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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

sex while asleep

734 replies

silver999 · 05/05/2012 22:18

my partner woke me up by having sex with me, I was really shocked at what was happening and not sure what to do or think about what has happened.
I told my friend but she just laughed about it, any advice? thanks.

OP posts:
Portofino · 08/05/2012 15:05

Even Op was trying to prove a point, then he was disappointed surely?

imnotmymum · 08/05/2012 15:07

Well I just read thread and still have same opinion. I have an awesome relationship 17 years 4 children and very happy and in love thank you Plenty.

NarkedPuffin · 08/05/2012 15:08

In this case no Portofino. It's because some posters think it's acceptable for men to treat women this way - or vice versa - if they're in a relationship. But apparently they draw the line at unprotected rape. Because that's different.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 08/05/2012 15:10

Whether OP was genuine or not, it's in Relationships and started as a support thread. Being raped in your sleep by a partner who is supposed to love and respect you seems, sadly, to be quite a common problem. There will probably be lurkers who this is happening to and who are very distressed about it.

Agree with Portofino, some of the posts here are shocking and disgusting.

Portofino · 08/05/2012 15:25

And there is something deeply unpleasant about imnot's use of the word "irresistable" in the context of this thread, like men just can't help themselves......

narked, I was assuming that if OP was trying to prove a point, it was that there would be a different opinion if this happened to a man vs a woman....but I don't think there was - just a split on whether or not it is acceptable and/or rape.

Puffinsaresmall · 08/05/2012 15:31

imnotmymum - Seriously, if your partner is having sex with you while you are asleep please at least think about what is happening. If this thread does nothing else maybe it could be a lightbulb moment for you when you realise that this is not normal behaviour.

In normal relationships, each person wants the other to have a good time in bed. That's not really possible if one of them is asleep/unconscious.

imnotmymum · 08/05/2012 15:32

Portofino- as I said I was referring to mine and DH relationship and hope he does find me irresistible and lust over me for a long time to come !!

garlicbutty · 08/05/2012 15:46

It continues to surprise me. I used to have pathetic boundaries and accepted some really horrid behaviours as compliments and/or well-intentioned.

I also used to have sleepy sex quite often - this was where I was partially woken by some stroking and stuff, then continued to full sex while still in a dreamlike state. It was pleasant.

Yet, the one time I awoke to find my partner's fingers inside me, I went ballistic. He said he wanted to see if I was 'ready' which, as I forcefully pointed out, meant he was just finding out if he could stick his dick in easily without bothering to engage my interest. That was unpleasant!

Since I took offence at that whilst I was compliantly being abused in other ways, including sexually, I am very worried by the proportion of posters here who seem not to see what's wrong.

I want to think they're mixing up 'sleepy sex' and 'having sex inflicted on you while unconscious'. But they say not.

:(

imnotmymum · 08/05/2012 16:01

Puffin In hindsight perhaps I did come across the wrong way. Perhaps I was being flippant and that is totally wrong when someone is being genuinely abused. I have undermined the issue of rape in relationships and our "sex when asleep" is a lot more like the sleepy sex described by garlic. I have never woke to have my DH going at it hammer and tongs. That is why I found it hard to understand it being described as rape as that is not I guess. I aplologise to anyone if offended.

garlicbutty · 08/05/2012 16:39

Nice post, imnot, thanks :)

timetochangeagain · 08/05/2012 17:00

Ahem - excuse me garlic but where the hell have I posted anything at all about "Betty and timeto, in your evocations of BDSM, rape fantasy, et al* I suggest you go back over the thread and see who posted what.

Me - evoking rape fantasies - never in a million years.

Thistledew · 08/05/2012 18:05

WARNING - possible sexual violence trigger.

I types this out and am still not sure whether to post, but I seem to be in a publish and be damned mood. I am sorry of it causes upset and warn again that it could be triggering.

I am surprised that WB's 'fantasy' post has been allowed to stay up on this thread. I had thought that it would be removed, but as it has not, I think it is so good that is deserves a chapter 2.

