So...what to do when he hits you and claims he hasn't? LONG

[NiniLegsInTheAir]

Related to:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1448343--to-expect-DH-not-to-deliberately-wake-me-up-early-in-the-mornings

And to a lesser extent on and off here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1451592-Red-flags-I-should-have-heeded-share-yours-for-womenkind

So, 5am this morning he starts screaming at the cat (who is on the windowsill (sometimes she scratches the woodwork but wasn't this morning). He started banging the bed violently with his hands so I told him to get a grip and he punched me on the arm. Which hurt.

He gets up at 6:15 and stomps around the house like he always does (this is where the first thread is relevant), and at half 6 goes into DD's room to get his workclothes - he refuses to sort them out the evening before. And like always, he disturbs her, she thinks he's going to pick her up so when he leaves she starts screaming and crying. So I told him off for waking her and he throws some clothes at me and shouts at me.

I've been stewing all day about the ridiculous morning situation (and how my eyes have been opened by being on this site the last few weeks). So when I got home I moved my clothes into the wardrobe in DD's room, put his clothes on our bed (to sort out after having put DD to bed). So I put her to bed and go downstairs. I put dinner on. Suddenly he walks through the door, a good half hour earlier than normal (and he claimed he was gonna be late tonight).

He comes in, breezy and talking to me normally, which gets my back up straight away. I was a bit frosty so he goes straight upstairs (WHY OH WHY did I not tell him about the clothing arrangement then?! I'm such a fucking idiot). Next thing I know is I hear DD crying.

So I go upstairs. He's playing with her in her cot. She's supposed to be settling to sleep (she's 14 months). He knows that. I asked him "What are you doing?" He says "I'm playing with her." I say "She's supposed to be sleeping." Then I go back downstairs to finish putting dinner on.

Within a few mins I hear her screaming the place down as he's obviously left her now. Not impressed particularly with that. Then there's a great crash from our bedroom. He comes flying downstairs shouting at me "There's mud everywhere now!" I said "What? Why is there mud upstairs?" (a bit confused). He then starts yelling about me moving the clothes and how because of me the clothing rail has broken (no shit Sherlock, its been broken for most of the 3 YEARS I've been using it). So I said to him "You're being too noisy for DD. Why is she crying?" He shouts even louder that he "doesn't fucking know", slams the cupboard door by my foot that he's just taken the dustpan out of and almost knocks me into the boiling saucepan I've got in front of me on the hob.

So I lost it a bit and squared up to him. Can't remember quite what I said - bit of a red mist - something along the lines of being sick to death of him etc etc. So he shoulders me and I went back at him. Then he grabbed me and threw me into the dining room floor, knocking my back and my right knee. And he's screaming at me for "scratching his neck" and how I should "never fight him when he's bigger and stronger than me". I started crying at this point (tears of angry but also my knee was agony) got back up and just let rip with what I thought of him. How much I hate him. How I'm sick to death of him for a whole host of reasons and I won't tolerate being hit by him again. He claims he never hit me. I was totally shocked that he DARED tell me he didn't punch me in the arm this morning. According to him it never happened, please tell me I'm NOT going crazy!

I then let rip, told him exactly what I think of him, what a tosser he is, how worthless he makes me feel, how much I hate him, that it's all over. I told him to stop gaslighting me (ahh how sweet it was to see the confused look on his face when he didn't understand the term ). I told him not to come home tomorrow night as I need some space - "I'm not going anywhere" he said. I told him the door would be locked if he came home (not smart I know). I eventually had to back down and went to the kitchen, finished dinner and ate it alone while he swept up the mud upstairs. Our poor cat was so spset, she kept meowing and rubbing around my legs. I was slumped against the sink and she stood on her back legs and took my hand with both her front paws, it was amazing .

He's now in the bath on the phone and I'm in the bedroom. My right knee is in agony, it's red and feels swollen already (I have bad knees anyway, any knock to them causes this kind of pain). DD is still awake, I went in to her afterwards and cuddled her, she was happily chatting away to me. I can't believe we dragged this innocent little soul into such a shitty life, what kind of mother am I. It's making me weep . The cat is curled up closely next to me.

