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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Sensitive question about H

709 replies

ThreeLittlePandas · 14/03/2012 11:52

I've been putting off asking this because I'm scared of what your answers might be. I'm really evaluating my relationship with h atm and wondering wether to leave him and I think the answer to my question might heavily influence my decision.

Blush in advance.

Dh and I rarely have sex. When we do it is rather boring but he is considerate.

The other evening I went to bed early as I was desperately tired. I was woken a few hours later my dh who had his fingers in me. I was heavily asleep and by the time I realised what was happening he was having sex with me. He finished quickly and that was it. I really hadn't wanted to have sex and feel like I wasn't given an option. The next day I felt a bit angry and almost violated to be honest.

I'm not looking for anything other than an opportunity to talk this through because it's been bothering me. This is about the third time in the last couple of years that something like this has happened.

OP posts:
curiousgeorgie · 15/03/2012 12:06

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CailinDana · 15/03/2012 12:06

To add, you can't ever assume that someone wants sex. A good few times I've started to have sex with DH and then felt too tired, or just lost the mood for some reason and we've stopped. If I were asleep, how would he know if I wanted it at all? Sex without consent is rape.

fabwoman · 15/03/2012 12:06

"fabwoman - Everytime your husband has sex with you he is supposed to come over and politely ask??"

No, CG, of course he doesn't. That isn't what I said at all HmmAngry.

ErikNorseman · 15/03/2012 12:06

It's saying that men sometimes need telling things a few times before they do things. In the loosest possible example, maybe now he gets it, she doesn't like it. But don't you think being bewildered is quite telling?

No decent, NT man should need telling, even once, that sex without the person's consent is not ok. However, that point is moot anyway because OP has already told her H not to do it. He knew she didn't like it, she has told him already. So he had sex with her knowing that she wasn't consenting and didn't want him to

What part of that doesn't mean rape to you?

curiousgeorgie · 15/03/2012 12:07

Charbon - I don't need to talk to anyone. I haven't been raped, I don't feel violated or that what my husband has done is in any way wrong. But thanks for your concern.

CailinDana · 15/03/2012 12:07

It is rape, Curious. It is rape. Sex without consent is rape. It doesn't matter how bewildered he is, it is still rape.

BoffinMum · 15/03/2012 12:08

Was he actually awake himself? I ask because there is a rare medical condition where people do this in their sleep.

Here

CailinDana · 15/03/2012 12:08

Just to add Curious, if your DH knows you're ok with him having sex with you while you're asleep, then you have consented, and it isn't rape.

LucyManga · 15/03/2012 12:12

Pandas, I do hope you are OK and coping alright today. Please come back if you need more support.

Charbon · 15/03/2012 12:14

I disagree Georgie. You might not want to talk to anyone, but you do need to talk to someone and is I think, why you're on this thread. You also know that it is wrong because you've told your husband 'not to do it again' (your words). But he ignores you and keeps doing it. If you didn't think it was wrong and you approved of your husband's behaviour, you wouldn't have asked him not to repeat it. So there is a healthy response buried somewhere in all those bargains you've been making. All is not lost.

camaleon · 15/03/2012 12:16

Everytime my husband has sex with me he asks for my consent, not verbally of course. But sex does not happen if we are not both into it. Is it different for you curious? I insist on the suggestion that you should open your own thread. It seems like you have lots to tell

Heleninahandcart · 15/03/2012 12:16

Well he wasn't bewildered when he started making nasty digs in front of the DC so you cannot reply. IMO 'bewildered' most likely means

shit, she's called me on my nasty little game. I'll just act benignly confused whilst I come up with something to put her back in her place

Pandas although you feel stunned right now, it is so clear he really does know what he's been doing.

curiousgeorgie · 15/03/2012 12:18

Charbon - Don't treat me like the OP and try to convince me I've been raped. I have not - and the only reason I ever tell him not to do it again is because it keeps me awake and I have to get up for my baby in the morning. I tell him off the next day when I am tired. The same way I have a go at him for not putting the bins out, or not bringing home milk. I'm sorry you feel the need to try and make me agree to this and I suppose eventually take my daughter and leave my loving husband? Sorry, I'm more self assured than that.

NettleTea · 15/03/2012 12:21

Equally, I've told my husband not to do it before, because i'm tired, and i've been pissed off the next day.. because I haven't been able to get back to sleep and have ended up awake all night. I didn;t verbalise this in this way to my husband.. I just said 'Don't do it again!'... but it happens again, the same way he forgets to wash up or doesn't bring home milk... not as a serious crime.

But it IS a serious crime. Whether you class it as one or just an 'annoyance' if you have told someone not to do it, then you are specifically NOT giving consent. Ring rape crisis and ask them, or ask the police. Technically it IS a crime. Its called rape.

