Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What to do? (EA? SA?) Legal advice needed as well please - warning, it is extremely long!

493 replies

StickorFold · 25/04/2012 10:57

This is going to be long and warbled, and might not make too much sense, maybe a bit bitty, but will try and put as much as much detail in as I can so I'm not adding to it after.

Firstly, I am an old MN'er, used to be a prolific poster, so it may be that the odd one of you may work out who I am, I would really appreciate it if anyone that suspects just keeps it to themselves please.

Secondly, think it goes against MN rules to have two accounts, though I hope for this one occasion we can over look this, as it is the only way I feel safe enough to get this out and hopefully gain some advice.

Thirdly, I may not be able to reply as ofter as I'd like, but will try my best to get on when I can.

OK, so, background: H and I have been married for 11 and a half years, three children, he is a good, loving dad, he works extremely hard (60hrs a month), he is ace at helping out around the house, he does most of the cooking, involved in bath times/bedtimes (when he is here), he does put the kids first in everything, and that reason, and that reason alone, is the only reason we are still together now.

I also work, of sorts, I have two failed/failing businesses under my belt, and am now working part time while youngest is at nursery and the older two are in school, plus evenings/weekends (17-20 hrs a week). I will be coming back to my 'job' in a bit.

His 13 years older than me, we met when I was 17, moved into a flat together, got engaged, got married, and (planned) DC within 3 months of us meeting. At the time, I thought he really must have loved me, now realise he pushed us both into it, nearly losing my family along the way (didn't speak to my lovely mum for over a year, she missed my eledest's pregnancy/birth/first xmas etc.), I lost all of my friends, he didn't have any as he had moved from a different part of the country to be with me, because he loved me soooo much Hmm

He told me about a week before we got married that he had two children, by different women, that were only 5 and 6 years younger than me (the children!). He said he was young and stupid and that he'd never seen either of them, though he did pay a very small amount of CSA (big of him, eh? WHY couldn't I see it at the time? Angry) I have since found out that actually he did live with the mother of the second child for a while after she was born, but that it didn't work out, so all the 'firsts' we were doing to gether with our first child, weren't actually his firsts at all Sad.

He'd had a long term relationship with someone who he said he never wanted to marry, or have children with, even though she wanted to desperately, he apparently just left her one day, and then met me within 4/5 months and declaired his undying love ("I didn't love her enough, she was nothing like you, didn't I prove that when I married you and not her?")

He had a difficult upbringing, don't want to go into too much detail as I don't feel that would be fair of me, but, very quickly, his mum left him, his older siblings and his dad when H was very young, and by the time he was a young teen, his siblings had all moved out, and his dad had practically moved in with a new lady, H was fending for himself from 14yo.

Over the course of our marriage, I have obviously matured from being a 17yo girl (in essence), and over the last 3-4 years I have come to realise that H is (subtly) EA. He was very controlling over a friendship I had with a girl, to the point where we ended up moving 30 miles away, which was very convieniant for him. And it was the turning point in my mind, I could see as clear as day what was going on, what he was doing to me, and I told him we were over, neither of us could afford to move out, so we carried on staying under the same roof, big mistake, within a month, you'd never know we were going to split. I have now 'lost touch' with my friend, and have no others.

Since then, I have done a fair amount of burying my head in the sand, trying to 'tune in' to when he was preasuring me in any way etc. couple of times I known for sure and talked to him about it, he always wormed his way out of it, and after a few days of uncomfortableness (for me) I'd get over it and it was placed under that very lumpy carpet, with all the rest of the shit.

