should I pay for my mum to see my children?

[givemeaclue]

me and mother do not get on - long history - we had counselling but it made things worse. She is very good grandmother and loves my dcs - whilst me and my mother don't want to spend time together I am very supportive of their relationship with her. She lives at opposite end of UK to me. She sees the dcs regularly but the current arrangements are that I fly up (easyjet) to where she lives with them, then fly back same day leaving them there (this is on my day off from work - dcs are pre school). She has them for 2 nights then flies back with them and then flies home. I am happy for them to stay longer as it is a lot of hassle for a 2 night trip however she feels this is long enough. Her expectation is that:

-I pay for it (approx £250 per trip plus airport parking etc)
-I will do 50% of the travelling (so we both do 2 flights in a day - me to take them up and her to bring them back)
-I book the tickets (faff on easyjet as its not straight forward return journeys as one direction of travel for both of us is without kids)

She is prepared to pay one quarter of the costs over the course of a year i.e 1 trip out of 4. She feels I should pay the majority as I earn more (she is retired on a small pension). i suggested that she do the majority of the travel as she has more time on her hands being retired and 1 work 4 days a week - she hasn't responded to that.

she has just sent me a message reminding me that we had a trip planned for august - she wants me to pay for it, do the booking and 50% of the travelling (as above).
I have just done this in March. It is costing me over £800 per annum for her to see the kids.

AIBU in thinking most people who want to see their grandchildren pay for it, travel and make the arrangements themselves. Is she taking the piss? On the other hand, she doesn't have a lot of money and I don't want finances to be a factor that prohibits them from seeing her.

Due to the travel distances - driving is not an option and the train journey is sooo loooong it turns into journey from hell even on your own let alone iwht 2 pre-school dcs.

Any advice on what I say re her latest request? don't want to make a bad relationship worse but neither do I want to be a mug.

sorry so long - thanks for reading!

If she is prepared to pay for 1 trip, take that as her contribution.

You however don't need to pay for any more than YOU want to do. So YOU too can choose to pay for ONE trip only.

I know you say that you had problems between you, but that she is a great GM to your DC.. How exactly IS that possible? She is the same person. While you think she is being OK to your DC, you know what she is capable of. I'd say that twice a year to see someone who clearly has issues with parenting is about right. You may be being guilted into this. She may develop the same issues with your DC as she did with you. I find it impossible that she could do otherwise.

She pays for her ONE trip, you pay for ONE trip. IF you want to go up again it's up to you, and IF she wants to add a further trip it's up to HER. She is trying to call the shots with YOUR money and YOUR family.

I've come to realise, having been catastrophically let down by my mum recently, that she is NOT actually a good mother. She adores my DS, and cares for him etc etc, but ultimately I am not bothered if we lose contact. If she were not my mum, after what she did, I'd have dropped her like a ROCK last year. I don't care for anyone that treacherous in my life, I don't care WHAT title they hold. Actions not words.

Long answer short OP? DO what suits YOU. If she wants more, let her pay for it. Sounds like she owes you more than you owe her.

Houdini has just said what l was struggling to put into coherent sentences.

Do what you want and can afford, but paying one trip each seems fair, if she wants any more contact she can pay for it.

Would you or your DC's miss this contact with your DM

Could she fly down, stay locally to you and spend time with the kids while you're at work? You could go out for a few evenings too? Only 1 flight and the kids will be off in August... You might need to be willing for her to use your house as a base though.

As a wider issue I think she is being unreasonable to expect you to pay several times more especially given your lack of relationship, but perhaps a different arrangement like the above could be a good compromise.

How does she treat you in general/ when talking about these visits?

If it was for a mum you loved and who loved you... well, there wouldn't be the problem, would there?

Maybe when the children are older you will be able to take them up for a week at Easter and a couple of separate weeks in the summer, to make it easier for you to have childcare through the school holidays.

Whilst they're really young, I wouldn't do it more than once a year, given you don't even like the woman. It sounds like too much hassle and done for her benefit rather than your children's.

I don't get whey she can't fly down and stay with you for 2 or 3 days and then fly back - much cheaper

Have her stay in your house on the days you are out at work and go out in the evenings so there is minimal contact.

