how to move on to possible reconciliation while ignoring the elephant in the room..

[skyebluesapphire]

I have posted on a different thread in a different name about the fact my husband walked out on me..... he didnt tell me what was wrong, bottled everything up til he walked out, he is living elsewhere, calling this a temporary separation while we work out if it really is it, although he walked out saying that it was over... has since agreed to go out with me, just the two of us to see if there is anything left. we have been communicating quite well by text, but if we get anywhere near discussing issues, he backs off, saying that there is no point in going over everything as we keep saying the same stuff over. I wrote him a long letter detailing how I think everything went downhill, stress, illness etc, which he has read over several times and is writing a reply. I am hoping that communicating in this way takes the pressure off him a bit.

We are going out at the weekend, and I know that I need to stay happy and positive about this now and on the day, or there will be no point in going..

my concern now that I am really struggling with, is this... How the hell can we move on if he wont discuss the problems... It is very difficult for me to be nice and happy etc when he has walked out on me and 4 year old daughter. But obviously he is not going to want to spend time with sad moody cow, which will only reinforce him thinking he has made the right decision. So I need to be sweetness and light and remind him of the person he fell in love with, so he can work out how he really feels about me. D

I am hoping that it will go something like this, have a few dates, reconnect on some level, spend more time together, then discuss issues, more than half of which are already resolved, so we can move on and hopefully reconcile? We just have to ignore the sodding large elephant in the middle of the room for the moment??

AARRGGHH!!!

AF & CF - I feel v uncomfortable too. Kinda like the self denial & martyrdom is making me feel ill

damn.

i wish i could behave like a stroppy impulsive uncommunicative toddler and have my DH make 1,000,000 excuses for me doing so.

must be nice be completely free of all responsibility

See the elephant in the room for what it is; a reminder that any time you criticise him, or any time he perceives anything you say or do as criticism, you'll be responsible for him leaving you hours/days/weeks/months later.

Sapphire - do you not think it strange that not one person had said shut up you negative cows, OP is right, it's lovely she's trying to get him back? He sounds great!

This will sound awful but I think the likely scenario is the other woman has given him the brush off.

I doubt it, Cervix.

The ow is away for the weekend with her h, most probably fulfilling some longstanding engagement or other prebooked event, and I suspect that she's given the OP's h permission to amuse himself in her absence knowing full well she can reel him in again if he looks like wriggling off her hook.

Apparently he's begun sending copious texts to the ow's h. Menage a trois or surrogate dps? Whatever the arrangement, this particular poor diddums seems to have a propensity for landing on his feet. Could it be the way he plays the violin?

OP, izzy is right. If he deigns to return, the next time you are not there, smiling, hving sex, needing things from him, he will be gone again, and you will be living under the threat that in his eyes you are not good enough.

The excuses you make for him and examples of how you have allegedly let him down are not valid. Criticism, working too much etc, are just ordinary relationship stuff. Hardly equates to texting another woman thousands of times, walking out on you and dd, stringing you along.

What could be more exciting for him than "snogging like teenagers" and having his tea cooked, while having no actual responsibilities? It doesn't mean he loves you.

Have you looked into the finances yet?

I think not, presumably it takes too much energy trying to win him back and think up excuses for him.

On your other thread you mentioned that he isn't always good to DD, that at times you struggle with her too, and that her behaviour was a factor in the breakdown of the relationship ( another poster pulled you up on that one). What will you do to address his / your skills as a parent? Blame Dd?

"life" may settle down now, but will inevitably not remain calm forever. Shit happens, and if this is how he reacts, and he's unwilling to take responsibility, he will let you and DD down again. Will you have another baby? What happens then when she/he screams all night, has tantrums etc? What if you get sick, will he support you and take care of the DC?

Please, at the very least, go to counselling to discuss this relationship and situation on your own. He could go to someone else. Joint counselling prob not a good plan in this case, it will surely just help him to blame you more and you to feed your self-flagellation.

I agree with MadAboutChocolate

OP - from time immemorial, women have been describing men who have difficulty communicating and men who "act out" as "sensitive and deep". And have been hurt by them.

We are all deep, we are all sensitive. If he has not dealt with (and possibly doesn't recognise) the way his upbringing has affected him you can't do it for him.

He has you totally sorted doesn't he OP?

You can't save a marriage all by yourself. You can't repair something if you don't know where the break is. If he won't talk and you can't move in unless he does, then you're at an impasse. Counselling might help if he's willing. But don't beat yourself up. You're only one person.

