So...what to do when he hits you and claims he hasn't? LONG

[NiniLegsInTheAir]

Related to:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1448343--to-expect-DH-not-to-deliberately-wake-me-up-early-in-the-mornings

And to a lesser extent on and off here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1451592-Red-flags-I-should-have-heeded-share-yours-for-womenkind

So, 5am this morning he starts screaming at the cat (who is on the windowsill (sometimes she scratches the woodwork but wasn't this morning). He started banging the bed violently with his hands so I told him to get a grip and he punched me on the arm. Which hurt.

He gets up at 6:15 and stomps around the house like he always does (this is where the first thread is relevant), and at half 6 goes into DD's room to get his workclothes - he refuses to sort them out the evening before. And like always, he disturbs her, she thinks he's going to pick her up so when he leaves she starts screaming and crying. So I told him off for waking her and he throws some clothes at me and shouts at me.

I've been stewing all day about the ridiculous morning situation (and how my eyes have been opened by being on this site the last few weeks). So when I got home I moved my clothes into the wardrobe in DD's room, put his clothes on our bed (to sort out after having put DD to bed). So I put her to bed and go downstairs. I put dinner on. Suddenly he walks through the door, a good half hour earlier than normal (and he claimed he was gonna be late tonight).

He comes in, breezy and talking to me normally, which gets my back up straight away. I was a bit frosty so he goes straight upstairs (WHY OH WHY did I not tell him about the clothing arrangement then?! I'm such a fucking idiot). Next thing I know is I hear DD crying.

So I go upstairs. He's playing with her in her cot. She's supposed to be settling to sleep (she's 14 months). He knows that. I asked him "What are you doing?" He says "I'm playing with her." I say "She's supposed to be sleeping." Then I go back downstairs to finish putting dinner on.

Within a few mins I hear her screaming the place down as he's obviously left her now. Not impressed particularly with that. Then there's a great crash from our bedroom. He comes flying downstairs shouting at me "There's mud everywhere now!" I said "What? Why is there mud upstairs?" (a bit confused). He then starts yelling about me moving the clothes and how because of me the clothing rail has broken (no shit Sherlock, its been broken for most of the 3 YEARS I've been using it). So I said to him "You're being too noisy for DD. Why is she crying?" He shouts even louder that he "doesn't fucking know", slams the cupboard door by my foot that he's just taken the dustpan out of and almost knocks me into the boiling saucepan I've got in front of me on the hob.

So I lost it a bit and squared up to him. Can't remember quite what I said - bit of a red mist - something along the lines of being sick to death of him etc etc. So he shoulders me and I went back at him. Then he grabbed me and threw me into the dining room floor, knocking my back and my right knee. And he's screaming at me for "scratching his neck" and how I should "never fight him when he's bigger and stronger than me". I started crying at this point (tears of angry but also my knee was agony) got back up and just let rip with what I thought of him. How much I hate him. How I'm sick to death of him for a whole host of reasons and I won't tolerate being hit by him again. He claims he never hit me. I was totally shocked that he DARED tell me he didn't punch me in the arm this morning. According to him it never happened, please tell me I'm NOT going crazy!

I then let rip, told him exactly what I think of him, what a tosser he is, how worthless he makes me feel, how much I hate him, that it's all over. I told him to stop gaslighting me (ahh how sweet it was to see the confused look on his face when he didn't understand the term ). I told him not to come home tomorrow night as I need some space - "I'm not going anywhere" he said. I told him the door would be locked if he came home (not smart I know). I eventually had to back down and went to the kitchen, finished dinner and ate it alone while he swept up the mud upstairs. Our poor cat was so spset, she kept meowing and rubbing around my legs. I was slumped against the sink and she stood on her back legs and took my hand with both her front paws, it was amazing .

He's now in the bath on the phone and I'm in the bedroom. My right knee is in agony, it's red and feels swollen already (I have bad knees anyway, any knock to them causes this kind of pain). DD is still awake, I went in to her afterwards and cuddled her, she was happily chatting away to me. I can't believe we dragged this innocent little soul into such a shitty life, what kind of mother am I. It's making me weep . The cat is curled up closely next to me.

Turns out the 'mud' was from my little giant sunflower I've been growing for DD that was on the mantelpiece. He swept up the dirt on his stuff but has left any that fell on anything of mine. Just shows what he thinks of me. I'm worthless to him.

I don't know what to do know. My head is in tatters, I can't think straight, I've just written this as it's come to me and it happened over an hour ago. I dont have anywhere to go or anyone to talk to. I will probably sleep in with DD tonight to make sure he doesn't steal her away or something in the morning. Please help!

