how to move on to possible reconciliation while ignoring the elephant in the room..

[skyebluesapphire]

I have posted on a different thread in a different name about the fact my husband walked out on me..... he didnt tell me what was wrong, bottled everything up til he walked out, he is living elsewhere, calling this a temporary separation while we work out if it really is it, although he walked out saying that it was over... has since agreed to go out with me, just the two of us to see if there is anything left. we have been communicating quite well by text, but if we get anywhere near discussing issues, he backs off, saying that there is no point in going over everything as we keep saying the same stuff over. I wrote him a long letter detailing how I think everything went downhill, stress, illness etc, which he has read over several times and is writing a reply. I am hoping that communicating in this way takes the pressure off him a bit.

We are going out at the weekend, and I know that I need to stay happy and positive about this now and on the day, or there will be no point in going..

my concern now that I am really struggling with, is this... How the hell can we move on if he wont discuss the problems... It is very difficult for me to be nice and happy etc when he has walked out on me and 4 year old daughter. But obviously he is not going to want to spend time with sad moody cow, which will only reinforce him thinking he has made the right decision. So I need to be sweetness and light and remind him of the person he fell in love with, so he can work out how he really feels about me. D

I am hoping that it will go something like this, have a few dates, reconnect on some level, spend more time together, then discuss issues, more than half of which are already resolved, so we can move on and hopefully reconcile? We just have to ignore the sodding large elephant in the middle of the room for the moment??

AARRGGHH!!!

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Remember that the more you have invested in a relationship and the harder you have fought to win someone back, the less likely you are to want to lose them.

[skyebluesapphire]

Thanks for the replies, I do listen to what you say. He had tea last night after bringing daughter back because she asked if he could. He is a lot more relaxed in the house again now, which is as it should be, he was like a stranger when he first went. He was keen to spend time with me, not just her, he asked me to go to the soft play with him when he picked her up, so I went for an hour then left them to it.

When we went back to his on Sat, it was just us, the other couple were away for the weekend. We did cuddle up on the sofa, but I made sure that he made the first move, so that I knew that it was what he wanted, not me forcing him to do stuff he didnt want to do.

We cuddled up again last night here and listened to some music. I dont know what has happened to him, but he has turned a corner somewhere and seems to be coming back again. I know its a cliche, but I think he has had some sort of meltdown and couldnt see which way was up. I had a wobble myself back before Christmas and a bit of a panic thinking OMG is this it now for the rest of my life, but I think that was a reaction to turning 40 this year, lol. After a couple of days I realised that he was exactly what I wanted. I think he has done the same and not come out of it like I did....

He has told the friends wife that he had a great weekend and that he feels 100 times better about everything again. She said that he does have feelings for me, he has realised, but he is still a bit confused over everything. He does need to be certain though, as my daughter needs to come first now. He cant keep coming and going so if he comes back it has to be for good. i know there are no guarantees in life and we could separate years down the line, but I mean he has to be sure that he wants to come back and not go again in a few weeks as that would destroy my daughter and I cant do that to her.

So we will be going out again later on this week, at his suggestion. and no Im not putting out, lol.

[midwife99]

I really really hope he doesn't let you down. Perhaps you could give yourself a time limit?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Just a small question. Are you totally comfortable with having your intimate private life discussed with the friend's wife like this? She seems to be acting as confidante, go-between and he seems to look to her for permission on how to behave. I'd be very worried at this level of dependency. If it goes sour she'd have far too much sensitive information and it could come back to bite you.

[skyebluesapphire]

well its been 4 weeks today and I am a lot stronger, I am surviving on my own, so I know I can. I have got a holiday booked on 16 July, I booked it through The Sun holidays and I have put his name down as I am hoping that he will be able to come with us. (have to pay for 4 people anyway). I dont want to pressure him as he definitely needs space, but I would hope that we will be ok by then which is 2 months away, so thats kind of a time limit that I have in my head...