Here we go:

"The night following my passionate lovemaking with Mark, I was struck down with a terrible migraine. It seemed like my body and senses had been so overwhelmed by the sexual energy that has flooded through me the night before that even the slightest stimulation caused a shaft of pain to split my head in two. I took the strongest painkillers I could and eventually dropped into a deep, drugged sleep.

Sometime later that night, I came awake to find a man on top of me, squeezing my throat and thrusting his penis inside of me. It took me a few moments for the fog of the sleep and painkillers to lift before I realised: the man was Mark.

But this was all wrong! I didn't feel the same sexual excitement as I had felt the night before. My head pounded and I felt like I was going to be sick, but I couldn't be because of the hands around my neck. I pulled at these hands, and tried to cry out "Stop!" but could only manage a few muffled sounds. I tried to push at the body on top of me but felt weak and couldn't move him. Eventually I just lay still waiting for him to finish. When he eventually did, I lay there, trying to say something, but my throat was sore and my head still pounded and no words would come. Mark soon fell asleep, and I did too, eventually.

The next morning I spoke to Mark. I told him that I had not been feeling well and had not enjoyed it. He said that he was deeply sorry, and asked me why I had not stopped him. I said that I had tried, that I had pulled at his hands and pushed at his chest, but he kept going. He gave a little laugh at this and said "Sweetie, you always do that when I play at being the Arab. I thought you were enjoying yourself as normal!". He said that in future, I should tell him if I had a migraine and he would make sure not to 'surprise' me when I was feeling ill. Later that day he brought me a big bunch of flowers and said again how sorry he was. I could tell that he really loved me and wouldn't do anything to harm me.

A few days later, Mark asked me if I had a migraine. I told him that I was feeling fine, and he winked at me, saying that maybe I would have a special visitor that night. Later that evening, I went off to bed. Mark said that he would follow me a few moments later. I lay on my bed and started to run through the 'Arab Queen' fantasy. I was pleased that the feelings of excitement and arousal flooded through me once more.

As I lay there pretending to be asleep, I heard the phone ring and Mark's voice answering it. He must have been speaking for some time because despite my excitement, my pretend sleep became real and I drifted off.

I awoke a little time later to find Mark inside me and with his hands around my throat. I tried to slip back into my fantasy of being an Arab queen, but as much as I tried to follow the usual pattern I followed, memories of the time before kept forcing themselves into my mind. I let Mark continue for a little while, as I knew that he enjoyed this fantasy as much as I did (used to?) but eventually it became too much for me. I had to push quite hard at Mark to get him to stop, and regretted that we had not agreed a code word beforehand. I remembered the time I had laughed at my friend Ami, who made no secret of the sub-Dom sex she enjoyed with her partner Steve, when she has told me of the fun they had had choosing their safe word: apparently they had gone through all their multiple scenarios and concluded that 'Persephone' could never be confused for a cry of enthusiasm. I remembered the quizzical look she had given me when I said that Mark and I had no need of a safe word as he really loved me and I trusted him 110% never to hurt me.

Mark seemed a bit annoyed that I had stopped him. "I thought you liked this role play", he said. "I do!" I protested, although I couldn't quite quell the little voice in my head which said "you did".

"You know I do this fantasy for you, don't you?" said Mark. There was an edge to his voice that I couldn't quite tell whether it was disappointment, anger or guilt. I decided that it must be the latter when he said "You do know that I love you, don't you? That I would never do anything to hurt you, yes?"

"Yes". I said.

Mark went off to sleep in the spare room that night, saying that he didn't want to bother me any more that night.

The next morning Mark and I had a deep chat. I told him that I did not want to do the 'Arab' fantasy again. He said he understood, and that so long as I was happy we wouldn't ever do it again. Mark held me and told me that he was so very sorry and that he loved me more than anything. He said that it killed him to think that I had not enjoyed sex with him and that it would break his heart if he ever heard again that I had not enjoyed sex with him. I felt his strong arms around me and remembered how I has always called him my protector.

