any sexual encounter."

See also Rape Crisis' definition of rape - take particular note of:

"It is not relevant what relationship, if any, a defendant has or had with you. Nor is it relevant if the act complained of occurred within a relationship. If the defendant intentionally penetrates with his penis the vagina, anus or mouth of the complainant without her consent where he does not reasonably believe in her consent the defendant has committed rape."

And also a recent review on consent, Telegraph article here

In what ministers regard as its crucial paragraph, Sir Igor said: "If, through drink, or for any other reason, the complainant has temporarily lost her capacity to choose whether to have intercourse on the relevant occasion, she is not consenting, and subject to questions about the defendant's state of mind, if intercourse takes place, this would be rape."

Personally I like the way Yale put it best, but it all amounts to the same thing.

Links are upthread, I need to make lunch.....

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 12:14

Jinx, do you respond or just lie there waiting for him to finish? does he put his penis inside you while you are unconscious? if so, then yes, he is raping you.

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 12:22

I don't see how you think I didn't give enough information Jinx. I said he started taking my clothes off when I was asleep and carried on with what he was doing despite the fact that I wasn't participating at all. It would have been blatantly obvious to anyone that I wasn't consenting. To carry on having sex with someone who isn't participating is rape.

Would you sit a young girl down and say that she can expect to have sex with someone even if she doesn't want to, and that's normal? Would you say that to your daughter?

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 12:28

The ironic thing is, at the time I was very pissed off about what happened but the word "rape" didn't even occur to me. The next morning he came in and asked me why I had left the room and I said it was because I was scared and shocked and because I didn't want sex and didn't trust him to leave me alone. He actually said "You're making it sound rapey." You know what, it sounded "rapey" because it was bloody rape ffs!

Jinx1906 · 10/05/2012 12:29

Oracle,

No but at the same time, I would not expect for him to get that far without me waking up first.

Sorry to repost, but as jinx couldn't be arse reading the thread
Nutella,
I don't understand why you are taking that tone with me but I'm sure you are a very nice person really.

For what it is worth Yes I had read the thread I just think that the issue of consent if not always straight forward

BIWItheBold · 10/05/2012 12:30

Have you bothered to read the MN campaign thread, including the rape myths, Jinx?

CailinDana · 10/05/2012 12:30

I still don't get your point though, Jinx, honestly. Given the information I have now restated for you, would you consider what happened to me to be rape?

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/05/2012 12:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OracleInaCoracle · 10/05/2012 12:33

but several women have said that its happened to them. just because it hasnt happened to you doesnt mean it doesnt. the issue of consent isnt murky at all either. it doesnt have to be "do you want to have sex?" "yes" but lying still is not consenting. and being asleep is not being available.