He is talking a lot to his friends, he has got money coming in again, he is getting on top of the business. and living with his friends he can see how they argue, he can see how their housework never gets done, he can see that everybody has problems and its not just us... he keeps telling me things which make me laugh, I dont say anything , but I think well that proves its not just us then and maybe he needed to see that.

I am more optimistic for the future. He has caught the bait, but he can reel himself in now...... my turn to sit back

[midwife99]

I think booking a holiday & "putting his name down" for it without his consent is possibly a bit controlling? You are separated! What would have been healthier is booking a holiday for you & DC without him & then if he does eventually give in to your pressure to return, (err I mean come running back with open arms) it would serve him right to be left behind! I don't know if you're just a teensy bit over optimistic?!!

[lucyellensmumnamechange]

I can't understand this - so he wants the dates, and the sex? Please tell me you didn't have sex with him. If he still loves you then he should move back in - end of story. I really don't think i could deal with him living away and throwing me morsels of hope. He is getting the best of both worlds isn't he.

[skyebluesapphire]

I have booked a holiday for me and my daughter, that is all. But with The Sun holidays you have to pay for 4 people regardless of how many go. The actual holiday park need names and you cant add them afterwards. So I put down my mum and my husband, as that covers whatever happens, as my mum will come down for a couple of nights if he is not around, or if he is then that is covered too. If we are not resolved by then, he can come to the holiday park one evening and take my daughter to the entertainment that she loves, while I do something else.

I am not controlling, I am just trying to cover all eventualities in this uncertain time..... I have already told him that we are going, just me and her. I have not put his name down without his consent, he knows that I have put his name down! It shocked him that I booked the holiday because he thought I wouldnt go without him. I said he is welcome to come if we are sorted by then. Or if he doesnt want to (one of his issues was that we shouldnt take a holiday because of his work being sporadic, but this is my daughters last chance to take a term time holiday as she starts school in september) I have booked it through The Sun, so cost for 4 nights just over £100 rather than £500 if book direct with park. so if we are sorted by then and he still doesnt want to come, then that is fine, we are going regardless! I promised my daughter a holiday and I am not going to let him stop us, regardless of our situation now or in the future.. after that I have told him that I think that everybody needs 1 weeks holiday a year..... that its unreasonable to not want to go on holiday ever again. He has just been totally irrational over everything lately..

he has never had issues with holidays in the past, he always enjoys himself on holiday, but this is all down to financial pressure, and he knows that I support him in what ever he does and we have agreed to cut down on weekends away, concerts etc if he comes back.

and I am not pressuring him to return.. we are going out by mutual agreement, he is a lot happier than he was, we are not talking about him coming back, just seeing how we get along so that he can stop being confused and work out his true feelings...... I have not once in the past 4 weeks begged him to return, all I have asked is that he considers what he is doing and give it time before burning his bridges. I told him not to come home, that I dont want him home if he doesnt know what he wants.

[skyebluesapphire]

No Im not sleeping with him, he definitely would have, but I said its not right. When he left he tried to deny his feelings and denied that attraction between us, but it is definitely there and he can see that now. There is no point in him moving back in though until he is certain it is what he wants. I am trying to protect my daughter in all this, so this is why Im not asking to move back in yet.

It has to be a slow process so that we are both sure that it is the right thing to do. Last time he asked for space, I pushed him to talk, we talked for 6 hours and he came back 3 days later. He said then that he felt pressured as he had asked for space, but he agreed he wanted to come back. So I made a huge mistake then. He left after 6 weeks saying it wasnt working. This time I have given him the space that he needs and not pressured him to come back. A good book I have that Relate recommended says that there is usually a wobble at around the 5-6 week mark and I think he hit that, panicked and walked out again. (his conversation that night went from him being confused, to walking out).

I dont care how long he needs to be away and how long it takes him. If there is any chance of sorting this, it takes as long as it takes, but at the same time, there has to be some improvement over the next couple of months, but saying that we have made a huge improvement in 1 week, so one way or the other things should be a lot clearer in a couple of months .....