Throughout the whole time we have been a family, he has always (and I believe will always) love the kids wholely, and properly, there are a couple of very small odd things that have become sticking points over the years (e.g. he insists that when we all eat dinner, we don't cut into a boiled potato (or whatever) and just eat the potato, we also cut a bit of the fish (or whatever!) and eat the fish and potato at the same time, I know that is really odd, but it is just one of the tiny things that sticks in my head) He also can never seem to manage the small things we ask of him, e.g. I have two sugars in my cup of tea, he never ever puts two in, why not? Hmm

About two-ish years ago, I got very drunk, with him at home, saturday night, overdid the wine, not a regular occurance. When I woke up in the morning I thought I could remember him having sex with me in the middle of the night, I asked him and he denied it, I questioned myself (was I that drunk/dreaming?) but (sorry for TMI) I found the 'evidence' as I went to the bathroom, if you follow my drift? So I knew he had, I thought maybe he was drunk as well and couldn't remember. Wrote it off as a strange night.

Since then I have woken up to feeling him ejaculating on me, or wiping me with his t-shirt after he has ejaculated on me, or woken up just as he has tried to actually put his willy in me, sometimes I have asked him what the bloody hell he thinks he's doing, sometimes I just pretend I'm still asleep. Any time I bring it up, I apparently should feel lucky that he still wants me after so long, and after the children, and if I was more willing he wouldn't have to resort to these measures. Now I am the first one to admit, our sex life has suffered over the years, we tend to go in spits and spats, sometimes it can be two or three weeks, sometimes 5 or 6 times a week, no pattern to it, sometimes it is when I am most angry/hurt that we have more sex, not sure if that is me trying to regain some control?

Money has always been a problem, we've never seemed to have enough(!) (though TBF we have never been as tight as it is right now, now we are struggling for food at times, whereas, whilst there might not have been much left over 12 months ago, there was some) I was a SAHM until 2 years ago, I have tried and failed two different businesses (trying to work around child care etc.) neither of which had big outlays, but both of which really needed money for advertising that we just didn't/haven't got.

H point blank refused for me to get a part-time evening job, either in a bar/shop/etc. Saying that we'd never see each other, I'd miss the kid's bedtimes etc. But we were desperate for money. That stupid bloody program came on the telly about the phone sex line girls, H jumped on it, said it was be perfect for me, I could do it while the kids were out, and maybe some evenings to get extra money in, and that it might open my mind a bit and give us a boost in our sex lives. So for the past 4 weeks I have spent many evenings, in and out of the garage conversion, to deal with bedtimes etc. while trying to take/dodge calls from people. He will say things like "Did you touch yourself for any of them?" "Have you made much on your wank line?" "Oooo, bet you're all turned on now, talking to those other men". He sits in the living room watching the phone to know exactly when I'm on the phone and when I'm not, watching porn, sending me pictures of his errect penis over a photo of me, sending videos of himself wanking over pictures of me on the laptop etc. This is all supposed to get me in the mood... Hmm and Sad and Angry.

So, after a shit week last week, and having made some extra money, I went and bought us some wine on Saturday, I drank nearly two bottles (again, I like wine, but not usually that much!) H actually poured the last glass of the second bottle but I said I'd had enough and was going to bed, we had sex and I went to sleep. Next thing I remember waking up, he was on top of me, having sex with me, my legs were closed underneath him, he was completely squashing me, I was whimpering, actually whimpering (makes my bloody boil when I think how I was), I was saying no, ow, no, but strangely, I wasn't screaming and shouting it, or trying to move away or anything, I was just a pathetic whimpering heap, why didn't I try to stop him? He ejeculated in me and gave me an extra tight squeeze, and rolled off me. I asked him why he just carried on when I was saying no, and he said he thought I was moaning in pleasure Hmm He asked if we were ok, I said yes, rolled over and went to sleep.

He spent Sunday morning walking on egg shells, being extra nice, I didn't say a word about it and just acted normal, thinking I needed time to work out what I was going to do, and it was best to keep my cards to my chest as it were.

Yesturday we got into bed, he asked, actually asked, out of the blue, "can I cum on you?" I said no in a lighttone and pointed to the bathroom, he seemed to shrug it off, gave me a kiss on my cheek, turned over and started to fall asleep, I turned over and led there with my eyes open, he obviously presumed I was asleep, he started wanking, I purposefully moved to see what he would do, he just carried straight on, I heard/felt him get his t-shirt to clean up (it is always his t-shirts) and then he was asleep, I came downstairs and cried. He has absolutely no respect for me, I think the porn thing is playing a part in this, he never (seemed to) used it before a couple of years ago, and slowly but steadily, he has been using it more, and in the same time frame I am becoming more and more of his object to do with as he pleases, when he pleases.