So he's back living in the house? Why on earth have you let him back?

Just as a matter of interest, how do people think that a woman can stop an angry violent man from coming back to his own house? Usually women have to run away from men like this. It's not a matter of telling them no. If they listened to no, they wouldn't be violent in the first place.

hi op
from a police perspective:

in my force area, if an incident gets reported that is domestic violence we have to take positive action, so even if the victim does not want to press charges we are still honour and duty bound to investigate it.
Incidents like this get reported every single day. As a police officer it is quite easy to get "hardened" to DV, and see the same patterns so often. Its not an excuse but i am guessing that the police officers you saw knew you would be taking him back.
you can tell who is going to do that when you are taking the report, and it depends on what you said and how it happened. If you have already starting making excuses for him, then they will sense that. Also, despite having to investigate, if the victim is unwilling to go to court then the hands of the police are tied somewhat. Did they ask you if you wanted to make a complaint and go to court? If you said "no", then all the police help in the world wont make any difference.
I am guessing that the police will have asked you some questions and will pass this info to the DV unit for a follow up call at some point.
At the end of the day, you have to want to change this and you have to want to find a way to do it.
I find the fact that he strangled you very significant and it is one of the questions we have to ask every DV victim when we attend as it is a risk indicator.
Phone WA today OP and start to plan how you will end this. Only you can change this, and only if you want to.
good luck

Nini, your cat deserves protection but you don't? And your DD doesn't?

You have to take this seriously and deal with it, before he hurts your DD.

Every women whose abusive partner eventually turns on their kids will always say, "I never thought he'd hurt the kids."

He is already displaying abusive behaviour towards her by waking her up because he wants to play or he wants his clothes. That's an aggressive way to behave towards your DD. He will escalate to physically abusing her, but he will grind her down first like he's ground you down.

Protect your DD. And to do that, you have to protect yourself.

Call WA, ask for help. Then call the police back and say you want to press charges. Listen to all the women who've been where you are now. You have to stop kidding yourself that you know what will happen next and it's somehow manageable. It's not.

You are in danger.

Your DD is in danger. Take her out of harm's way. Please.

Nini he STRANGLED you...

think of your daughter in 20 years time living with a man who did this to her....would you think it was acceptable, forgiveable, just a bad day????

It's not acceptable, not forgiveable and not just a bad day for you either...please, please keep yourself and your DD safe.

Keep reading keep post ing and if you can'r phone Women's aid at least look at their website...it will be a huge eye opener.

Please do take this opportunity that he is not there to either leave the house, or change locks (and do lock the front door!).

He has already shown to be violent, which means that he is very likely to be violent again.
Does he know you rang the police?

And:
If he comes home tonight I will tell him to go away again for a few days so I can straighten my head out, and I will also tell him its over.
Have you told him to leave for a few days?
You have told him it's over, but you still have him in the house and he took you jelly babies and is acting as he usually does when you have a fight.
He thinks he can win you back and that this is a "normal" fight. That is why he is not being violent now.

You have told him (and yourself) that it's over. You should act accordingly. Having him in the house gives him the impression that it's not over but it's also dangerous for you once you realise it's serious or if he manages to talk you around. You don't want either. :(

Nini -- read Vicar's post, every last word, and take it in.

vicar - what do you as a pc make of this '3 strikes and you're out' business? It sounds extremely unsatisfactory as far as I can make out - it implies that a woman's complaint isn't worth anything until it's been repeated 3 times. I can't believe this is police policy.

Just typed a big post to you nini and it all disappeared, grrrrrr.

In a nutshell, I was in a similar situation as you with an ex and found that I was so scared of him and the gut wrenching fear of what any confrontation with him would bring, I spent years making excuses for him and minimising his crap.

I found the courage to end the relationship when a couple of people in RL offered me their concrete help (offering a bolt hole at first and later being physically present while i told him it was over and moved my stuff out)

You're already showing a lot more courage than I ever did back then and at the risk of sounding like a stalker - I'd be more than happy to be a RL resource for you.

Just pm me if that's of any help/interest to you.

Keep strong and pls try very hard not to reason this away/trivialising it in your mind and heart - he really is an abusive and dangerous person.

How does she get him out of the house.

Nini says he came home after she'd gone to bed. It doesn't sound like she invited or welcomed him back.

