sex while asleep

[silver999]

my partner woke me up by having sex with me, I was really shocked at what was happening and not sure what to do or think about what has happened.
I told my friend but she just laughed about it, any advice? thanks.

I actually wonder what form an intellectual argument to your partner to persuade them to have sex might involve? What wording would you use Larry?

"I actually wonder what form an intellectual argument to your partner to persuade them to have sex might involve? What wording would you use Larry?"

I might invoke the hedonist philosphers and the fact that life is short.

Larry, you think it's ok to argue with a partner to get sex. I don't, and wouldn't. I wouldn't like to be badgered into sex in a relationship either. That is not some ideal world or unattainable utopia - it is merely a respectful relationship.

Larry none of your examples involve persuasion, all involve the partner having sex to please the other partner or to achieve a goal (ie conception or reconciliation). Persuasion implies that one person doesn't want sex and the other one convinces them for some reason.

Cailin,

Let's look at it from a female's perspective. She tells her husband she is horny. He says he is tired. She starts to kiss him and he responds. He has never said yes but now he is becoming aroused and it ends in sex. That is persuasion and is in no way abusive or rape. She has PERSUADED him to change from one idea to another. I just don't get how people can really object to that.

Ah, so you can't actually give a description of an intellectual argument a person might use to persuade them to have sex if they are unwilling? Even though you have referred to it in several of your posts.

I have done that in the past Larry but I wouldn't consider it persuasion. It doesn't involve argument reason or entreaty, it involves giving the other person an incentive to have sex by getting them turned on.

Running,

I only referred to argument as part of a definition of persuasion and then again in response to your aggressive rejoinder.

The scenario I posted above is far more likely than an intellectual argument, though I will reiterate, if anyone can make an intellectual argument and persuade their partner to have sex on the basis of it, good for them.

Cailin,

Giving someone an incentive to do something pretty much perfectly fits every definition of persuasion that I have ever read.

Larry, your little scenario above doesn't involve any 'argument' and I doubt if anyone on MN would consider it abusive.

However, you posted earlier that you see no harm in making an intellectual argument to your partner to persuade them to have sex. I wondered what form that intellectual argument would take?

Larry, in your post of 9:43 you say: 'people have to take the responsibility to make clear the lack of consent, either verbally or by their actions'

So if someone is either asleep, unconscious or been drugged, then how would they reasonably be expected to do this?

Or if they are scared? Or disabled? Or all the other reasons that someone might not be able to make clear their lack of consent? What should they do, Larry?

Plenty I do like MattEthridge's response to that "charmer" on the blog.

Ha! Yeah, just goes to show that use of profanities doesn't equate to inarticulacy. Actually, I like it so much I think I'll C&P it here:

--------
?It is true that guys regularily need to press on through token resistance by girls?

You pathetic piece of garbage. You need to press on through token resistance?
Piece
of
shit.
Guys like you make me ashamed to be a man. Bastard. I have a two year old boy. How am I going to explain your kind to him? How am I going to explain you to my seven year old daughter? Because your kind abides. You are always around, smirking, and taking advantage, and then thinking you are doing right, and having the gall to explain why you are right, when you are so clearly wrong.

Fucking garbage.
----------

Of course, such a personal attack would be unacceptable on MN.

Running,

To consent you need to be in a position to consent. Asleep, drugged or unconscious, you are not in a position to consent ergo no consent has been given. The only exception being a couple where it has been pre agreed that they enjoy sex being initiated while they are asleep.

If they were scared or disabled, it would come down to circumstances. If they were reasonably scared of violence, then again, consent under duress is not consent.

It is interesting that you say that no one on MN would object to the scenario that I posited between man and wife. Yet in that scenario, no explicit consent was at any point given, in fact quite the reverse, the only explicit comment was a "no" from the husband. Yet, the wife pressed on and assumed due to the fact that the man was physically aroused that consent had been given. I think that, had I reversed the sexes, a fair amount of people would have objected. And, it is interesting that you object to my post of 9:43, which effectively covers just such a scenario.

Finally as to intellectual argument, let me give you an example:

Person A: No darling, I am too tired.
Person B, But life is short and we should take our pleasures whilst we still can.

That is an intellectual argument in favour of having sex. In any sense objectionable to you?

I think in your scenario, the woman would only be OK to press on if her partner was not only aroused but was responding - i.e. participating or actively joining in. If there was any doubt, the onus would be on her to check.

I'm not really that interested in your 'scenarios' to try to prove there's some sort of grey area when it comes to consent. It's not that hard to ask is it?

Plenty,

Well I have discussed just that point with my wife and we would both find being explicitly asked a total turn off. As would most other people that I have asked re this kind of thread, both male and female.

Larry, I just read your 9:43 post again, and you are blatantly backtracking. Your scenario and your little example there of an 'intellectual argument' above do not exemplify what you were arguing in your previous posts.

That's odd, Larry, none of my partners have taken offence at being asked if they'd like to have sex.

Garlic,

Last of the true romantics.

Garlic, none of mine either. Ive never found being pressured to have sex a turn on either. thats not romance.

Well, depends how you phrase it. Was it, 'Darling, do you consent to sexual intercourse?' or was it, 'shall I carry on?'

I wouldn't be turned off by the second one. Either is preferable to carelessly raping somebody.