DS and DD really don't like each other and can't/won't get on.

[IDontWantToBeFatAnymore]

They have said they hate each other and wish they were not here. . I don't know what to do. They are 11 and eight.

DH sent DS1 to the step and it escalated and now he has been sent to bed.

I really wish I had not had kids. I am sick of them being so rude, unhelpful, disrespectful and spoilt. All my fault I know but I am still wishing I hadn't had them as I have fucked it all up. And we have to go to inlaws tmw and make small talk with BIL and BIL and even DH doesn't want to do that.

It is working but I really can't understand why they would want us telling them off if they are misbehaving for attention . I feel responsible. Some times I look to DH to deal with it as I am all out of ideas or feel they haven't listened to me before but need calling on something they have done or said. I think he is as fed up with me as with their behaviour.

I just said to DH I feel I have let him down but he said not.

The 2 youngest are currently being silly buy playing together

I have to play Goldenballs now as I feel sad for ds1 that we don't do a lot together and he is very keen too.

I lived my childhood in fear. It is great they aren't but please will you just learn when to stop?!?!?!?!?

While I agree with all that's been said about bickering, can I just post a word of warning about bullying?

I spent my childhood in terror of my brother because my mum wouldn't get involved. My dad was away a lot and mum insisted we were to sort it out ourselves. In actual fact, I was beaten up on many occasions. My brother learned he could throw his weight around by threatening me and that it was his right to hurt me; I learned that bigger, stronger males would always win the argument and (from my mother) that I deserved to be hit.

Not really messages to teach children, I think: "she made me angry, I couldn't help it, if she hadn't argued with me, answered back, it wouldn't have happened. She deserved it." where have we heard those excuses?

Eventually, my brother beat me up so badly, he messed up my face and our father finally saw the black eye, swollen face, split lip and we both learned new lessons. My brother learned that, if he ever hit a woman again, there'd be hell to pay from someone bigger and stronger than him; I learned that I wasn't on my own, expected to take whatever was thrown at me.
Incredibly, I can still remember my mother being angry with me and blaming me for getting him into trouble.

I just wanted to say, fair enough that they should learn to sort out their own differences but do make sure that one isn't victimised by the other. In my book, if someone throws punches, that immediately puts them in the wrong. They need to learn that physical abuse is never acceptable.

Sorry if I've wandered off topic a bit, but I do think it needs to be said.

And considering my son appears to have scarred his sister after throwing something at her, it is a timely reminder, thank you. DD actually hit her other brother yesterday as she said he hit her. I always tell them that doesn't give them the right to hit back and to tell me. She retorts that I never do anything .

Hiya, I have a brother 2 years younger and we had some terrible fights growing up, physical (generally him losing his temper during a disagreement and hitting me) until turned verbal when we got to our teens (main topic then was his refusal to help with household chores and me getting overinvolved in trying to get him to help, we were "latchkey" kids).

Got on much better once I left home at 18, wouldn't say we're v close but have a generally affectionate relationship now (both in 30s).

Our parents had a policy of not getting involved in terms of deciding who was to blame, we both got punished for fighting. This was OK up to a point, eg to avoid telling tales over minor squabbles, but I completely agree with tanith. If one sibling is generally the one who gets physical, or bullies the other (eg nasty verbal abuse), it isn't fair to the other sibling for the parents not to do something about that, or indeed good for the one who is being violent or bullying.

Now am a parent (2 DDs, v young) am concerned to avoid stuff like this, I intend to have a zero tolerance approach to physical violence, not sure how this will go yet!

Would recommend the book "siblings without rivalry", some v useful tips in there. Think it said that parents should always intervene re violence and offers some approaches.

Why do you feel you have let your DH down? Surely anything to do with the Dc is as much his responsibility as yours?

Keep going. i can remember my mum being in tears / storming off sometimes due to my dad but also us , we always knew when she couldn't take anymore as no meals would be served. A couple of times she also just left for a week!

Another vote too for "how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk".

Also (not quite as applicable, but interesting, especially on lying) "Nurtureshock" by po bronson.

I am with the kids more and also I used to work in child care and was really good with those kids. Not so much with my own.

But just cos you're with them more doesn't mean you're more responsible, you're both equally responsible, and two heads is better than one when tackling problems.Think you're being a little too hard on yourself.

I suppose I see them as my responsibilty.

IDont when you say that you've told your dcs to work it out with themselves, what do you expect to happen?

At the moment, 'sorting it out with themselves' means using physical force, shouting, putting the other down.
Have you ever seen them being able to 'negociate' in any other way?

