DS and DD really don't like each other and can't/won't get on.

[IDontWantToBeFatAnymore]

They have said they hate each other and wish they were not here. . I don't know what to do. They are 11 and eight.

Just say that you aren't interested in horrible words, and to go to their rooms until you are calm enough to speak to them about it.

At 8 and 11 they should be old enough to realise that a very angry mum, is a very unpleasant one.

It is hard for you. My sister and I ignored each other as much as we could at 10 and 8 years old- our crunch point came when she was 13/14 and I was 15/16. Looking back, I am amazed at how sane my mother stayed.

I used the I don't want to know but there was chuntering and answering me back. Not so easy to send them to their rooms when out - is it far to do it when we get back if time has passed?
Just got something off DS1 that he was mean to DS2 too about and cracked my head on his bunk bed. Shit day.

My mum used to send me to bed early if I was mardy.

Her reasoning was that we were normally very cheerful well behaved children, so if we were rude it must be because we were tired or coming down with something. No electronics were allowed in bedrooms anyway, and she would take all my books out.

I can only offer you a chocolate mini roll in consolation- I ate all the time-out bars.

Your last sentence made me smile.

I have told ds1 he is not to come out of his room for the rest of today. DH hasn't seen him yet. My head hurts and I feel tearful. I feel so sad. I so wanted children. I am not enjoying them anywhere near as much as I should. I feel I have failed them big time.

My brother and I hated each other as children. Properly hated each other (after 1 fight the babysitter refused to ever come back). Now we get on much better.

I like the 'early to bed' option. I suspect their behaviour will improve if they know that the boredom of early bedtimes is guaranteed.

The best thing your DH can do is not get angry.

"I'm really disappointed to hear how you behaved today. I trust you, at x years old, to behave politely, especially when you are out and about. Let's try a bit harder tomorrow, shall we? Goodnight"

and leave it at that, even if they come out begging and begging to stay up.

We have tried early to bed. DD says the earlier she is sent to bed the later she goes to sleep. She does have trouble sleeping/getting to sleep but I have given her all the things she needs to help and lots of ideas but she says none work she thinks she knows best and won't try most of them

She is the 8 year old?

She is 8.8. ds1 is 11.

Dressing gown belt

Loop round both wrists

Tell them not to undo it and they will remain tied together until they learn to cooperate with each other.

Leave about 30 mins

Repeated for about 3 days before they get the picture.

(hides from social services)

Hopefully it will pass soon.

I hated my brother. He was the most awful thing in the whole wide world. To the point of pushing him down the stairs!! he was absolutely fine.

We were about 13 and 10 when we finally got on. I'm the eldest.

Tying them together sounds great but I know they would just kick each other. DS1 wants DD gone .

Well she's not going anywhere. And neither is he tied to her.

Does she seem to get more time with you than he does?

Not at all. If anything DS1 gets more time with DH. DS1 moaned about me giving in to DS2 today but he is a lot younger and had just had a painful accident. He hates how she is, personality and behaviour wise.

Are they complete opposites personality wise? Or very similar?

Maryz's got it. Just continue sending them to their rooms when it kicks off - and ignore any protestations of innocence. My elder two fought endlessly as small children - continued until they were teenagers. I also sent them to their rooms and removed privileges. Did they learn, well, yes, by and large we did still get the odd flare up - but it soon stoped when they were sent to their bedrooms!

One thing you will notice, however, is that if anyone outside the family threatens them - they will suddenly become 'one unit' against the outside aggressor.

DD is stubborn, DS1 is not. Not really similar. I try naughty step/their rooms. They just refuse to go.

I hated my brother when we were young, we fought all the time, proper nasty physical fights, as well as the cruel verbal taunting, and I truly wished he was dead, I felt he ruined my life and was furious with my parents for having him.

Now as adults we are perfectly civil when we see each other on family occasions, and I can see that my feelings at the time were a bit unreasonable - though I do think I would have been much happier as an only child, it's one of my reasons for only wanting one myself. I'd possibly in fact be a calmer and happier person as an adult if I hadn't had a childhood full of hatred and violence. Nothing to be done about it now, of course.

What I'm trying to say is they may get on well later as adults, but equally they may never particularly like each other. And either way is fine IMO. You're not obliged to like someone just because you happen to be related.

I agree with keeping them apart as much as possible, preventing these incidents is better than punishing for them afterwards (which just leads to more resentment against the sibling IME). Don't try to force them to get on or like each other.

Have you read Siblings without Rivalry ? It has some good techniques and insights.

My two are still only little (1.3 and 3.8) but I have found it enlightening, particularly with regard to the relationship between my older brother and myself.

Okay.

DS1 already been stroppy but I stayed calm.

DS2 looks like he has been hit with a massive thing and has a swollen face but I have made his favourite cake so he is happy. I also have a new dvd for him later.

DD is going to nanny and grandad's for a couple of days shortly so she is happy.

I am going to make notes. I might look an idiot with notes pinned up but if it helps me and therefore them then it is worth it.

Note made to read siblings without rivalry, thanks for that.

Mine are nearly 9 (ds) and nearly 8 (dd).

I follow Maryz's line and punish both - dh always says punishment irrespective of guilt is a breach of the European Convention of Human Rights :), but I figure it all evens out over time. Sometimes ds will have started it and sometimes dd.

The other thing I do when I hear them kick off is shout that they have until I count to 20 to reach a mutually statisfactory solution to whatever they are arguing about, otherwise I will come and sort it out for them. My solutions benefit no one eg. if they are arguing about the TV, no TV for the rest of the day.

Usually I too say I am not interested in whose fault it was but very occassionally I find I do need to know what happened. We sit in the hallway until they agree on a version of events. Every lie I discover results in 10 minutes earlier to bed. Generally I have the truth now in a matter of minutes and they both fall over themselves to admit guilt as the sanctions for admitting guilt are better than those for lying to me.

Are they competing for your attention? Are they perhaps distressed by your ill health- do they understand what's going on? They're old enough to know things aren't ok for you.

Maryz advice is spot on