[lucyellensmumnamechange]

I really feel for you, i think i could very easily find myself in your position actually. Its all the bloody money worry isn't it. My DP is self employed and its so very stressfull. What does your DH do? Is there a way you can maybe help out with the business to take some of the stress away from him - be a team with it. It may well strengthen your relationship. I know that i have wanted to walk away from DP and he me, but its not each other we want an end to, its the struggle,the situation with debts and trying to keep the money coming in.

I think these are the conversations you need to be having, how to deal with the finances. Could you downsize? take some of the pressure off that way? Keep it practical - make a plan, together? If you have debts, contact The national debt line or Consumer Credit Counselling Service. It made all the difference for us.

I hope i will be with my DP forever, but if i am not, it will only be due to money worries. It can dessimate a relationship.

As for the holiday - i think that is sensible, but just don't hang all your hopes on it.

[MadAboutHotChoc]

I think you need to look at why he is confiding in this friend's wife and not you - this is totally inappropriate and needs addressing if there is to be any chance of a successful reconciliation.

Not sure if I have already posted this link but this explains why we think he is having an inappropriate relationship with this woman:

www.shirleyglass.com/quizfriendship.php

[skyebluesapphire]

Hi there, thanks for the link. Yes I do get what your saying and I do think it is an inappropriate relationship and I have told him that a few weeks ago when I confronted him about the texts. It is in the book that I am reading and it states that people can start an inappropriate relationship if they are down, feeling neglected, unappreciated etc, then they turn to somebody else who makes them feel good. I do think this is totally one sided though, that maybe he started to think she was wonderful and Im not, but nothing has happened and I am prepared to come through it if my husband is prepared to face up to it and reduce the level of contact with her. He is now texting the husband a lot as well.

I told him that he checked out of our relationship and into theirs, he told her all his problems and how unhappy he was, when he should have been telling me. He honestly didnt realise how much they were texting until I pointed it out to him. She was totally apologetic too and didnt think about the consequences of her actions. She has told him that he should be telling me how he feels about everything, not her.

[PooPooInMyToes]

I agree that i don't like the way he is confiding so much in this woman. At one point it was a HUGE amount of texts. Totally inappropriate. You don't seem to mind that he's probably been attracted to her and that's up to you. But from what i can see not much has changed. He is still in constant contact with her but its just that he doesn't need to text her anymore because he living with her!

I really, really think you need to back off. This man has left you. It seems he's told you he's not attracted to you anymore, its over, doesn't love you etc, yet you are planning to take him on your holiday.

I also get the impression that he partly values your worth based on how good you are with the housework! WTF! Now he lives with the other woman and has seen that she's not great with it either and so actually on reflection you will have to do.

Is that really what you look for in a man?

[skyebluesapphire]

We are having a trial separation, his thinking has totally changed in the past 4 weeks since he left, he is now prepared to try, which is totally different to saying its over. He hit rock bottom, panicked and walked out rather than trying to sort everything out. I accept that he had an infatuation with her, he made himself feel better by trying to help her. I can see past that.

He tried to deny attraction and feelings, yet for the past 2 nights we have been snogging like teenagers.... its all still there and he is starting to see that for himself. that is exactly why I suggested that we date, to see what happened and try to prove to him that the feelings are there! Thank god I did, rather than just let him walk away!

He didnt value my worth on the housework, the house just became a tip because I was so busy working I didnt take care of anything and he just got fed up with it, as a man working long hours may well do if he comes home to a mess that depressed both of us day after day. I just meant its done him some good to see what real life is like in someone elses house.

At the end of the day this is my marriage and if I want to save it, its up to me if I want to try that rather than get divorced, lose the man I love, upset my daughter etc etc etc. My husband is now in a totally different place mentally than he was 4 weeks ago and its looking much better for the future.

[midwife99]

Fingers crossed then - only you & he know the truth. This has to be the last chance surely? It's not the first time he's left is it?