"But you do still like our 'surprise sex' don't you?" asked Mark, holding me close. I hesitated. "I mean", said Mark "it has always been one of the things that I have loved about you. I love it that you trust me to share this part of your sexuality. I think it brings us really close, don't you agree?"

"Yes, I do still like it" I agreed. After all, I was a strong, confident woman who was sure of her sexual identity. I felt so lucky to have a man with whom I could share that side of me. "Good", said Mark. "I will just have to think of some inventive ways to surprise you, won't I". He winked, and with that he seemed to consider the matter closed. He gave me a squeeze and got up to go to his 'den' where I heard him singing snatches of songs and tuning his favourite guitar.

Three days later, I was sitting in the kitchen with my mum having a cup of tea. Suddenly, Mark burst into the room, dressed in nothing but a tool belt. "'Ello darlin'" he drawled in the worst impression of a cockney accent I had ever heard "I'm the plumber, come to sort your plumbing out". With that, he grabbed me, threw me down on the kitchen table, pushed my skirt up and proceeded to push his erection into me. I froze. I was so shocked and embarrassed that I couldn't find my voice to tell him to stop, let alone to alert him to the presence of my mum, who stood staring open mouthed by the washing machine. Fortunately, Mark finished in a matter of seconds, as he turned to leave the room he winked at my mum and said "Hello, Mrs WB, didn't see you there". He walked out with a jaunty whistle. As soon as he had left the room, she muttered something about collecting Dad from the Doctor, grabbed her handbag and ran out the door.

So MN, here is my dilemma. I know that Mark loves me, because he tells me so about 10 times a day. I love that we have such a passionate sex life, and that I can trust him absolutely, but how do I get it through to him that sometimes are not a good time to have sex? I'm sure if I told him that I didn't want to have sex with him in front of my mum, he wouldn't do so again. Was it my fault for not telling him to stop? I know I should have, but I was so shocked I couldn't speak. I am worried that even if i tell him I don't want to have sex in front of my mum, he might not realise I am also not happy to have sex in front of my nan. Do I have to list all the family members or is there another way? I also keep thinking about the time he had sex with me when I had a migraine. I can't blame him because we had done it that way before and I had liked it, and it is easy to see why he thought me asking to stop was really me enjoying it, but it still makes me feel sad. How can I deal with my sadness so that I don't have to tell him to stop, like I did the third time. I hate it when I feel guilty for stopping him. What can I do?"

nutellaontoast · 08/05/2012 18:07

This being the relationships board, and the likelihood of a large pile of lurkers, I can' t help but wonder if someone is reading this who is currently being raped within their relationship?

I'd like to ask everyone posting: what conclusion will that person draw from your posts? Will they think that you will believe or blame them, for being in the relationship in the first place?

For the record, to that anonymous person: the police, and the law, take you seriously. MNHQ (if you read the link to "Rape Myths Busted") do too, so will Women's Aid.

And I believe you.

garlicbutty · 08/05/2012 18:15

timeto, forgive me if I've misrepresented your posts. I may have been swamped by the speed of this thread. I can't face going back to re-read!

Portofino · 08/05/2012 19:07

Thistledew Shock! ((((hugs))))

lucyellensmumnamechange · 08/05/2012 19:22

Thistledew - is that really true? i don't understand - i am hoping its not true. Is it a fantasy, a twist on a fantasy? I just don't get it :(

garlicbutty · 08/05/2012 19:47

I believe it's Chapter Two of WorriedBetty's mills & boon remake of my 'throttling' scenario :) If that helps at all?!

Thistledew, I love the way you ask readers how much precise detail your vetoes should provide. Your reply, of course, is "None; he should always check with you that you're okay with whatever he intends doing to/with you." And, possibly, check that there's no-one else present!

Portofino · 08/05/2012 19:54

I thought she was being a tad ironic about a rl experience.....

lucyellensmumnamechange · 08/05/2012 20:02

oh well i didnt read worried betty's scenario.

