Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships number *8*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change

I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Fingers I think it is the next stage of my life makeover to look at how the DC have been affected by living on Manipulo, now I am out and sorted and - yes - happy!
To survive one has to be hypersensitive to mood and aware of all the subtle undercurrents. But then one never relaxes totally and is quick to see insult when none is intended. My DC (17, 18 and 21) all strive hard, achieve great things but are never quite satisfied (like their DF) and I look at them and worry. They exercise like mad, eat only healthy food, save money and obey the law. I wish they were just a bit more chilled and less good IYSWIM. I am seen as having had some sort of midlife crisis turning my back on wealth and success despite my happy professional career (ONLY three days a week grumbles FWH).
I can talk to them and we agreed to flag up any emotional blackmail or unkindnesses as we recognise they are bad behaviour.
Any suggestions?

Hi everyone

I keep dropping off the threads :(

I'm really getting annoyed with myself because when I'm on my own I get really upset with all the things FWH does/says/doesn't do but when I talk to him or anyone else about it I start laughing and make a joke out of it. Why do I do this?

Also a question for those who have left - how did you do it? Did you explain your reasons, give him a chance to respond and change? I know that he'll argue with my reasons and tell me they are wrong so is there any point? Did you just one day leave? Did you have housing sorted out or did you go and stay with family? How do you stop feeling so guilty about doing it so that you can actually leave?

Hi veeeee

Minimising and denial is one way of coping with pain. Your "making a joke" is an example of this. Would it be really hard to show when you are hurt?

I took ages to address my unhappiness, told DH, went to individual counselling for a year, went together for 8 months, and when his behaviour just got worse and worse I eventually just moved out while he was in London for the day. I rented a tiny house for six months and slept on the floor.
I felt guilty for ages. Everything was my fault!

Not now! xxxxxx

Be strong and make a plan. Start working it all out. Where would you like to live? can you afford it? Have you got a deposit? Can you borrow one? Will you take furniture or get recycled/IKEA stuff etc etc
Making it a reality in your mind is scary but then it just happens!

WRT to leaving.

There is no reason that they would accept, they would never understand, they don't fundamentally care one JOT about your misery. YOU leaving is a GROSS inconvenience and you are being silly, selfish, cruel, bad, evil, manipulative and BINGO even ABUSIVE yourself to even think of going.

So tbh, it doesn't matter. Really, it's not that big a deal when it comes down to it.

You are unhappy. HE makes you unhappy. You have asked/begged/cajoled him to NOT make you unhappy (Note that you are not even asking for him to make you happy, only not being mean...) but he won't.

SO you have a right to leave, it's best that you do.

it is THAT simple.

If need be use the "I have a right to leave, it's best for everyone that I do" as a broken record if he challenges you. Refuse to discuss it, there is no point, really. He only wants to tie you up in knots to keep you bound to him.

Being OUT is the best thing ever. You will NEVER regret it, not for a second. If you have to sleep on a floor it's still better. TRUST ME.

What Littlehouse and Hissy said - and, Vee, I still need telling all that, too.

Ah. Important point here for all those thinking of getting out. For those present and those lurking.

Some of you may know my back story, some may not. You see my turmoil here sometimes, the pain/conflict of the last few days and you may be tempted to reconsider getting out.

I say in the strongest voice I can muster. I may be sad, I may have realised that my whole family is a ffing JOKE and that they PUT ME HERE in this hell, but I wouldn't be back in that abusive relationship OR ANY OTHER for anything on god's earth.

I recently ended a relationship with a guy that was apparently crazy about me, buying me presents, paying for the babysitter when we went out, found me sexy, irresistible etc etc etc. I ended it because he misunderstood a text I had sent, found it cruel and insensitive. Now I know what HE thought it meant I do understand that he would have been very hurt had i been the utter bitch it would take to actually mean it The fact that he spent 3 days not taking my calls, stonewalling me, and then, when he realised that I had not sent what he thought I had, he didn't back down, he didn't apologise. The idea that for 3 days he believed I was that much of a cow to be that mean really upset me. Of course I'm not that nasty. ANYONE who knows me would know that. he's had long enough to know me to know this.

Not even now, that I ended it, specifically TELLING him that it was this that caused me to pull back, not even then did he apologise for his unreasonable judgement and punishment of me.

This shows that my feelings are NOT important to him. They should be. HIS feelings were important to ME.... Of that he has tons of proof. Proof he chose to ignore and put to one side so that he could punish me for three days.

I deserve someone who DOES really care. I need to show myself that I care about ME, and I do.

So please don't be put off by me talking about the fall out of an abusive relationship, yes it hurts at the time, but I am dealing with it all and when I get the other side of it I AM stronger, I am happier and I am insuring myself against a repeat relationship.

WRT the guilt. Please read/re-read WHY DOES HE DO THAT by lundy bancroft.

Or Power and control - why charming men make dangerous lovers.

They'll set you straight!

Thankyou. I'm on maternity leave at the moment but since finding this thread a few months ago I feel like my eyes have been opened and I can't believe all of the shit I've put up with. I hate having to carry on pretending it's ok just for an easy life and to protect dd.

I've had enough but I just need to find the courage to get out and for him to take it seriously.

Littlehouse, I don't have any suggestions. I always thought that good, kind behaviour was default and natural. I still believe that, but something went wrong with these crappy unfortunate human beings.
Your kids sound great. Mine are lovely. I still trust them to distinguish good behaviour from bad.
I suppose it is openness that is the key. Openness to talk about feelings and openness to accepting other people's feelings. If that is there, as it isn't, wasn't and will never be with FWHS, the rest follows.
You are doing good :)

Actually fingers I think you have given good advice - it WILL all come out in the wash. I need to relax too and trust my lovely DC to see the change in me and understand why. Take a chill pill LH!