Worth a try to see if you can both make it work?

Be blunt and tell her you can't afford it anymore but if she's willing to come down and stay for a couple of days you can both make the effort to be pleasant for one another.

The whole point is that the OP doesn't want to spend time with her mum - surely then she won't want her in her house?

If you don't want her to spend time with YOU why do you want her to spend time with your children?

And yes she is taking the piss regarding the money. The way it is all written down makes it sound like she expects you to pay for her to have access to the children. But she is not one of their parents so she isn't entitled to access.

If she wants to see them she needs to get off her arse and do something about it herself, with your permission.

She acting like she is entitled to them and that you are responsible for making sure it happens. She is a grandparent who you don't like and don't feel is good to be around. She's not entitled to anything no matter how much she tells you she is.

I don't understand why you would want your children to spend time with her? I don't understand how she can be a terrible mother but a brilliant Grandmother? I would be very worried about her spending time alone with them.

I would offer to pay for one trip, with her paying for anything additional. If she wants to spend time with her GC, then the onus is more on her to make it happen when cost is involved.

I think id say its no longer financially viable for you to do this but if she wants to see the children you will pay half her fare and help her find accomodation to stay in but your dc are not travelling to hers for a 2 day stint.

I think houdini gave fab advice and I too would be questioning how one can be a crap mother but a great grandma?

You know in your heart shes trying to control you as usual and now shes using your very own dcs relationship with her as the rock to roll on - dont rise to it - if she is a good a grandma as you think she would move heaven and high water to stay in contact....maybe this is the time to see just how good she is? especially whilst the dc are so young....once they are at school things would have to change anyway.

I agree with everyone else really.

I do think it is admirable that you are willing to try so hard for her to have a relationship with your children, when you don't have a great one with her yourself. With you actually paying for any of the trips & making the effort sounds like a lot on your part, so difficult for me to see how she feels you should pay for the majority??

If my mum was so awful that I didn't want to spend any time with her, then hell would freeze over before I'd let my child stay with her, and especially unsupervised. What a bizarre arrangement. And to top it all you're paying for this??

I'd rethink the whole thing if I were you.

Difficult one. Perhaps it is possible sometimes to be an OK grandmother, though not having been an "OK" mother?

You don't say what the issues have been with your mother. If its controlling issues or her "selfishness", then maybe this is what you dislike about this arrangement if she IS being controlling or selfish around this arrangement : but only you can really know if thats the case.

Either way, you can be "reasonable" about arrangements - but YOU have a right to protect your interests too. If spending loads of money and travelling loads doesn't suit you, it doesn't.

I would also be tempted to say that if she wants to see them more, then 2 or 3 days be extended. Again, it is HER opinion that 2 days is sufficient. I guess she loses interest after this time or its a bit harder work??? Looks like all the effort ect is down to you.

Agree with HH that I dont understand how she is a great GM but not mother?? I am just realising, as DD gets older, that her GM is beginning with some of the tactics she used on me. If its in their nature they just do it.

When she pays, if she wants to see them more she should extend their stay. If she doesnt want to then thats upto her. She's got to compromise really.

If you want to help out a bit by taking them one way then that's good but you shouldn't have to pay for most of the costs. I think it probably works well where you take them up and she returns them but she needs to pay her share otherwise on the one trip she pays for she will have to see them longer and then less trips throughout the year.

Do you really think she can't afford it?

Thanks to you all for taking the time to read and respond,its really helpful to get an outside opinion. Unfortunately her staying at my house is not an option - she wouldn't want to and I wouldn't want her to - we really have zero relationship outside of arranging for her to see the dcs and it would be a guaranteed disaster all round. i have come to terms with the fact I can't 'fix' our relationship (gawd knows I've tried). She is unfortunately manipulative and does behave in a way that makes me responsible for her 'entitlement' to see her grandchildren.

the verbatim email she sent me was:

"Much better for me to share travel you bring I return them.
Would like to do same August, October half term and just before xmas.
Away from before xmas to march. would like to fix dates for next year before end of this year. Suggest during easter hols, may half term.
Will you get August tickets??"

