Support thread for survivors of childhood sexual abuse PART 2

[CailinDana]

The original thread is here

The purpose of these threads is to allow survivors of childhood sexual abuse, their partners, friends, or parents, to talk in a safe place about what they think and feel. Nothing is off limits or taboo, just say what you want to say.

Some useful links from the previous thread:

Samaritans
National Association for People Abused in Childhood
Rape Crisis
Pandoras, a chat room for survivors and their families, American based
Mosac, for non abusing parents and carers, London based
Women against rape self help guide to court

To ramble further (might as well take advantage of being a bit squiffy!) I think today there is still very much an "us and them" attitude towards children. I often see posts from parents on MN describing their own children in really really negative terms, terms that I would never use to describe anyone, let alone my own child. I've seen it in schools, as a teacher too. There is very little attempt made to understand why a child is acting out - the automatic assumption is that they're "naughty" and "uncooperative" and that they're behaviour must be stopped by any (reasonable) means. IME children don't act out for nothing, they don't enjoy being in trouble and being disliked, they act out because they're troubled, or depressed or experiencing abuse.

When I was a teacher colleagues often commented on how well behaved children in my class were, even the ones who in previous classes had been a "nightmare," despite the fact that I rarely used sanctions and I never ever got cross or raised my voice. The extremely simple reason that was the case was because I didn't just assume a child was being naughty, I assumed they were having difficulty of some kind and tried to help them. Sometimes all that involved was letting a child zone out for a minute until they calmed down, other times it was a matter of convincing a child over a long period that I would never ever scream at them like all the other adults in their life had. I often think we expect a ridiculous amount from children. We expect them to sit all day in a boring classroom and not talk to their friends (how many of us ever do that at work??), we expect them to complete work on time, we expect them to put up with being shouted at and punished when we would never stand for that ourselves in our own work environment. I honestly think that if we actually treated children like real people instead of little annoyances the world would end up a much better place. I do think a small number of people are born bad, but the vast majority of cruel evil adults started out life as fresh babies full of potential and got so beaten down by the world around them that they didn't really have a hope.

Well said Cailin.

CD, I agree with everything you have said. It's brilliant that you're a teacher. You are perfect for the job because like you've said, children are rarely bad or naughty. They are trying to communicate something by their behaviour which they are too young to understand themselves or verbalise.

Do you still teach? I hope so, you can offer so much more besides the academic teaching.

I started misbehaving at school when I was around 10 which is when the abuse started at home. But this was in the late 70's and none of the teachers realised why a previously well behaved child suddenly began behaving very badly.

One thing I don't agree with is the bit where you said a small number of people are born bad. I think we are all born ready and wanting to love and be loved but are very easily damaged and hurt by damaging parents which leads to 'bad' behaviour.

You should enjoy paint fumes more often!! Excellent points.

I had the pressure to not cuddle etc my DS, just made me do it more. My family is very victorian and not tactile at all so I can see how that style of parenting has come about.

I agree with the childrens behaviour. I taught excluded children and our team turned them around almost instantly by treating them as valuable individual people and spotting the highly unrecognised dyslexia/dispraxia/mh/family problems the kids had.

Good on you for reading all that dotty

I'm not a teacher any more Jasmine, I'm a SAHM. I'm not sure I will ever go back to teaching tbh, I found it far too stressful. There is so much paperwork that it stood in the way of actually teaching. It frustrated me to the point of distraction. I am thinking of becoming a childminder though. For the time being I'm just happy looking after DS.

PP, in that case I'm wierd and twattish too because I cannot stand back and do and say nothing if children are being abused, neglected, maltreated. I'm abnormal too but I'm glad about that. We need more of us around not less.

CD, yes I thought you were a SAHM but thought maybe you did a bit of part time teaching. I'm happy being a SAHM too. Very happy.

Can totally understand teaching being stressful. You'd be perfect for child minding too. I would be very happy if my children were in your care.

Aww that's lovely jasmine, thank you :)

I agree Jasmine, I don't think people are born bad, just severly damaged along the way.