Turns out the 'mud' was from my little giant sunflower I've been growing for DD that was on the mantelpiece. He swept up the dirt on his stuff but has left any that fell on anything of mine. Just shows what he thinks of me. I'm worthless to him.

I don't know what to do know. My head is in tatters, I can't think straight, I've just written this as it's come to me and it happened over an hour ago. I dont have anywhere to go or anyone to talk to. I will probably sleep in with DD tonight to make sure he doesn't steal her away or something in the morning. Please help!

If you are prepared to take him back, a violent abusive man, and not keep him away from you and your dd, then yes it does look like he/your marriage means more to you.

she needs protecting, and that is your job, if you have him back then you are not doing your job.

sorry to be harsh but you did ask.

No counsellor would take you for couples counselling. It is completely unprofessional and absolutely not advised.

Anyone who would take your money to do couples counselling is a crook.
Or they are some religious organisation dedicated to saving marriages at any cost.

Are you sure you told the CARP woman everything? Because it is really strange that anyone with an ounce of experience about dv would suggest couples counselling. A counsellor who is a professional would not take you.

Go to individual counselling. Chase down the referral you have been given.

'I just think I need to ask him, for all our sakes. I really don't want to be judged for this, '
You have absolutely got to stop thinking anyone is going to judge you for any aspect of this situation or for any decision you make to end it. You don't need permission from anyone to end it

You slept all day because you crashed when the adrenaline went down. This is having a physical effect on you Nini.

I know your thread was called 'what to do when he hits you and he claims he hasn't?', and you feel you are going nuts with this sort of playing with your mind going on, but what Gingerchick said is absolutely true:
It doesnt matter how you behave, how you try to appease him or try not to provoke him. If you stay you are telling him that this is ok and it will get worse. It will continue and it will get worse. Do you really think he is going to admit how he behaves to a counsellor when he won't even admit it to himself

In other words, you will never, ever get even a tiny piece of a reason from him, an apology, an explanation, whatever it is you are looking for here. Please remember that he brought you jelly babies for the love of puppies, after everything that he did to you just in the previous 48 hours. I mean - what do you really think he is going to say to the suggestion of counselling?

What do you want from him, Nini?

Nini we are all just very worried for you and your daughter. I'm really glad you are still reading and talking to us.

gingerchick's post is really brilliant (welcome to MN btw!)

There are probably hundreds of women here on MN who would tell you the exact same thing: they wish they had left sooner. It was hard but they will never regret it. You have to do it for your children.

I don't think you consciously think your marriage is more important than your DD.
But by staying with him, this is in effect what you are doing.

It sounds like you want to do everything you possibly can to save your marriage, when really you should be doing everything you possibly can to protect your child -- and yourself.

It is probably the natural consequence of living with this man for so long and having to always put him first. It must be hard to shake that off and put you and your DD first. But you have to, my dear. It might be the hardest thing you ever have to do, but you have got to get the both of you away from him.

Your sister will help. The police will help. Women's Aid will help. You even have a very kind person on this thread who will help you.

Just reach out and let them help you. You are not alone here. It will be hard but you can do it.

also as regards to the itcouldhappentoyou post I have my children with me and have never been contacted by ss even though p assaulted me while they were both in the house. you will not lose your daughter if you act now but can you honestly say you can protect her from him, you really can't. You need to get real I'm sorry to sound like a bitch but I am trying to make you see this how it is and I do know what I'm talking about. Please listen nini

SS won't get involved if you protect your child. If you stay, despite everything he has done, then SS will have every right to believe you prioritise your relationship with your OH over your relationship with her and they could very well get involved. Good luck convincing them then that you can and are willing to protect her.

Sorry to be blunt, but by staying you are not only risking your safety, you're risking your child too, not just from the emotional damage your OH is going to do to her, but from SS too

Nini I can guess that your oldest have not been 'turned against you'. My guess is that they have grown up to be scared of him and they have normalised his abuse s in order to save themselves. This can change, they are still young.