So, for anyone that has got this far (and bloody well done if you did!) firstly, am I being unfair on the kids to take them away from their dad when he is brilliant with them? They love him to bits, it will break their hearts and I don't want to risk being the cause of the that.

Secondly, we rent our house (both names on tenancy), he owns the car but I drive it 99% of the time, we have no savings etc. My mum lives 200 miles away and it is the only place I could go. The only way I can get away from him, with some money in my pocket to get us there and a means of getting us there is if when he next get's paid (last working day of each month) to move some money from our joint account to my own, (this will leave bills here unpaid), take the car, pack up everything I can get in it, and take the kids and I to my mums. He will know exactly where I am, I'm not scared of him, but the fact I have cut all ties (except the kids obv.), will show him that we are over. He will hate it, he will hate me for doing it, but he will calm down fairly quickly, and realise he's pushed it too far, for the sake of seeing the kids.

Would I be facing any legal repercussions in taking the car/money? I just dont know how else to do it.

Right, this is humongous, I am sure I still haven't given all the details, but I really just wanted to get as much as I could down. Thanks to anyone who has made it to the end, and if anyone has any advice, I am all eyes ears.

OP posts:
StickorFold · 25/04/2012 17:57

OK must be quick, he will be home in 10.

If I don't answer the phone he will know something is up and will come home at lunch, I wanted to leave him a letter (I will not be saying sorry!) I want to explain to him what I would like him to do, i.e. an outline of what I will tell the kids, a time that he can ring them in the evening (normal thing we do when he is not there at bed time) trying to keep it normal-ish for them. If he comes home, finds the letter, the first thing he'll do is get back in his van and drive to my mums, I am fully expecting him to ignore my wishes in the letter and do this anyway, and I can handle him finding me at mums, but not before I get there, if he finds me before I get there, we'll be home in time for tea, I am sure of it.

Luckily, mum has just moved house, I actually don't know her exact address, but I know the house, (and will obviously check with her on Monday for sure)but it means her address is not written down anywhere, so he won't know exactly where we are. That gives me a fairly big stick to shake.

I think I need to find an excuse as to why I won't be contactable on the phone on that day, but just can't for the life of me think of one? Usually on a Tuesday, kids at school DS3 at nursery till 12, I have been doing the phone lines, don't know how to become uncontactable in those circs?

Right really must go, should be able to read your comments though.

Thanks again, to everyone, it has been hard to read and hard to write, but no tears today, not even angry ones. Is the end in sight?!

OP posts:
gafhyb · 25/04/2012 19:03

This is almost unreadable. What a pitiful excuse for a man.

gafhyb · 25/04/2012 19:05

Sorry that was me just venting. Please stay angry. We all feel angry on your behalf. Please protect yourself.

ImperialBlether · 25/04/2012 19:12

I'm not sure you're doing this the right way, OP. If he isn't violent to you (and sorry, I know he's raped you but from what you said he doesn't hit you) then I think you would be better telling him it's over, giivng your son a chance to say goodbye to everyone at school (I think that could be quite damaging for him, just taking him away like that) and then moving to your mum's.

You say he will chase after you - I would hate the thought of that confrontation. It would scare the life out of me.

I don't think you can just take your name off bills and expect not to be responsible for the bills. I'm sure someone on here will have been through that but it seems very unlikely that you can ring British Gas etc and say, "I'm not in the house now; send the bill to my ex" without them saying, "Hang on, you owe us, too."

When you say you are telling the chatline that you're moving bank account, do you mean you'll continue to work for them?

I think you should leave him - he sounds absolutely awful - but I don't think you should (or even should have to) leave in that kind of way.