On your other thread you mentioned that he isn't always good to DD, that at times you struggle with her too, and that her behaviour was a factor in the breakdown of the relationship Is that so, Dozer?

Surely a man who's a 'deep' thinker and a 'sensitive' soul, and who's had a shit childhood himself, will go to extraordinary lengths to make his dc feel loved and secure at all times?

Do tell, OP. How the fuck has a 4yo contributed to the breakdown of your marriage? Is she the spawn of the devil or could it be her df is so completely up himself that he doesn't give a shit about his own dd's needs?

If you raise your dd to believe that she's got to tiptoe around on the same eggshells that he's laid down for you, she'll become a woman with her own elephant to remind her that men are creatures that must be appeased or they'll do a runner.

I don't raise the issue with DD to be horrible to sapphire, it just seems like another big, important issue that sapphire isn't talking about.

Lissa's posts from the other thread

"oh god, I can understand where you are coming from.. my daughter is 4 and my husband has just walked out on us. I feel myself getting so frustrated with her when she wont pick up the toys or get ready for bed, that I nearly end up screaming at her...

I know we are going through a bad time and I want to make life nice for her, not be shouting at her, but I just end up in tears because she just defies me all the time. i did an incredible years course, but its not been much help as the time out thing just doesnt work with her.....

I tell myself that she is only 4 and I am the adult here. who else do you scream at in life if they dont do what you want? I dont talk to adults like that, so cant allow myself to scream at her, but it is very difficult, especially at the moment.. The stress caused by her has been one of many factors in the breakdown of my marriage im sure as my husband would come home and Id be like, just get her out of my face she is doing my head in and he hadnt been here all day to see what its like..."

(in response to the poster who said that sapphire/lissa shouldn't blame dd for marital problems) "in my defence, she has had both me and my husband at breaking point with her behaviour, she simply will not do what she is told and it has caused problems with my MIL. it has stressed us both out and has caused problems between us, that is what I meant. I didnt want to smack her, husband did. i stopped shouting at her, husband didnt. That is what I meant by it being a problem. It is only a very small part of the overall stress created by many different things, but it has been a part of it.

of course I would never ever let her know that, of course its not her fault"

Your DH wanted to smack DD?

I have no doubt that in raising this issue you have acted in the best interests of the OP, Dozer.

It seems that the OP has got more than one elephant in the room and she's going to have her work cut out to sweep her dd under the carpet of eggshells whenever the child doesn't please her df.

We do make our daughter feel loved and secure, however she is a very wilful child and had me in tears at her behaviour, throwing things at me, hitting me, knocking things off shop shelves. She would not do a single thing she was told, just ignored me all the time. I did an Incredible Years course and got support from my local childrens centre in addressing her behaviour and it is much better now. They made me see that a lot of it was down to attention seeking because I was working so much and not giving her the attention that she needed when at home. I am not having any more children, I had severe sickness and SPD in pregnancy and was advised against having any more by my consultant, plus I have just turned 40. We constantly praise her daughter when she does things, we play with her, make things with her, take her swimming, to the park, do playdoh, play in the garden and have cuddles watching tv, reading books etc.

Her behaviour caused a lot of stress between us because we felt we were always shouting at her and telling her off all the time and I didnt want it to be like that. We got to the point that we felt we couldnt take her anywhere as she simply wouldnt behave and either ended up breaking things or hurting herself because she wouldnt do what she was told. I would spend all day with her and be at the end of my tether and he would come home for me to say do something with her, shes doing my head in and Im trying to cook tea etc. So he was coming home day after day to a house that was in such a mess it depressed both of us, to a wife that could barely be bothered to smile and say hello to him, and a child that was just trashing the place. and yes, that may be family life for a lot of people, but it never used to be like it for us. We just went through a really bad patch...

We have had a fantastic weekend together, my husband IS trying to repair the relationship. He is very stubborn and if he really felt it was over, there is no way he would be doing this. There is nothing going on with the friends wife of that I am certain. I know it looks bad with all the texting, but none of you know my husband. Yes, what he did was wrong in turning to her, but he just finds it very difficult to talk about his feelings. He is putting everything in a letter to me as he simply cannot talk about the way he feels about all of this. Having talked to a friend who is a councellor, she suggested that this was the best thing for him to do. His brother has now told me that he has done this before, and he always turns to a married friends wife (including the brothers own wife in the past ) as he feels safe with them, because they are married, and he can talk to them.