FWH loves to talk about feelings, and about how important kindness is. But strangely his version of kindness doesn't actually make the recipient feel better, just indebted, as it comes with strings. And those feelings are all his! But it takes a long time and a lot of detachment to work it all out, when he is talking the talk! He is a master of the Sensitive/Victim role. I have him taped now, and he doesn't seem to upset me as much now.

Is it too early for beer and nachos? I feel like a treat!

hissy that Planet Normal was wonderful, it gave me goosebumps, especially the part about how perceptive we are. So true, thank you.

A quote from 'Should I Stay or Should I Go'
Such a small event. So emblematic of our whole lives. Notice that the poor woman has given up even the idea of a happy partner. She is reduced to not 'pissing him off' :(
'I remember the minute I realized that I'd really lost part of myself. I was at the gas station by myself. I wasn't sure if I should go in to pay for the gas ahead of time, or pay at the pump. I realized that I was hesitating because I was so used to hanging back and trying to figure out which move would be the thing that would not piss off my partner.'
On a happier note - I know I have posted this before, but I make no apologies for playing this again:

"'I remember the minute I realized that I'd really lost part of myself. I was at the gas station by myself. I wasn't sure if I should go in to pay for the gas ahead of time, or pay at the pump. I realized that I was hesitating because I was so used to hanging back and trying to figure out which move would be the thing that would not piss off my partner.'"

Eeesh. The number of times I've done similar things, and then he'll just have a go at me for being indecisive. I've lost all my confidence around him (though it's not just him, it's the same at work around strong characters). I've spent my life not wanting to piss people off and just doing what they want.

Bloody hell that resonates here too.

This is why I came back home with Agoraphobia. Scared to go outside for fear of being 'found out'. Terrifying. It took some tough talking from my inner voice to get me through that. The fear was immense.

I'm not like that anymore. I don't feel scared outside, I can look a man in they eye, I can even talk to them too.

When we are out, and on Planet Normal, we do regain the confidence we had, we DO blend in and we can recover. Takes time, takes work, but it's inevitable as long as we face what we have been through.

So I make a wrong decision sometimes now? Big deal, I sort the consequences.

Before, I would dither, gather more info, ask ex, who would say Don't Know, and end up doing nothing...

The biggy was realising what I actually knew, I did not need his permission to get a divorce!

Out of interest....Has anyone done the Myers Briggs personality type test? Not that I agree with classifying people based on 4 letters, but I imagine there are particular traits in common. I am an and ENFJ.

Ny whole life has also been spent trying not to piss other people off. I have no idea how to make a decision thinking only about what I want.

Not sure about that pillar as I am an ENTJ and only have to turn round to find I have been put in charge of something!
I think FWH was attracted to my strong leadership qualities and as he is a bit narcissistic enjoyed basking in my reflection. Now I am no longer trying to please him all the time I am unstoppable! But therapy got me to see that agreeing to be in charge is just another form of people pleasing. And we don't need to do that any more do we?

My second sentence wasn't necessarily related to the first. But, I suppose, as there are so many flavours of fuckwitted men out there......there's hardly going to be a 'type' for the women who find themselves attached to said men.

I pleased myself today. I got a tattoo!

Roses: I disagree. The fuckwitted men are ALL very similar, their tactics are predictable.

I have/have had contact with about 20 women at the Freedom Programme, another 10 at the support group I go to. Another 20 odd on FB via MN, and I can honestly say that NOT ONE is dull, boring, mousey, dim witted, shallow or vapid. Every single one of them was beautiful both outside and in.

I therefore say that ALL women on here would fall into that category too.

We ALL of us are people pleasers, all of us are compassionate, caring and interested in the well being and happiness of those around us. All of us would put ourselves out for those we care about.

Just as THEY are very similar in their abuse of us, so WE are similar in our traits. Our niceness, our glow, our happiness and success is what draws these terrible moths to our flame, but instead of basking in our glow, they seek to extinguish it so THEY may glow instead.

I think mine might be a little different, as I thought we could rescue each other. He does not do the charm/charisma thing at all. The way he gets together with women is: they pounce on him, as I did.

This is going to sound a bit of a horrid comparison, but from a litter of kittens I would pick the runt, and redeem him/her with love...

Quite right Hissy
They have been cloned and it is our job as women who can recognize them to warn womenkind
I am a people pleaser. I like making people happy. I am also quite good at organizing things. No prizes for guessing who has been the exclusive beneficiary of both those traits for the last 30 years. Irony being that, of course, FWH was never pleased and complained about everything. Result? I now think that I cannot make people happy and I am rubbish at life.
Yesterday, we were talking about time thrown away on losers.
On a good day, like today, though, the relief of realizing that what has been done to me was NOTHING to do with any lack in me and much more what Hissy says i overwhelming and I feel like dancing (or, at least taking the dog for a walk)!
As my teenagers would say:
Yey Us!

I think the tactics can very greatly actually. It's the effects they have that are similar.

But I do think there are fundamental traits, as you say.

Fingers you nailed it as usual.
I lost all faith in my ability to cook, to celebrate people and events and to be the organising heart of the family. Leaving my DC with FWH was a torment and I felt I had failed.
But guess what? I met a new man with a family who love me and I can see that I bring happiness to them with my cakes, my sunday roasts, my daft ceremonies and my optimistic sunny disposition. And my DC have crept to my side and warmed themselves and I have realised that I can still create the home they need, maybe not as grandly, but with the warmth and love that matters.

pillar you are allowed a different view. You have met different people and your version is your own! xxx

Sounds like they are lucky, too, to have found you Littlehouse
double yey us :)