Just because you, and an awful lot of women, seemto laugh and joke about it, and say pathetically that its 'just what men do' in a way that makes them out to be harmless, slightly idiotic, simple minded creatures, with references as to 'how they need to be told things several times before it sinks in' just perpetuates the myth that men are somehow at the mercy of their uncontrollable urges, and that it is the way of life for women to be constantly batting them away with irritation in a sort of benny Hill style universe. And keeps men AND women thinking that this is OK and to be expected.

Even my 12 year old daughter understood. she said 'how could people NOT think it is rape, just because he is her husband'

And as an aside, a few weeks back I checked something out for myself. My DP and I sometimes have 'sleepy sex' Sometimes he has not known he was awake when it has started, but we have both been fully aware before anything beyond caressing has taken place. Ive always been up for it, soI thought, this time, I would not respond, just to see. You know what? He stopped. He was 'fully ready' (TMI but I could feel it behind me Blush) but I didnt respond so he did what a normal loving man would do, kissed me on the back of the neck, turned round, and went to sleep. Thats what a MAN does. They dont just carry on regardless thinking of their own gratification.

thats why your posts are causing concern CG. Maybe you dont want to see it. maybe you dont feel that way. maybe you are happy to minimise it, but it doesnt make it right, it doesnt make OP wrong, it doesnt stop it LEGALLY and CRIMINALLY being rape.

ShirleyKnot · 15/03/2012 12:22

I'm reporting you curious because I think you need telling by MNHQ that the way you're acting is inappropriate on a supprt thread.

The OP has said she doesn't like it, the OP has said she is "ignoring the idiots" - she meant posters saying stuff like you, that's who she meant by idiots - she has confronted the husband and he is acting like a shit...

at what point do you think to yourself "I know, I think I'd better fuck off out of this thread, I don't mind my husband doing stuff to me when I'm unconcious, but this woman clearly does and me banging on is actually probably pretty upsetting and harmful"

Or maybe you don't...

oh and the best thing you've written so far was "I'm out of here" please, PLEASE do this.

curiousgeorgie · 15/03/2012 12:23

You read this to your 12 year old???

CailinDana · 15/03/2012 12:25

You are ok with this sexual practice and don't consider it rape. That's fine. I'm not going to tell you you have been raped. The OP told her DH not to do it, she explicitly withdrew consent for this practice, she is absolutely not ok with it. Her DH did it anyway. That is rape, plain and simple.

To put it into context for you, how would you feel if your DH did something sexual that you weren't happy with (anal perhaps) more than once, after you had told him not to do it? Would you be ok with that?

curiousgeorgie · 15/03/2012 12:25

Shirley - So these threads need to only have one point of view? You think you can only be supportive by telling her over and over again that she has been raped?

camaleon · 15/03/2012 12:26

curious,
You do not feel violated, so your experience is irrelevant to the OP. I do not think we are in a position of telling you how to feel about your relationship with the information you provided. I cannot say you have a problem in your hands.
As others I hope panda is OK and that you finally see you have nothing to contribute to her experience with your own 'i do not feel violated' business

curiousgeorgie · 15/03/2012 12:27

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Heleninahandcart · 15/03/2012 12:27

CG you say you are happy with your situation but although you say you want to give what you believe is a balanced response on the OP's behalf, you are repeatedly sounding like this is all about you. Just because you are apparently content to think what your DH does is ok, it doesn't make it ok for the OP. Please start your own thread for your own situation.

CailinDana · 15/03/2012 12:28

Curious what you're basically saying is that the OP shouldn't feel the way she feels. That's not a viewpoint, that's a judgement. It's not supportive.

The OP said she doesn't like it, she feels violated. You telling her that it's ok because you're ok with it is not supportive. It is belittling her feelings.

This isn't a debate thread, it's a support thread for someone going through a very hard time. We are here to validate the OP's feelings not minimise them.

NettleTea · 15/03/2012 12:29

No, CG I didnt read this to my 12 year old. Im not bloody stupid. And she knows there are things on this board that she is too young to need to know details of.

We were talking about the MN campaign and talking about the rape myths.

She was astounded that there had needed to BE a change in the law to define rape within marriage. And we were discussing different situations where you might not be in a position to say 'no' (such as drunk/drugged/asleep)

curiousgeorgie · 15/03/2012 12:30

Helen - You say I'm making it all about me but thats what people do when they give advice, they refer it back to experiences they have had. People other than myself have done it on this thread.. 'I was raped' or 'when this happened to me' 'I tested my husband and he stopped'....etc etc.

CailinDana · 15/03/2012 12:30

Curious, do you really believe you have to make it crystal clear to a man that you don't want sex while you're unconscious?? Seriously? She's told him three times, how many more times does she have to tell him before it's crystal clear?? Surely once is enough?? He's not intellectually impaired.

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