Injunction
'You could try to gain some protection from your abuser by applying for a civil injunction or protection order. An injunction is a court order that requires someone to do or not to do something. There are two main types of injunctions available under Part IV of the Family Law Act 1996:

A non-molestation order
An occupation order

A non-molestation order is aimed at preventing your partner or ex-partner from using or threatening violence against you or your child, or intimidating, harassing or pestering you, in order to ensure the health, safety and well-being of yourself and your children.

An occupation order regulates who can live in the family home, and can also restrict your abuser from entering the surrounding area. If you do not feel safe continuing to live with your partner, or if you have left home because of violence, but want to return and exclude your abuser, you may want to apply for an occupation order.

Under new legislation, a breach of a non-molestation order is now a criminal offence; however, you should still be able to take your abuser back to the civil court for breaking the order, if you prefer this. If you already have an injunction, you may have a power of arrest attached, and you can also have powers of arrest attached to an occupation order. These powers come into effect if your abuser breaks the order.'

I'm as good as useless with this bit Nyac. Only ever rented and was able to leave and not have to worry about being the one to leave the marital home etc.

This is where places like WA come in with useful practical info I think.

And friends who are willing and able to stand in front of a twat like this and provide some consequences to his constant returning to the shared home and doing more emotional damage.

Waffling here I know....

Careful here ......no police. Call Women's Aid. Get out quick.

If you call police, social workers get involved and if they don't think you can keep DH away from DD you have had it. Believe me. You can lose your DD because you DH is violent. See discussion forum - check out

www.frg.org.uk/ParentsForum/ and under heading getting your voice heard check out postings under 'honestly can't see the light' she has lost her child her violent DH is in prison - her phone records show she called him and she can't have DS back.

Be very careful but get out.

The non molestation order is the problem you will find from the situation of poor mother on FRG site - that is what triggered the whole awful situation.

Nini -- do not foreclose any options or stop yourself from reaching out to all those who can help you, out of fear of things spiralling out of your control. Police (and social services) will work with you to get your H away from you.

Social services are not the big monster under the bed here. The monster you need to be afraid of attacked you violently, did a pub quiz last night with his mates and brought you a bag of jelly babies.

With respect, Itcouldhappen, please stop spreading scaremongering information around which could be incredibly dangerous to OP and other posters, potential lurkers. You do not know what factors affected the OP on the other forum, the situation is potentially very different.

The police and social services will not remove children unless there is significant risk to their health, safety or wellbeing.

When a mother is taking steps such as leaving a relationship to ensure her children are protected, social services will play no role other than to direct and help her towards support services.

If she finds that she is unable to leave and so continues to expose the children to an abusive environment then it could become a child protection issue, but not when she is making plans and steps towards leaving, for good.

Sorry for lack of responding today, I spent most of the day asleep.

A lady from CARP rang me today, she's had details from the police and also from my phone call to them. We had a long chat about things, she was really nice. She told me what help was available and gave me details of a counselling service - she thinks I would benefit even if I go alone.

At the risk of being flamed, I discussed with her the possibility of going to couples counselling. I keep thinking that if I don't at least suggest it, I'll always think "What if...". If I ask him and he says no, then at least I know he doesn't want to make a go of things and get out (the CARP lady talked me through making a safety plan and wants me to call her immediately once I've asked him if he wants to try counselling, because if he says no she will put a safety plan in action).

I just think I need to ask him, for all our sakes. I really don't want to be judged for this, I've read every post carefully. I'm struggling enough as it is.

I'm very upset and unsettled by itcouldhappens post/link. I don't think its appropriate :(

There's no harm in asking Nini, but consider what might happen if he says 'yes'. I've just tried that - it's how I came up with my name!

The police are not the bad guys here. Social services are not the the bad guys. what idiocy would advocate staying with a violent DH, or shutting out the help of the police or social services because some scare mongering idiot who probably hasnt a clue of the facts is shooting their mouth off? the post from itcouldhappen is irresponsible scaremongering and trust me when i tell you that the police do not advocate whipping kids away - jesus christ - we attend hundreds and hundreds of domestics - where do you think we and social services put all these children?

if this has happened to someone, itcouldhappen it will be with good reason - or would you prefer another Baby P? maybe you would. maybe that would be preferable.

i have not heard of a 3 strikes policy. My force certainly does not have this policy. For us with any DV situation it is positive action. fruitless as that often is if the woman who reports then refuses to cooperate, at least its on file. often the CPS will not run a case without the victims cooperation. Alot of DV incidents attended by police turn into one huge time wasting exercise and that is why so many officers get hardened to it.