It's not that long since corporal punishment has been banned but how can anybody stand there and witness a child, or woman for that matter, being physically beaten?

Or how can anybody stand there and listen to someone tell a child they are ugly, evil, stupid etc? and not do anything, why do people talk to those they are closest too abusively.

There is some evidence that psychopathy is genetic. Psychopathic people have a mental disorder from birth, apparently, that means they don't feel any genuine emotion but do learn very well how to imitate emotional states and to manipulate the emotions of others. True psychopaths are very very rare but an example would be Ted Bundy. He had an unusual upbringing, but no serious trauma and yet he killed 32 people and showed absolutely no remorse. That's a whole different scale of evil than what we're talking about here though.

PP, I don't know either. But my mother did it, stood and watched while my dad laid into me. In fact I stood up for her and my sisters instead of her standing up for us. Maybe most people are just cowards? I really don't know, especially when it's your own children being hurt.

Re talking to those closest abusively, that's how I grew up. It was considered weak and soft in my family to be nice to each other. I only learnt there was another way of doing things through being with DH.

See I was opposite a very withdrawn child bullied and wouldn't of dared answered back any adult buit they never saw what I was like before the abuse because I was so young my natural personality never emerged. But even my parents stiffled us not just him but he was so loving towards me. Lots of things are coming back again now that I'm on my own with just my thoughts.

Dotty if it helps please do write your thoughts here.

I think my mother was either born without a genuine ability to care for others, or her difficult childhood made her totally unable to deal with others' pain. She shields herself from any difficulty in life - rather than acknowledge any suffering and offer help, she just pretends it isn't happening.

Also if people are severely damaged along the way how aren't more of us continuing the cycle of abuse.

As well my darling brother was the golden child who could do no wrong, I was told that when I was 12 I knew right from wrong and it was my fault HE was 24.

CD, I hadn't heard of that, will read up more. But is it possible that what was thought to be a brain defect from birth was actually caused by very early trauma, like severe neglect by the mother, for which there would rarely be any proof or evidence other than the brain defect found later in the adult.

I remember seeing a programme once about psychopaths and it was found that they hadn't received enough love and affection as babies so their brains didn't develop as they should have, particularly emotional empathy. Also books such as Sue Gerhardt's, Why Love Matters - How Affection Shapes A Baby's Brain also back up this theory.

My mother had a wonderful childhood Cailin she always went on about it and my Aunt and Uncles are/where wonderful kind and caring people.

dotty, I did continue the abusive pattern of my childhood to some degree with DD and with DH. It was only as I gained awareness and insight into myself and my behaviour that I began to break the cycles. If a person never develops insight and self awareness, they will unconsciously repeat the patterns of behaviour from their childhood with their own children.

All abusers have themselves been abused. But not all abusers will go on to abuse. I read that some where and think it's very true.

Sorry, not all those who were abused will go on to abuse.

Cailin, I was thinking Ted Bundy but do wonder if there was something hidden about his childhood, to blame him rather than abuse he suffered?

Dotty, I was thinking that the other night. I had verbal and physical abuse from the offset, my mother blamed me for my sibling being born with brain damage, she influenced the entire family with her hatred of me, she fully believes I was evil in the womb! I'm a twin and my being fat and greedy squashed my twin and caused her to be born late hence the brain damage!

Jasmine my brother wasn't he was absolutely spoilt treated totally different PFB they tried to do the same with all their first born grandchildren but weren't allowed.

Jasmine I was very angry but not physically abusive my anger only stopped when I disclosed to police, unfortunately I never realised I was like that so must of been abusive then and a bad mother in that case.

Do your kids think you're a bad mum though Dotty, does your husband or you friends.

Not all abused go on to abuse, very few infact. I turned my abuse in on myself, I have self harmed as a parent, that must make me a bad parent then.

Jasmine, hug x

No Plink they don't don't have many real friends I offered to leave but was told not to be daft.

And no it doesn't make you a bad parent your kids weren't harmed I feel mine where emotionally.