[PooPooInMyToes]

that is exactly why I suggested that we date, to see what happened and try to prove to him that the feelings are there! Thank god I did, rather than just let him walk away!

You shouldn't need to prove anything to him. You shouldn't need to show him that he has feelings for you or do things to earn his feelings back for eg you were saying you needed to act all sweetness and light to make him remember that he loved you. Wheres his responsibility here for figuring it out for himself!?

I can say i would want to convince a man that he loved me and to behave a certain way to do that. Sorry if this sounds harsh but i have too much self respect for that.

I can't help but feel that you treat him like a child. This man who doesn't know his own mind so needs showing by you. You are not giving him enough responsibility for his own actions.

[lucyellensmumnamechange]

If he was that bothered by the state of, the huse he could have helped! You were working too

[PooPooInMyToes]

He didnt value my worth on the housework, the house just became a tip because I was so busy working I didnt take care of anything and he just got fed up with it, as a man working long hours may well do if he comes home to a mess that depressed both of us day after day.

Is this the 1950s? Why are you completely responsible for the housework? Especially if you are both working! I assume you do the majority of the childcare as well?

The "as a man working long hours" bit just blew my mind!

What about you as a woman working and looking after your child when not as work, getting fed up of being the one who has to do all the housework and has to live with a man who takes no responsibility for anything or himself, who sends hundreds of texts to another woman, who needs someone to explain to him that he does indeed love his wife, who needs to see that other women aren't perfect housekeepers either to be able to even consider coming back to you? But only after you've earned it by cleaning up the house and turning yourself into a woman whose like a carefree young girl again to please him rather than the reality which is a woman with stresses and responsibilities. How long can you keep up the act and why should you? What is he a man child! Doesn't like the realities of family life? Tough fucking shit! I wouldn't like the reality of living with a man like that either.

What about you? You're not getting a great deal here are you? Is this man really worth it? This man who might come back to you if you can be perfect from now on.

What do you actually get from him because from what I've read its all about what he needs and wants and how you can contort yourself to provide that.

[midwife99]

Perhaps he'd like to pay for a cleaner - oh no, I forgot, you earn the majority of the money because he can't hold down a job because people "upset him"! Oh god!!!!!!!

[PooPooInMyToes]

I forgot about that midwife! He really IS a manchild!

Do you like being mother to your husband op?

God the more i read about this guy the more i think he is a massive twat. You seem to have so much love and respect for him yet i can't see why. Hopefully its because he's actually a nice bloke rather than because you have low self esteem and don't think you deserve any better.

[skyebluesapphire]

He is self employed and works long hours, never knows what he is doing from day to day. I work part time from home mainly and also go out to clients, and try and work around my daughters preschool hours. I took on too much work to cope with and let everything else slide. I was working evenings, weekends, barely speaking to him some days as I was so busy. I didnt know when to switch off. Believe me, he did his fair share of the work, more than, he was doing all the washing, drying and putting the clothes away, sorted out the cats, did the bins and the recyclying and usually the hoovering as well. He would mop the kitchen and bathroom floors. He put our daughter to bed every night. I cleaned the kitchen, bathroom, and did the cooking and we shared the dishes. He started to give up because he felt that whatever he did wasnt appreciated and didnt make a difference to the state that the place was in, he lost all motivation to want to do anything. and I understand that as I felt completely the same and therefore nothing got done and it got worse and worse... He said that one day he tidied up the kitchen and I came home and instead of being grateful just moaned at him because he had put everything on the living room table and then I threw it all back in the kitchen. (my point being that when you tidy a room you need to find a home for everything, not just move it from one room to another....) but instead of him saying he was pissed off at the time, he bottled it up for months along with everything else, so when he blew months later, I can barely remember what he is talking about, but to him its a major problem...