This is just so fucked up it isn't true.

Sleepy sex = good
Sex with a sleeping person = weird (but if consent is given, fine, whatever floats your boat)
Sex without consent = rape

consent - could be a written contract stating exactly what is acceptable withing the relationship/one night stand, could be "is this OK" "mmmYes", or just a positive response to what is being done (for me that would be active participation, or at least a few mmmm, that feels good type noises).

Is that a fair assesment? Seriously? not sarcastic, but for me - thats how i see it.

I like BDSM,i do this with my partner, i have sub fantasies, he is not natually dom so it often involves my ASKING him to do certain things to me. We have no safe word (just because we don't do anything extreme and Stop, or im not liking this babe, works for us)

Portofino · 08/05/2012 20:06

Someone who asleep cannot give consent.

lucyellensmumnamechange · 08/05/2012 20:12

Previous consent then, but then one night it might seem like a good idea another it wont - so sex with a sleeping person is a shit thing to do, i concur

nutellaontoast · 08/05/2012 20:28

Thank you, Yale

"Definition of Sexual Consent

Sexual activity requires consent, which is defined as clear, unambiguous, and voluntary agreement between the participants to engage in specific sexual activity. Consent cannot be inferred from the absence of a "no"; a clear "yes," verbal or otherwise, is necessary. Although consent does not need to be verbal, verbal communication is the most reliable form of asking for and gauging consent, and individuals are thus urged to seek consent in verbal form. Talking with sexual partners about desires and limits may seem awkward, but serves as the basis for positive sexual experiences shaped by mutual willingness and respect.

Consent cannot be obtained from someone who is asleep or otherwise mentally or physically incapacitated, whether due to alcohol, drugs, or some other condition. Consent cannot be obtained by threat, coercion, or force. Agreement given under such conditions does not constitute consent.

Consent must be clear and unambiguous for each participant throughout any sexual encounter. Consent to some sexual acts does not imply consent to others, nor does past consent to a given act imply ongoing or future consent. Consent can be revoked at any time. For all of these reasons, sexual partners must evaluate consent in an ongoing fashion and should communicate clearly with each other throughout any sexual encounter."

See also Rape Crisis' definition of rape - take particular note of:

"It is not relevant what relationship, if any, a defendant has or had with you. Nor is it relevant if the act complained of occurred within a relationship. If the defendant intentionally penetrates with his penis the vagina, anus or mouth of the complainant without her consent where he does not reasonably believe in her consent the defendant has committed rape."

And also a recent review on consent, Telegraph article here

In what ministers regard as its crucial paragraph, Sir Igor said: "If, through drink, or for any other reason, the complainant has temporarily lost her capacity to choose whether to have intercourse on the relevant occasion, she is not consenting, and subject to questions about the defendant's state of mind, if intercourse takes place, this would be rape."

Personally I like the way Yale put it best, but it all amounts to the same thing.

Thistledew · 08/05/2012 22:17

Porto - sadly, much of the emotions in my little story have come from personal experience, if (thankfully) not the exact scenarios described.

I was hoping to illustrate some of the problems that come from an attitude of presumed consent, and how ridiculous and dangerous it is to work from this position, rather than from the perspective that consent must clearly be given for each sexual encounter.

I was also hoping to illustrate (and I don't know how this came across) some of the language that can be used by abusers to manipulate their victims into believing that they are freely consenting, when in fact if they were free of the manipulation they might decide not to consent. Unfortunately, this I have written from personal experience.

And the shagging in front of the mum? Grin A little light relief, but also to illustrate the absurdity of presumed consent. You just never know what you might be consenting to.

garlicbutty · 08/05/2012 22:24

the language that can be used by abusers to manipulate their victims into believing that they are freely consenting, when in fact if they were free of the manipulation they might decide not to consent.

I thought you did that well.

Thistledew · 08/05/2012 22:52

Thanks garlic. I wasn't sure if I was overstepping the line in posting this, but had a flash of inspiration, a two hour train journey to kill, and it felt like it needed to be written.