What I am trying to get at, is that you will have to get involved for some time in their 'disagreement'. If possible as soon as you can hear their voices going up.
You need to teach tem how to negociate and to respect the other's pov and they won't be able to do that wo some help. Not at the moment because their 'habit' is to do it 'the wrong way'.

I would really recommend to read 'Sibling rivalry' because they explain that much better than I do.

But I can also tell you it IS working because after a lot of effort of my part and sometimes loosing my patience completely, my 2 can negociate. Even though dc1 is very much a 'leader' and doesn't like to take anyone else pov into account and dc2 has some major issues with language and expressing himself.

Finally, I agree with a few other posters who mentioned the fact that one (or 2) siblings might be in a weak position and always take the of the others.
You might want to try and listen to your dcs conversation whilst you are in a different room and check if there isn't a pattern where one is in effect getting bullied.

I think the older two are strong personalities and won't be told what to do by the other one. They have no worries about being rude to me or their dad. I can see they are normal kids in lots of ways and most of the problem is me projecting about my feelings as a child and not being able to stay calm a lot of the time as I am permanently knackered and lacking in confidence. I also worry too much about how they will remember their childhoods.

ffs

dh has only been one two minutes

gone
not fucking one

What to say when the kids say "it is your fault I....." basically blaming me for how they have behaved. I know it is my fault as I should have sorted this out before but ffs I can't be 100% to blame for the fact that they are like they are. Or maybe I am.

Ohhh be careful not to mix up what they do with who they are!!!

They are the way they are, their temparament, things that come easy to them etc.... not a thing you can do about that.

What they do is their responsability! Your role is to educate them ie to teach and guide but in the end what they do is their choice.
as a parent, you need to guide more or less depending of their age and abilities but at the end of the day you can not be responsible of their acts.

Your ds is 11yo now, he coming close to be a teenager who really IS responsible of his choices. It doesn't mean you should stop guiding him or educating him. But you need to give back responsability whwre it belongs even if you think that you could have done some stuff differently.

My mantra is my house (and it DOES apply to me too) is:

• your actions your responsability
• your anger, your responsability (ie you can not hold someone else responsible if you get angry and you can not pass your anger on someone else either).

How much responsabilities do they have in the house (putting the table, putting things away, putting thigs away from dishwasher, their bedrooms, dirty clothes etc...)? may be it's time to remind them that with age also come some responsabilites?

As to I would say 'No, it's not my fault. I am not you, I do not decide for you to '

If any of mine said that i would use my best sarcastic tone of voice (which i dont use that often)
" oh yes i twisted your arm and made you do it"
Then tell them I wont listen to any nonsense of that kind and they are responsible for their own behaviour and send them to their room.

not being able to stay calm a lot of the time as I am permanently knackered and lacking in confidence
Perhaps more than parenting tips, what you really need to address is that?

Are you sure that you don't have any underlying health problem (iron deficiency, thyroid ...)?

I have tried to explain they are responsible for what they do and say but they haven't got it yet.

We all just had lunch together. I talked to them about how we could have been at nanny and grandad's now but we had to stay at home due to their behaviour. Lunch was fine. Afterwards I had them doing age appropriate writing, times tables, sums and it was all fine . I told them I was going to the loo and what I expected them to be like when I was back and what they could do if they were doing it. All fine again .

We started giving them £5 a week and they were expected to empty the dishwasher and sweep the floor two days a week and strip their beds once a week. That was soon reduced as they just weren't doing their jobs but expected the full fiver. They have to do everything you know. .

All tests have been fine but I have discovered I have severe restless legs so I wake a lot in the night.

DH doesnt get on with his younger dsis, she is attention seeking, and twists things to make him look bad. They have never got on and their mum still trys to get us all together, its like trying to put two magnets together it really is.

I think they may have worked it out better with the "I dont want to hear it I find it very boring" approach, as it is mil appeases her teenage side (shes 42 ffs) so shes never had to act like an adult.

MIL used to smack both of them when they argued to make sure she got the right one!

I feel for your daughter when she says you never do anything. My brother was vile to me for many years and my parents never did anything - just told us off equally for fighting. But it was ALWAYS started by him because he was a nasty bully who took pleasure from seeing others cry.

If one child is just plain nasty then treating the two equally is not going to work - because the nasty one will go on being nasty because they enjoy it, and the one who would be happy to ignore the other for ever finds themself on the receiving end of their sibling's nastiness AND their parents' tellings off.

My brother has children now. Last Christmas I bought him a book about how to avoid sibling rivalry/fighting. I hope it works.