I think what I would like to say is:
'I will pay for the august visit and for half of the october half term visit to a maxium total of £375. it doesn't suit me to do the travelling and with you being retired and having more free time than me I would like you to do all the travelling moving forward. Re next year I will pay a maximum of £500 towards visits. '
Last year I paid for 3/4 of the trips (£750)and I think there is an expectation I will do same this year - she is on a low pension so if I suddenly spring it on her to pay for the trips this year all hell with break loose and I will in effect be limiting her opportunity to see them. having said that...she goes to spain for 3 months a year...

what do you think?

I honestly think you are mad. If she wants to see them, then the onus is on her to book a flight, stay in a hotel near to you, and do it that way.

Once your children are older, they can travel up to see her on their own IF they want to.

It is your business of course and you don't need to tell us about it - but really? Why do you want her in their lives?

if you can afford the money and thats not the problem, then I think you should do what is right for your children whatever you think that is and contribute your time/money appropriately.

Putting your children first is a gift from you to them and not one it seems that your mother was able to give you. If she is a better grandmother than mother and you believe despite your own relationship with her that your children benefit from it then you should contribute what you are able to facilitate their relationship.

If the money and/or time is a big issue or if your children don't get a positive benefit from the contact, then don't. Make it clear to her what the problem really is.

Why can't she fly down to you, and stay a week in a b&b or travelodge, and see the children each day?

I don't think I would buy the hard-up pensioner story if she can afford to go to Spain for three months each year.

By all means take them up to see her once a year and pay for the trip yourself, but I think the onus should be on her to arrange and pay for any other visits.

No you are way tooo generous.
She is expecting you to pay--just say no. Why should you be out of pocket just to please her.
Suggest slightly longer and fewer visits. say x 2 yearly and as she is retired and can afford 3 months in Spain she can well afford the time and expense to see the DC's.
It will be interesting to see just how keen she is to see them if she has to make more of any effort and has to pay for it.

I totally understand where you're coming from OP, my mum has ceased contact with me since Christmas but still wants me to facilitate her relationship with them. It's very hard, I don't want them to hate me for ending their relationship with her, however, they're my children and I'm starting to think that o shouldn't have to be the one that makes the effort for them to keep in touch with her.

I wouldn't pay, you don't owe her this, even when we did have contact she did most of the travelling. She should arrange to co e and see them and if she wants you to bring them to her then she should pay.

Presumably their is a reason you don't talk, does this effect things with the children?

I think her using her control over your children also eans she has an element of control over your finances.

Say no.

If she is truly a good grandmother then she will do it because she wants to see your children - if it really is all about control and punishing you then it will soon become apparent.

Dont let her dictate the situation, the pre school years only last a short time.

She goes to Spain for 3m so wants to schedule the visits for the GC to come and see her?

WTAF?

Stuff that for a game of soldiers. She is TELLING you when YOU need to bring YOUR DC to see her... and at the majority of your expense. When she 'winters' in Benidorm or wherever. Oh someone get me a tiny music case, I need to pack away the tiny violin playing here for her.

She wants you to do the August tickets cos they will undoubtedly be the most expensive. she is manipulating you into thinking that you have to deliver your DC when it suits her. This is not an obligation, this is not an access visit. She is demanding things that don't necessarily suit. GP HAVE practically zero rights.

I worry that if she was such an awful mother that you and she can't be in the same room, what kind of GP is she to them when you are not there. Would she respect your wishes? Would she bad mouth you? She WILL start to use the tactics she used on you on them when the time comes, you know that don't you?

ATM she is uber-nice gran to them now, but may use that to sideline you and marginalise you in time. I am paranoid perhaps, but I've lived with manipulative control freaks.... they don't change. They have an IMMENSE capacity for biding their time. What positive influence will this mother SO dreadful be on the most precious people in your life? Seriously? why would you want them having too much unsupervised contact with them?

Do what suits you. Nothing more, nothing less. She doesn't deserve all this running about on her behalf.

What does your instinct tell you when you drop them off to hers? That they are safe, happy, loved? Do you skip off to the airport happy that they are with her, spend the weekend thinking how lucky they are, relaxed until you pick them up again? What IS your gut feeling on this?

Her tone with you is clipped. She is instructing you.

I worry that she has manipulated and controlled you into a position of fear, so that you do as you are told to keep her off your back.