As a professional person, I used to earn more than him pre daughter, but now he is the main earner and happy to work the hours so that I can stay at home and not work full time. we did share the chores but I think it had got to the point that he did more than I did and he was working full time and I wasnt. He can earn good money if he puts the hours in, but he felt that I moaned if he worked weekends or came home late at night, so nothing he could do was right, that was how he felt in the end.

He doesnt want me to be perfect, he just wants me to pull my weight, which I totally agree with. I can be lazy I know that. I used to watch an awful lot of tv in the evenings instead of sorting out the tea dishes etc, and then they would still be there the next day. but some nights I was working at home until 9pm, then would get tea, by the time we had eaten it was 10pm, then its too late to want to do anything other than veg out in front the tv....All I am trying to do is see my own faults and accept them, not blame him for everything. We have agreed to lay the blame 50/50, in order that we can move on from here.....

Before we both got stressed out and life turned shit, we had a wonderful life together. He is a very kind caring considerate generous man who would have done anything for me to make me happy. He was a wonderful father who doted on his daughter. I was so lucky compared to hearing friends talking about their husband and I took him for granted and I treated him like shit without realising it..... and without realising what it was doing to our marriage.. we simply didnt spend enough time together in the last few months.

I know that I cant make him love me, but I also know from past experience that he just blows up, makes a decision and then later regrets it and is too insecure and lacking in confidence to try and change what he has done. If that is what has happened then we can get this back.

[tribpot]

You seem to see it as your responsibility to look after his feelings and his house, OP. Does he feel a similar sense of responsibility to you? Have you discussed how his abandonment has made you feel, or is that all to be shut up in the box of 'stuff in the past'?

I worry that you will have to maintain a fiction of 1950s perfection for fear of him walking out again. You want to work on your marriage, but does he? It seems like you're making all the running here; as you seem quite fond of gender generalisations, is that what you think women should do?

[skyebluesapphire]

god no, not at all, I am not a feminist, but I grew up with a MCP for a father, who simply has to demand a cup of tea and my mum will run and get it. He will walk past the kettle and go and sit down and then demand a cup. I would tell him to FO! The trouble is I said I would never be a doormat like her and be walked all over, and would not end up with a man who treated me like that, but I think I ended up with a man who let me walk over him instead :-( because he was too quiet to say if he was unhappy. I have apologised to him for that and he accepts that he is to blame for not speaking up as Im not a mind reader. I never controlled him, or ordered him around, I am just quite organised and he isnt...... I think that we need to take equal responsiblity for the work in the house and for our feelings. He knows how badly he has hurt me and his daughter, I have been able to tell him that.

He has always liked the fact that I am confident and professional, he doesnt want a wife in a pinny in the kitchen.

[PooPooInMyToes]

I took on too much work to cope with and let everything else slide.

So why didn't he support you in that?

Why are you apparently the one who took on too much work? Why is it not him? Why does his work and what he wants to do take priority?

He said that one day he tidied up the kitchen and I came home and instead of being grateful just moaned at him because he had put everything on the living room table and then I threw it all back in the kitchen. (my point being that when you tidy a room you need to find a home for everything, not just move it from one room to another....) but instead of him saying he was pissed off at the time, he bottled it up for months along with everything else, so when he blew months later, I can barely remember what he is talking about, but to him its a major problem...

Well you had a hell of a point there! You come home and find the contents of one room piled in another, of course you are annoyed. Did he have any intention of sorting it out? Twat.

So he sulked about you pointing out his error for months and took offence and left? . . . You do realise that he's done exactly the same to you as he has with his jobs. You upset him so he left.

He's a man who can't take any sort of criticism. If any does come his way he can't be in that job or with that person anymore. Thats hugely dysfunctional and he will teach that way of reacting to criticism, constructive or otherwise to your daughter.

He needs help if he has to cut off anyone who dare criticise him. This isn't your fault its his own rather major issue.

[AnyFucker]

OP, the more I read your posts, the more it seems that the vision in your head of this man bears no resemblance to the reality of him

you are doing a very good job of convincing yourself ...the rest of us here ? Not so much...