Sensitive question about H

[ThreeLittlePandas]

I've been putting off asking this because I'm scared of what your answers might be. I'm really evaluating my relationship with h atm and wondering wether to leave him and I think the answer to my question might heavily influence my decision.

in advance.

Dh and I rarely have sex. When we do it is rather boring but he is considerate.

The other evening I went to bed early as I was desperately tired. I was woken a few hours later my dh who had his fingers in me. I was heavily asleep and by the time I realised what was happening he was having sex with me. He finished quickly and that was it. I really hadn't wanted to have sex and feel like I wasn't given an option. The next day I felt a bit angry and almost violated to be honest.

I'm not looking for anything other than an opportunity to talk this through because it's been bothering me. This is about the third time in the last couple of years that something like this has happened.

When did this start happening? Was it after you had the toddler/got married, and so were more 'dependant' upon him or felt a moral responsibility to stay due to taking your marriage seriously (you had obviously proved you could look after yourself and your older children before he came along) Men often dont show their true colours until they have got a woman into a situation where the man feels secure that she would find it very difficult, if not impossible, to get away.

Did he get together with you in a 'heroic' way - really helping you out and being super supportive during a hard time in your life? And involved quickly. I am assuming nothing nasty happened prior to you getting married - were you married before or after your pregnancy? Sorry for so many questions, Im just trying to see what he is doing here, certainly not looking for any way to put any responsibility onto you.

I'm sure he was bewildered. I really don't think he thinks he has done anything wrong. He has done wrong but I don't think he has meant to abuse you. Sorry if that is not helpful. I am on your side TLP. I really am. But you sound bewildered and lost too. I think you probably feel worse today than you did yesterday. . I'm so sorry for you but I think you should take a step back.

I posted on another thread a while back where the op's DH had hit her while he was asleep - yes I did type he...

My Dh did that once, he was dreaming that his niece was falling down the stairs and in the dream he was trying to save her. He also clobbered me in the eye.

He was MORTIFIED. I really mean mortified, it was obvious and clear that he felt terrible.

I'm not trying to compare the experiences but I'm telling you this because that is just to highlight how your d h OUGHT to have been reacting, if he really cares and is really sorry you should completely know that he means it and accepts responsibility and WILL NOT do it again.

You told him (for not the first time) that you don't like him doing that, he reacts by undermining you in front of the children....not good my love.

You should NOT currently be doubting yourself honestly, he should be moving heaven and earth to make you feel secure and loved, if that what he feels.

I didn't need any more convincing after your first post, but you shouldn't either now.

:( so sorry.

So he says he thought you were awake?

That excuse might work the first time but you've told him not to do it, so if i had been in his position i would have made absolutely sure you were awake.

Actually he still put his fingers in you knowing you didn't want him to do that. He admitted that didn't he? He at least knew that that part of it wasn't right. He's admitted to it.

How can he possibly excuse that when you have already told him in the past that you don't want him having sexual activity with your sleeping body.

What's he like op? Intelligent? A bit dim? Is he socially awkward? Im wondering if there is a chance that he has such low intelligence that he just doesn't get it.

If not then he's a scary creepy man!

Have you looked on the computer yet? It might answer some questions.

Hmmm...he thought you were awake? So why is it he isn't in the mood when you are very obviously awake (bedtime, daytime, morning)...it's rather odd that he waits till you are asleep to start this and uses 'I thought you were awake' as an excuse. He's bullshitting you.

bewildered is a great one though!!
Its play acting ignorance. Did he not remember the previous conversation?

If he was truly caring about this then, given that he apologised and promised not to do it before, there would be no WAY that he could have forgotten about it. I can remember even the smallest thing that my DP has said about something I did which upset him, and because I understand how what I did/said made him feel I make sure I dont do it again (and we are talking trivial things like not letting him finish a sentence, not something as violating as you have told him about)

It helps him to start blaming you for stuff, and I am really glad you can see that you are not to blame. If he is able to make you feel like everything is your responsibility, then it moves the goalposts. Also its all about HIS feelings. HE is not supposed to have any feelings??
Yes he bloody is - but the 'normal' feelings he should be having are sorrow and remorse and compassion, not an indignancy that his sexual needs dont come before everything else.

And these digs are very passive aggressive. designed to make you nervous. designed to make you frightened. designed to worry you so much about whether he might leave the poor little woman that you will do anything to put it right. I would hazzard he is looking for an apology from you for upsetting him, then everything will be lovely again. But of course, if you apologise (for your own feelings, for accusing him of doing stuff you dont like and have told him, for not wanting to be penetrated when asleep, and for saying you WILL stop it one way or another) you would be giving him licence to do it whenever he likes.