Chubfuddler · 25/04/2012 19:14

She owes him nothing Imperial. Nothing at all.

ImperialBlether · 25/04/2012 19:15

I don't think she owes him anything, really I don't. I just think that it puts her in a strong position if she tells him it's over, tells him why, then leaves, rather than running away.

MooncupGoddess · 25/04/2012 19:18

But he is a habitual rapist, Imperial - it's not much of a stretch to think he might turn violent. And I think the OP wants to get away without him trying to 'persuade' her back, which again is very understandable.

Chubfuddler · 25/04/2012 19:18

You would recommend the op sit down and have a polite discussion with a man in the habit of raping her, and controlling how she puts her food on her fork ffs. He hasn't hit her - yet. I'm sure that would change if she tried a face to face.

Your advice is incomprehensibly misguided.

By the way, rape is violence.

gafhyb · 25/04/2012 19:19

yes

MooncupGoddess · 25/04/2012 19:20

Re the excuse on Tuesday, OP. If you're on the phone lines then surely you can use that as an excuse not to speak to him? Just text him saying 'busy morning today, speak later'?

Or could you tell him you're feeling ill, might be coming down with something, so you're going to go back to bed and try to sleep it off?

oikopolis · 25/04/2012 19:41

IB can you agree that the right thing to do when you are faced with danger is to run? there is no such thing as "leaving in that way". there is just leaving safely.

OP's DH is a danger to her. perhaps you feel that psychological and sexual danger isn't "real" danger? i disagree, and so does the law.

rape is extreme violence. it cuts to the core of personhood. it's a crime that makes an object of the victim, that reduces her to less than human in the eyes of the perpetrator (and often in her own eyes). it's easier to recover from a slap or a shove, than it is to recover from rape IME.

trying to calmly explain to a rapist-abuser that you are leaving him is NOT the right thing to do.

OP i think your plan is fantastic and that you, too are pretty fantastic!

MummytoKatie · 25/04/2012 20:00

Op - I think that you should talk to Women's Aid. They will be brilliant at helping you perfect your plan.

I think you are absolutely doing the right thing in leaving.

MyNameIsntFUCKINGWarren · 25/04/2012 20:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foolonthehill · 25/04/2012 20:33

Do it how you've planned. maybe leave the home phone off the hook so it looks like you are busy and "forget" to charge your phone, you can tell him it's out of charge in the Tues am if you have to...but I think less said the better and certainly don't lie if any more than you have to. Liars like him have a bit of a radar sometimes.

IB I think you are wrong and as abusers are completely unpredictable in the level of violence they use once their control starts to slip, best to leave safely rather than "well". 1/3 of abusive men who killed their partner (in US in 1980's so not very up to date) had never hit them before and would have been assessed as low risk before the homicide.

ImperialBlether · 25/04/2012 20:35

Oik, you said, "IB can you agree that the right thing to do when you are faced with danger is to run? there is no such thing as "leaving in that way". there is just leaving safely.

OP's DH is a danger to her. perhaps you feel that psychological and sexual danger isn't "real" danger? i disagree, and so does the law."

Of course I agree that psychological and sexual danger is real danger. I just feel she would feel better if she took control of the situation now and told him she was going. It would frighten me less, to be honest, to tell him than to leave without telling him - I would think that was going to lead to greater repercussions.

And yes, of course the thing to do is to get out of the situation - I think she should have gone ages ago.

Please don't think I'm not rooting for this OP and wanting her to leave her boyfriend. I think the sooner she goes the better.

Chubfuddler · 25/04/2012 20:40

He's violent and unpredictable. She can't take charge of this situation other than by removing herself from it by whatever means necessary. There's no need for closure. And a non molestation order should be her first step once she gets to her mums.

I can't believe how insanely wrong headed your suggestions are.

mistlethrush · 25/04/2012 20:44

CHub - do you know how she might be able to go about getting a non-molestation order? Because if she could arrange to get one that could be served on him so that he couldn't chase her up to her mother's that would be ideal.

