Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships number *8*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change

I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

yaya well he's using all the usual things, fortunately you have already seen him for what he is and have given him notice. Hope you can get out soon. You will find yourself remarkably sane and unruffled when he is not around (well it might take a little bit of time but the relief is enormous).

Keep ranting away here if it helps as we will all recognise how you feel ......... T shirts are being worn for the EA party.

PS make sure you are safe. this can be a dodgy time as he feels his hold slipping......call 999 sooner rather than later if you feel threatened

hi ibuyjaffacakes! Love the new name, I have a feeling I know who u r but not 100% . Reassuring to hear that it should get easier to detach from him. I suppose part of showing him he can't control me anymore is by not taking anything he says seriously and appearing so much stronger. I guess it will have to go back to solicitors if he wants to mess about with both my right and my daughters right to bf (its in the childrens act!) as you are right I will not let him win on that one. He's already messed us about enough. Its just the cost of getting solicitors to sort it, my bill is already through the roof!
Xx

p.s. we have been meeting in a public place for contact so I think this will continue once I'm in the refuge, just in the new area.

sunrise do make sure you continue to meet in public. I made the mistake of being alone and am really suffering now!

How are you feeling about going to the refuge? Make sure you keep posting once you get there.

yaya welcome. Just wrote a post but it got lost. I echo what onthehill says to make sure you are safe.

I've read your thread and of course you shouldn't lend him your car. Making the children available is just that. You are not there to serve him and sort his problems/entire needs out any more. He has to sort things out himself. He doesn't like that. The lying to his family about you, and using ridiculously twisted logic to make things your fault, seems to be so usual of abusive men. It helps to know there are other women going through similar to you, and get support here. (even though of course it's also sad to know so many of us going through similar abuse.)

Sun, it took me a long time to learn to detach, and still don't sometimes, but all the support on here helps and I wish I had been on mumsnet at the seperating stage and before that as well.

You are doing really well. Like you say, it's in the children act he can't stop your dc right to breastfeed. Knowledge is power!

Sunrise, yes I agree cost of solicitors a lot, just the knowledge you have that children act says about breastfeeding and a solicitor would recognise it, or just knowing waht sol would say in other situations helps, when he says things, you can, as you say, not take it seriously and appear strong. Which you have done. Hope that makes sense.

Feeling really down now. I can't see a way out. He's not nasty enough to end the relationship for but I just can't bear for him to touch me any more. The kids can hug me any time but I just can't bring myself to give him any love at all. I'm sleeping with dcs now, have been for a while but let them think it's because Daddy snores - true, he's also a pig and not pleasant to share a bed with.

But it hasn't made him buck up - he kind of tries, but it doesn't work.

I've been reading a thread elsewhere about whether having sex while someone's asleep is rape. That used to happen to me A LOT in the early days. We'd go out, both have a bit too much to drink. I would wake up to find I'm having sex with him. I was also on meds at the time that made me extra drowsy with alcohol. I remember several occasions where I would just feel incredibly sad and tearful afterwards. It was bad sex in those days but I didn't know any better as we met when I was fairly inexperienced.

But the worst thing is when he wants to hug, and I just have to turn away - I really can't bear him to touch me at all. For the past 15 years or so sex was much much better (probably something to do with the internet). We've been together for 25.

But I know I haven't gone off sex, and I know I haven't gone off affection generally as I show the kids lots of physical affection. I'm

But it's so hard to turn round to someone after 25 years and say 'I've decided I don't like you any more'.

I still feel so inadequate in terms of being able to look after myself and the dds. It's getting to the point now where I don't even like him. I still love him but I'm not sure I like him any more. But I'm so fed up because there's just so much to do all the time, I can't deal with a complete life overhaul at the moment.

Hello horse have a [hug]. Really, there is no threshold of nastiness for ending a relationship. If you are unhappy, that is enough. I know you are thinking of DC but twill be better if you are happy, for you and for them.

We all felt inadequate (I think I can say that), it is because our self-esteem gets eroded in these situations. But everyone who manages to get out (or nearly everyone) reports that they cope fine, one step at a time, any mistakes they make are their mistakes, and can be dealt with.

You don't have to do anything, however why not check out the financials, it gives you some specific parameters to think about.