If you leave and have some evidence of the abuse my guess is that they can get him removed and get non-molestation order in place. Go to the homeless shelter if you must - if only to prove to the services that you mean it, you are leaving and it has to happen. You will make it. Many thousands of women have done the same as you are doing now.

Sorry Nini, ignore that it was meant for another person on a different thread. It's late .

Hi Nini love

I read your original post about your shit of a partner waking you in the morning and was then linked to this one. I have read it and cried love. And those posters down in the West Country that offered you a safe haven. God love em. Marvellous people.

I cannot offer you advice love but there has been some excellent posters on here, too numerous to mention.

I suppose I just wanted to say I am thinking of you love. I know it ain't much but I have just got in from work and I thought I had to post a little message fo

For you! Stupid phone cut me off!!

Why do you even want to bother with couple counselling? It really doesn't sound as though you have any love left for him whatseover. Read your OP. How can you come back from feelings like that?

Of course he will agree to go to CC. He will do/say anything at the moment that stops him from looking like the bad guy, and anything that buys him some time while he tries to talk you round, or decides what his next move should be in terms of finding somewhere to live etc.

You do not owe him anything and no-one will judge you if you make no effort to save this relationship. I think you should start making enquiries as to what his rights are regarding emergency housing, just in case he says he can't leave as he has nowhere to go and no money to rent a place of his own.

Gather all the information you can on HB for one half of a splitting couple etc, then pack his bags for him, and present him with the info. Tell him you are in the process of seeking advice about injunctions etc in case he is violent or obstructive or refuses to leave. Tell him the previous incident is logged by the police and your GP (lie if need be) and if he refuses to leave without a fuss you will call the police immediately and they will remove him. Tell him it is all arranged.

I also don't think you should lie to your boss about how you hurt your knee. If you need a bit more time off, or if you are anticipating a rocky few weeks then call him/her, or email if it's easier, and explain, honestly and clearly that you are having a very tough time due to an incident of domestic violence and the subsequent breakdown of your marriage because of it, (no need to go into loads of detail) and that you would appreciate their support if you need to take some time off sick because of it. Get your GP to sign you off for a bit if necessary.

You have no reason to feel ashamed or lie to cover this up. At least not unless you know deep down that you intend to go back to how things were. If you are honest with your boss now, while you are still angry, then it will help you stay angry, and take steps to deal with it, instead of going back to how things were, because it's too complicated and exhausting to deal with.

Oh Nini = Iknow you don't want to hear it but you do sound as if you want this marriage to continue (why?) . I also think he will agree to counselling, so that he doesn't think of himself to be the wronged party.

But soon, when he's confident in his control over you again, he will start to hit you again. He doesn't think he's done anything wrong to you. He will hit you again.

He will hit your daughter again.

And again
and again...

and it soundslike you will continue to excuse him, trying to find that magic button that turns him into a nice guy. And meanwhile he is hitting your daughter.

Ooops wrong thread - should have been gogglemints!

So many abusive men, so many victim-children, so many hopeful women...

Sorry nini.

I don't see how couples counselling would help at all. He is violent so the problem is with him. You having counselling together won't change that.

Hello,

I don't want to scare monger but wanted to add that I am a foster parent. One of the little boys I foster was taken away from his parents by SS, because his mother would not protect him from his violent father. The father was also very violent towards his mother and his siblings too. Although his mother loved her children, she always found excuses to priorize her marriage rather than them. She made excuses for him, always believed if her behaviour changed then her husband would stop the violence towards her and their children. She was in denial, believing her own behaviour was at least partly responsible. By not removing the children (despite the help that was offered by SS and WA) she was deemed to be putting them at risk. The little boy that is now with us and his elder siblings were removed and put into foster care, a subsequent child was removed at birth. His mother now has no access to her children because at any contact visits she wanted to bring her violent husband along. She continues to live with him.