Chubfuddler · 25/04/2012 20:50

A solicitor makes an application to the court for an order, breaching it is an arrestable offence.

There's info on women's aid (sorry can't convert link on iPhone)

www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-survivors-handbook.asp?section=000100010008000100330002

neuroticmumof3 · 25/04/2012 20:51

In your original post you ask if you would face legal repercussions for taking the car or money. I think you may be in trouble if you take his salary out of the account - don't give him any reason to act the victim and send the police after you.

foolonthehill · 25/04/2012 20:56

No, joint account= joint money. Legally anyway. Of course joint debts in this account will be OPs too and so will any other thing he runs up on the account until Op can make it known that she is living separately. (my Oh left me to it with no money and i can't chase him as was joint account0.

OP you must cancel any of his credit cards that are in your name as primary card holder...or you will be liable for debt incurred on them.

If you are feeling honourable you could leave any subsidiary cards that you hold on his primary credit with the letter...fair's fair

FlyingFig · 25/04/2012 21:37

I also think your plan is the right one; I left my exP many years ago and headed to my mum's, with only a few black bin bags and important documents such as birth certificates and my passport. When I got to mum's I rang any utilities services that were in a joint name, dd's nursery, tax credits and the benefits office and told them I'd left. The car wasn't registered in my name, I took it anyway ( I was insured, of course) and in the end my ex signed the log book over to me. I also took a chunk of cash from the joint account when I left, to tide me over and a few weeks down the line, wrote to the bank asking for my name to be taken off the joint account and my benefits were paid into my own account.

Granted my dd's were younger than yours and the abuse wasn't anything like what you're suffering with, but I wanted to post to let you know it's all worked out for me in the end. I've never looked back.

I wish you strength and luck Smile

solidgoldbrass · 25/04/2012 21:48

Please hold one more thought, OP, which is that not only will this man have raped and abused his previous partners, but that he is a danger to his DC as well. And yes, I do mean that there is a strong possibility he will graduate to sexual abuse of DC, because he doesn't see anyone but him as a human being, all of you are objects he owns.
Wishing you luck and joy on your journey away from him. And don't stress about the chatline, I've done loads of phonesex work myself, it's safe and a fairly easy way of earning a few bob if you are comfortable doing it. If you don't like it, just let the company know you've had enough and they will wish you all the best and take your name off the list.

TheHappyHissy · 25/04/2012 22:09

AdelaideAussie if a man denies YOU expression sexually then it's sex on HIS terms only. YOUR need to initiate is rejected.

Ime, the diagram holds true, you just have to let the idea settle. If you wanna talk about it, come over to the EA support thread, or PM me if you prefer?

FlyingFig · 25/04/2012 22:19

TheHappyHissy wrong thread I think?! Smile

MrsMcEnroe · 25/04/2012 22:42

"I suppose what I am looking for is someone to say that it is OK to break my family up, to cause all of the grief and the trouble that it will bring, to leave H here alone with little money, no car and a landlord that will be after him for rent (well I know I'll be facing that as well), and then of course all of the other bills, council tax, we're both on most of the bills."

I know that the thread has moved on since that post OP but yes - it is OK to do those things.

Your husband is a rapist.

You are dreaming if you think your children will be better off having this sorry excuse for a man in their lives, SN or no SN. Yes, I appreciate that it will be very hard for you in the short term when you remove their father from the equation, but please - just think for a moment. If you allow him contact with your children, you are telling those children that it is OK for them to have contact with the man who rapes their mother.

I know this is really, really hard but you have to look at the bigger picture. You owe it to your children to ensure that their rapist father is not part of their upbringing. He is a rapist; he believes that it is OK to demean women. It isn't.

I am so, so sorry that you are in such an awful position. There has been fantastic practical advice on this thread; I hope you can make use of it. I agree that the best thing to do is to leave. And don't waste a moment thinking about how he feels. Yes, you've grown up with him but you now have a chance to grow on your own terms, and to protect your children.

Good luck love, and get out of there. xxx