I've checked the financials but essentially it's about housing. Where we live in London we would have to downsize seriously. This would involve a lot of upheaval as we would have to clear so much stuff out. Perhaps I should do a 'stay or go' inventory. I think the stuff is partly what's keeping me from moving - sounds ridiculous, but short of chucking it all on a skip it would mean months of sifting through.

DP doen't mean to be a twat, and I've been so thick-skinned over the years he doesn't know any better. If I had left before he may have learned something from it. Also, as he's got older he has reverted to his younger self, which is lovely for him, but it's the batchelor lifestyle again, which I conveniently fitted into before. He's never been a team player and never will be.

I think last time I was on here we had decided to sell the house. I think he's still keen - he sees what's coming I think and wants to get his fair share. The solicitor I saw said I shouldn't move out - just when I was prepared to give it all up and pack up the dds and go.

One of the problems I have is visualising - seeing how the future might be, I know that would help. I'm fed up with moaning on MN (it's been years) and I haven't actually done anything constructive. Of course I have gained a lot of insight and strength from everyone's advice and I'm eternally grateful for that, but I haven't put anything into practice yet. I have moved out of the bedroom so that's a start, but he's astoundingly oblivious to this (was furious at first as it damaged his ego) but really not doing anything to encourage me back in there!

It really is the end, I can feel it, but anyone who has been in the same relationship for a decade will know how hard it is to extricate yourself from the memories, friends, conversations, experiences and stuff that you collect together.

horse It is hard but once you have really decided to go you sometimes have to put your emotions to one side and "just do it". The thing is that only you can decide to "make yourself drink", only you can value yourself above this and reach out to embrace a new life. No-one else can. Inertia and the status quo are powerful but you are worth a better life...so either you need to make the one you have better (but I'm guessing he's not willing) or go out and find yourself a new one, for your DDs if nothing else.

we're all here to hold your hand, whatever you decide.

Maybe just clear out one cupboard and see how you feel....if it's a release then it will give you energy to do something else, if it's just drudge then maybe the time is not right for you.

horse sorry you are feeling stuck, I have no words of wisdom but the others have told you some good things to do/think about.

I've really got to get on and have some sort of plan. Today I have been told that I will "do as I'm told" and wash his clothes for his business trip this week. Apparently I should have used my brain and stop being a prick and washed them already since they were on the bedroom floor and I do fuck all else (except look after 7 mo dd). And now I'm the unreasonable one for being annoyed at him saying that!!

Hi sunrise
Just wanted to say very good luck for the move to the refuge tomorrow. We're thinking of you xx

Morning sunrise, thinking of you today x

Good luck sunrise

Just checking in after a lovely relaxed weekend packed with sports and cake. Think I will namechange later to something cake-related as it is featuring strongly in life with the Very Nice Man!

It is always a reality check coming back here and hearing from those of you still stuck with a FWH or FWP. Getting away is just like ripping off a plaster. You dread it, the pain seems worse than staying put and accepting the crap, but if you can be brave and JUST DO IT things start to get better immediately. Not being ground down by an entitled git or having to stifle constant irritation and put up with unwanted sex is wonderful, even if you have to leave a comfortable home to live somewhere cheaper.

horse when I was at your stage I made lists, planned finances and tried to save a little on the quiet, and tried to detach and observe as much as possible.
When it came the end was sudden and dramatic, but I was ready.

veeee you do realise you are just a malfunctioning domestic appliance don't you? He wouldn't actually miss YOU just your useful functions.

Good luck sunrise post soon to say you are ok!

and yaya welcome to the support board! We can talk you through dealing with your own special FW. You will be fine and SO much happier and so will your DC once you get the hang of it!

littlehouse I completely agree. There is nothing that I miss, nothing that is any harder (except paying bills, but at least I'm in control!). And the children now have my full concentration and devotion.

He says that his life is now complete shit. But mine is a new, happy thing. The weeks before I left were the darkest of all. The thought of doing it is worse than doing it.

Hi big I meant to comment on your post about introducing the DC to your Nice Boy. I'm sure you are feeling relieved it went well, and I'm glad for you.

It is interesting isn't it how although they didn't recognise the value of what we contributed the FWH miss it and find life difficult. Which is of course our fault for leaving them... not theirs for driving us away or failing to take any responsibility for anything.

veeees STBX will be just like that when she withdraws her floor-to-drawer laundry service!