OP, it must be a terrifying situation you are in. I admire you so much for doing something positive and putting your child first. I know there is much more to do but like others the thought of couples counselling feels me with fear for you. Please continue to protect your child and make definite steps towards ending the relationship - not just for you and your child's sake but also because you will be seen to do the right thing in the eyes of the law/SS. They will support you, if you allow them to.

Good luck, I am thinking of you.

My mother was often hit and beaten by my father. It was part of an unpleasant marriage and she provoked him (so he said) by being an alcoholic. He too drank too much and we witnessed it all. Please, speaking for your daughter, please get out of there. I know she is little and you think she doesn't notice but it can have far-reaching consequences in terms of her self esteem and ability to form stable relationships of her own. Please, please don't accept this. My little sister who was under 2 when it was at its worst has suffered over time from what she saw and the home life we had.

there's really not much else that I can add to the great advice that is here!

I just wanted to encourage you to keep posting and keep listening. It must be difficult for you right now so big hugs and keep safe xx

Nini, I say this with love and the hope it will help you to see how bad your situation is, but you are prioritising your marriage, your H and your own need to be 'a good wife' over your DD.

Never mind what SS might think or do, what about how your DD feels as she gets older and grows up in a house full of abusive behaviour? And what about when that abuse is turned on her?

There is nothing to prevent you having counselling with your H while living separately, although I wouldn't advise it. If he can't admit to you that he hit you, why would he address any issues honestly with a counsellor?

A lot of us stay in bad marriages too long because we have this idea of what a good person does, and we think a good person stays in a marriage and works at it, explores every avenue, goes to counselling and really makes a go of it.

This is wrong: a good person recognises that people who love you, don't dominate and abuse you. And when it gets to the point that he's physically abusing you and he is already emotionally abusing your DD, you focus on being a good mother, not a good wife, and you leave.

Call WA and ask them how you get out, now.

nini I have been following this thread, I'm not sure what area North Glouc covers but I am in Cheltenham so if you ever need to get away I would be more than willing for you to have my sofa bed in the living room. I suffered a DV relationship for nearly 5 years so I have been in your situation. Pm me if you would like my mobile number. I cannot remember if you can drive but my living room is yours if you need it for a couple of nights

Honey I'm worried you haven't been on for a while I hope you are ok sweetheart and just to let you know we are all thinking about you and your lo and sending our love

I really hope you're still reading this, OP, even though it isn't what you want to hear...

Hi everyone,
Sorry, yes I am still here. :) Have had a mega busy day with NCT sale this morning then met with good friends for lunch. Exhausted and worn out. Luckily he was working today so have only seen him briefly this evening.

The casual attempts at starting up a conversation have begun on his part. When he got in - "Is she in bed?" (Well duh, I'm washing up, its past her bedtime and shes nowhere to be seen!). I didn't respond so he stormed out of the house tutting for about 10 mins. Then later this evening he came into the bedroom to get his clothes and asked how the sale went. I can't even bring myself to look at him right now, let alone talk.

Dreading tomorrow as he's home. Was going to go see my sister but the train times are so shocking it isnt worth it. Thinking of taking DD by bus to the next town as I have vouchers to spend there anyway.

I am listening to what's being said. Battling with my own thoughts but not taking any of this lightly. Very frightened at the thought of losing DD. :(

And moomoo, I may well PM you if I need help as you are very close locally. Thank you for the kind offer :)

Hi Nini, glad you posted and things quiet for you at the mo. Concerned from what I've quickly read from the last 24 hours' postings (sorry, only a little time to catch up) that posts seem to suggest you're considering staying with this man, in order to do some 'counselling'.

Having been through the farce of 3 sessions, many moons ago, it was a relief when the counsellor advised me to leave my XP. The 'counselling' itself was frustrating, going over old ground, with the XP refusing to accept the reality of his behaviour and me just crying mostly. The only good thing to come out of it was to hear an 'expert' say 'leave him'. That was pre-MN, so you've got a lot of experienced and concerned women (and men) advising you to 'leave him'.

Why the guilt over ending a marriage? What you're living is a marriage in legal terms only - not in an emotional or moral sense. Only some thoughts, and wishing you well.