for police, it is better to be safe than sorry, and if we believe a child is at risk, then we submit a report to SS - i have to say that the majority of DV cases i attend do not result in this, because the majority of DV cases i attend do not automatically result in a SS referral. We do have to do some major arse covering, and put a report in to cover us if it all goes tits up at a later date, but only if a child was deemed to be in need of a referral would it happen. It does not happen in every case of DV.

more often, i will submit a report to our DV unit and nothing more will happen. We are not the relationship police. We cannot make choices for people or tell them how to live.

but if a child is truly at risk, and i believed that, then i would have no hesitation in putting a report into SS, or if i believed a child to be in immediate danger then we have the power to take out a police protection order and remove the child there and then - it does not happen often but that is exactly how it should be, or would you prefer the alternative itcouldhappen?

horsetowater if it doesn't work, then I need to be strong enough to say its not helping and end it. But I'd like to try. And you're right, people can only be helped if they want it :D

vicar the '3 strikes' policy only meant that after 3 occasions of involving the police, they inform SS automatically, not that they take your children away. Which makes sense to me. :)

Couples counselling with a violent, controlling and abusive man is about the worst idea in the world.

It will just give him another lever of control over you.

I suspect the 'what if' you are thinking of is something like: what if I could have done something to change him and make everything great? why did I throw away my marriage when maybe I could have saved it?

First off, let's go back to your original posts. Here is a man who wakes up you AND your DD for no reason other than his own selfish and stupid reasons, no matter how often you tell him not to, escalating to the point where he hits you when you complain.

Do you honestly think there is some magic argument, some trick to learn in counseling, that would turn him into the kind of person who doesn't do that?

I'm really sorry, but there isn't.

Second, you are not the one ending this marriage he is. He has treated you so badly, he is an ongoing risk to you and your DD. You are doing the RIGHT thing by ending it in fact, it is really the only moral choice you have considering that you have a responsibility to protect your child from abuse.

Finally, I think you need to try to articulate why you want to stay with this man. Counselling is not going to fix him. It is not going to make him a decent man. And it could in fact make things worse, because it will keep you in a situation where you are in danger and give him new means of controlling you.

You should go to counseling -- on your own. You should end this relationship. It would be great if he would go to counseling on his own so that he can become a better co-parent. Let the future work itself out.

But do not kid yourself that couples counseling is a good idea here.

if you do go to couples counselling you must make it clear that he is violent - but alot of counsellors will not entertain counselling couples where one is abusive to the other.

No decent counsellor in the world would agree to this.

Abusers are well known for their ability to manipulate things to their advantage and counselling can be a great tool for them to use to "prove" that the person they are abusing is in the wrong, needs to change and deserves everything that is happening to them.

All that will happen if you go to counselling is that he will twist and turn everything so you are in a worse position that you are now, because you will believe that he is right, you are wrong and you will destroy not only your life but your dd's faith in you to protect her.

Read on here what children of women like you have to say about their mothers. They say that they should have left, that they should have protected their children, that they cant understand how the man who beat their mother cvould mean more to her than her own children.

Do you want your DC to be saying that about you?

But I don't think he means more to me than DD does :( Is that how I come across? Am I really not doing enough then? Because if the answer to that question is yes then maybe SS really would consider taking her away from me. :(

I would like to call the counsellors first and ask them if they take couples where one is abusive.

bohemian words of wisdom as always. I think you know me better than I do myself :(

Sweetheart I found this thread thru search engine and joined to talk to you, I am a survivor of dv and I have two children I finally managed to break free from my partner when I found out I was pregnant with dd2 definitely not planned. I was with him for 11 years and I'll be honest it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life but I have never regretted it and me and my girls are so much happier now. You need to think about your daughter please don't think that she has not been affected my oldest goes to the door anytime a voice is raised she is 5 now and was 18 months when my partner went she knew that I would pick her up and leave if he started. It doesnt matter how you behave how you try to appease him or try not to provoke him. If you stay you are telling him that this is ok and it will get worse. It will continue and it will get worse Do you really think he is going to admit how he behaves to a counsellor when he won't even admit it to himself. I know it seems like the easier option to stay trust me I know but it isn't. You need to get out get in the car with your daughter and drive fuck your job fuck your daughters nursery go to your sisters or your good friend but you need to get out! Please please listen to me I am not being nasty I have been where you are now and I didn't and believe me it got worse and worse I am lucky to be alive. I am not saying this to frighten you but because it is reality please please get out. I am here for you if you want to talk sorry for the essay but your story really touched my heart and I had to reach out to you