I agree too - little and bighouse, My bill paying is actually easier now. I made plans to leave. Just sort of looked at him (detached from him, yes,) and eventually despised him. I put things off because of, not knowing quite what was wrong, not enough paid work, being vulnerable when pregnant, too exhausted to take action, thought the children needed a stable home, fearful of stigma of being a single parent, nowhere to go to live etc. Plan sabotaged by his twisted way with words so stayed yet another year etc.

But when I finally did it, oh what a fantastic feeling that first night. Absolutely elated. And realised I could have done it before. If I had been able to talk to mumsnet and if people in real life had listened to me and told me of help available before, maybe I wouldn't have stayed so long. On here we have support of kind and wise women.

And since then, not easy, but day to life for me and the children so much easier, and peaceful. More energy for children and paid work when I can get it, from not being woken at night for sex, more energy because not having to keep up with his impossible demands etc etc.

You need to plan and have all the support you can get, and stay safe, but actually leaving much easier than it looked when considering leaving and how to overcome the obsticles. Easier than putting up with the abuse every single day, and the effects on the dcs.

Plus, I can plan meals based on as little pot washing as possible!

yes veeeeee, you will have less chores to do.

People said to me that I would find it hard to cope with all the dcs. I said no it's easier. Some of them understood.

And I agree little, he said I did practically nothing and made him miserable, but then when we'd gone he found his life was so hard. He had not enough money. (this is before he paid maintenance, only himself to pay for, but still my fault). He missed dcs, even though he never got up until they left the house for school and when not working in the part time job he got " so he could spend more time with the kids", spent most of his time on the computer, went out often when they were home from school, didn't do bedtimes etc. He found himself a replacement domestic appliance pretty quick. (who was much better at everything than me, in fact, perfect, (for a short while), obviously).

I agree, as soon as you can, leave. It's like getting rid of a big horrible moaning weight that you've been struggling under.

Hideous meeting with DH today, I was strong for ages while he was agressive and angry but eventually just broke down in tears. Then he seems happier! He tells me I'm a bad mother, all his friends think I'm terrible, I'm unstable, angry, shout at him all the time. Then he tells me I've destroyed his life by leaving. WTAF?

He makes me feel crazy. Utterly fucking crazy.

Oh Big I am sorry that happened. Do you have to meet him? Can you avoid it and do it through a solicitor or by email?
I think the only way to survive is to repeat something over and over to yourself like "I could just leave now" or "I don't have to put up with this any longer". That works for me.

He does it because he wants to feel he still has power over you. When you cried he WAS happy because it meant you still cared what he said.
You are not a bad mother! His friends don't know the first thing about it all, just what he tells them and who cares anyway?
If you are unstable or angry or shout at him it is because he is an unkind arse. And obviously if you were so terrible he wouldn't want you to stay.
This man is a crazy maker. You know that. It is why you left!

Have a and be glad you are rid of him!

Thanks little. The thing is, I don't shout or argue or anything. I pretty much just cower. He doesn't want to deal with emails, he just wants to deal face to face at monthly meetings, with agendas, and he's writing up minutes afterwards.

Now when I type it down, I realise that it doesn't look normal. I need to calm down ...

At one point, when I was crying, he said "Please stop bullying me!" I actually laughed slightly through the tears.

I will be so glad once we are divorced and all the paperwork etc. is done and dusted.

Thanks for kind words and cup of tea. I was supposed to be at a meeting but he left me sobbing so I've had to drive up to a local beauty spot and I'm sitting here catching up with work.

Sorry you had to deal with that today big. I hope you're feeling a little better now. I am also unstable so you're in good company

Thanks veee. :) There was something that someone said before, up-thread, about all of us being similar types of women that these men were attracted to: vibrant, sociable, confident etc. - and I think that is how other people would describe me. We are really NOT unhinged/unstable etc. because otherwise, other people would surely NOTICE and we wouldn't be so well thought of... SURELY?! x

Well I have just stopped meeting FWH for talks because I don't have to. If he really wants to know something he has to email it to me so I can consider it. I refuse to agree anything face to face because he twists and manipulates me till I would agree black was white.
(trouble is he is getting meaner so he cancels insurance policies without telling me if I don't check up on him. I need to stop trusting him to be decent!)

You know when you read back what you wrote that he is a nasty piece of work and only someone conditioned for years by him would give him the time of day. Anybody else would just laugh and tell him to take a flying leap!

Enjoy the peace and quiet and I hope you feel better soon.