He asked me to go to the soft play with them, so I did for an hour, then he took her off and yes I did cook him tea because my daughter wanted him to stay for tea. He relaxed in the house for the first time in 4 weeks. He is definitely feeling better about everything.

I have said that we can draw a line under the past, once I have read his letter and dealt with it, but that ongoing there is no future if he cannot talk to me ongoing about stuff, or we will just end up back here again. I am very much aware that he has to be certain that its going to work, as for our daughter's sake, he cant come back and then go again... he didnt just leave because of the state of the house, it was one small issues amongst several others, that we both contributed to. I have to accept blame because I was so stressed out with work that I can see now that I wasnt very nice to live with at times. I am not taking all the blame, but I am certainly not blameless.

As for 1950's housewife, I am far from it. I believe that men and women should do an equal share of housework, if both working long hours, unfortunately, he ended up doing more than me! He would mop floors, hoover up, do all the washing, drying and putting away. He put our daughter to bed, still had all his business paperwork to do as well. He did the bins, recycling etc. I cooked the meals and sorted the dishwasher and cleaned the kitchen and bathroom and bedrooms. He was always a totally hands on father right from her birth, feeding her, changing her, bathing and showering her. He has been a fantastic father with her.

I don't deserve nasty comments as some of you have put on here. Not every husband is having an affair, not every marriage that separates is totally broken. I want to save my marriage if I can, for my daughters sake, but only if we are both sure that its what we want and that its going to work.

the posts that you quote above about what I said about my daughter are what I posted on somebody else's thread where she was having problems with her own child not doing as she was told. I did not post those comments in my own thread......

and yes we both smacked our daughter as it was the only thing that stopped her bad behaviour. It was the last resort and did not happen all the time by any means. The childrens centre dont condone smacking and that is why I did the parenting course, to find other ways of dealing with her behaviour.

I do not smack my daughter now and neither does my husband.

Has he done the parenting course you did, or reduced his working hours? Did the people on the course tell you that the reason her behaviour was challenging was because you worked, or was that your DH's interpretation?

Also, after a full day with a challenging child, who would be sweetness and light at the end? How often did/does he look after her for a full day?

MN is a forum where people will be blunt and harsh, but on this thread everyone has good intentions. You are pursuing a course that most people, here or in RL, would consider unwise, and haven't taken one iota of people's advice, even the mild and practical.

You didn't post them here sapphire, no, but they are relevant.

Omigod. Due to an incoming phone call, I crossposted with you, Dozer.

I didnt want to smack her, husband did. i stopped shouting at her, husband didnt WTF? He's not just an arse; he's a child abusing arse.

He physically, verbally, and emotionally, abuses his dd but that's only a very small part of the overall stress created by many different things?

There's a veritable herd of elephants in the room and the OP's response is to become an ostrich.

This poor little girl's life has already been blighted by having parents who are self-centred and abusive airheads.

I think that was bad form to post those comments from another thread on here dozer, I really do.

As Skye said, they did not come from the thread about her marriage breakdown but an enitrely different thread.

That is unacceptable - whether relevant or not.

Lots of people - well everyone, myself included - are trying to help OP and challenge perceived delusions. Bu tat does not mean anyone should be beating her into submission I think you/we have all made our/your points.

If OP needs to talk in the future, if things don't pan out as she hopes then she needs to feel she can come back here and be supported.

Enough now.

Izzy for goodness sake, you can't call OP abusive.

This thread is not about smacking. My husband is not abusive. We both shouted at her, we both smacked her and neither of us are abusive. I am not here to discuss smacking. I am by no means the only parent who smacks their child. I no longer smack my child as I couldnt tell her to stop smacking me if I was smacking her, so it was not the right thing to do I can see that. But that is not what this post is about. Everybody makes mistakes and we have dealt with ours.

My daughter is happy, secure (well as much as she can be at the moment) and she loves us both very much as do we her.

Calling me a self centred abusive airhead is downright nasty as I am none of those things and neither is my husband.

It was the childrens centre who made me realise that she was attention seeking, not my husband. I told him everything the course said and then we tried to work together to use some of their methods to address her behaviour. Time out doesnt work with her, but confiscating toys etc does. Every child is different. and she did cause stress between us and I have several friends who say exactly the same thing. Daddy wants to come home to the fantasy of a clean house, happy smiling wife and child, whereas the reality is a mess, a frazzled wife and a screaming child.

It is a fantasy - that is the point. Of course he can be lovely all weekend when all he has to do is go on dates, snog like a teenager & take DD to a soft play area. I hope he can man up if he returns to real life. More importantly I hope you can get the support you need.