Im really sorry Pandas, but it looks as if you have reached a point of no return. If he cannot accept that what he did was very very very wrong, and take steps to find out why he feels entitled to do it, and why he is so angry that yo should set reasonable and accepted boundaries, i just dont see how you can move past it with him. I really admire how you have been dealing with it, being brave enough to face up to it, and to be prepared to look at how you can get yourself out of the situation.

Your dc may love him,but they have only seen the nice side. i doubt that they will adore him for long if they have to witness him being cruel to their mother - at the end of the day they will side with you and they will learn healthy respect for themselves and their future relationships if you stand up for what is right.

At least he has made it thoroughly clear what a shitbag it is. No nice, decent man would respond to being called on this behaviour (if he was a nice decent man who had some sort of excuse such as parasomnia or having had a previous discussion with you about types of sexual fantasy along these lines) by being petty and nasty and low-level aggressive.

I'm sorry to say this but I think you need to start making preparations to get rid of him quickly and to get some RL support. Abusive men often become very dangerous at the point where their victims have woken up to the abuse, challenged them on it and appear to be gathering strength.

Allergic, I really am curious as to why you're trying to make excuses for Panda's husband. She told him how she felt, he made excuses and then made sure to get the digs in before going to work. If he "didn't mean to abuse" her then surely he would be hugely apologetic and trying to make her feel better rather than putting her down?

I agree, if there was any doubt that this was a genuine misunderstanding on his part as some people suggested earlier in the thread, his reaction confirms otherwise. If he was a good man who had inadvertently hurt you and made you feel so violated and sick, he would be absolutely mortified with himself, begging you for forgiveness, and doing whatever he could to win back your trust and try to help you feel safe with him again.

He would not be making nasty little digs at you and whining about his own 'feelings' .

I've had no doubt in my mind about it since I read your first post, it sounded an all too familiar story. At least you can see now that he isn't the nice decent person you had convinced yourself he was.

You did really well love. You confronted a bully and stated your expectations.

IMO there was never even a possibility that your husband didn't know what he was doing was rape, so the bewildered expression was entirely manufactured and then quickly replaced by the default of anger and a need to punish.

What concerns him most is that he won't be able to do it again without consequences and that has made him very angry indeed. Be careful Pandas because he will now try to find other ways to exert power over you and punish you. SGB is right that he will up the stakes now.

Having seen your posts today, like other posters I wondered about the role he played to inveigle himself into your life. I wonder did he present as the romantic and caring rescuer to a woman in an unhappy marriage, or when you were still recovering from a difficult break-up with your exH? Did he trade on you being 'grateful' to him for his intervention, knowing that your idiot mother had primed you to believe that you needed a big strong man to 'save you from yourself'?

Reading between the lines in your posts from last night, I think this brute has done a terrible number on you so that your battered self-esteem when he met you, has got worse. Your safest choice now is to get away from him and get some professional help to rebuild you and re-establish healthy expectations.

I'd encourage you to find a way to talk to R Crisis first. Again, this scenario will be sadly familiar to them. I hope you manage today okay, but don't be surprised if the tears come tonight during DD's performance and won't stop. Pack some water and dark glasses and don't hesitate to dash to the loo at the first opportune moment to let more of it out and reassemble. Thinking of you .

No wonder he appeared bewildered. Blow-up dolls don't answer back or have opinions. Anyone would think you were a real human being or something.

Do you think maybe he appeared bewildered because he is genuinely baffled at why you are saying this??

I know you feel awful but maybe he actually did think that you liked it, maybe he actually wasn't trying to hurt you. I know its your body, your choice and you have been through some serious stress with this and that is really awful...But a lot of people don't seem to realise how serious the things they're saying actually are.

No one even seems to be considering this... it's so scary how such a mob of obviously intelligent women have all gone after this man without so much as a second thought. You've totally dehumanised this person as if he were just a stranger sneaking into her house and that isn't the case.

Do you not think that if he had done this with the intent to rape his sleeping wife... his reaction might have been angry or hugely apologetic?? As opposed to bewildered? Bewildered is an odd reaction to have to this is you actually intended to do it. I think it clearly shows that he has no idea his wife was so traumatised by it. I mean, it is a horrible accusasion.

Charbon - IMO there was never even a possibility that your husband didn't know what he was doing was rape, so the bewildered expression was entirely manufactured.

When my husband does this to me, it is not rape, it is merely my husband trying it on! So maybe no, he didn't know that you all consider this rape.

And maybe he was really and truly bewildered?

Bollocks. Utter bollocks .

He did not think you were awake. If he did wouldn't he have tried to kiss you?

He did not think you liked it. If he did he would be genuinely apologetic.

He does not get what he has done. If he did he wouldn't be being an arse right now.

You have to ignore how your kids feel about him. You do not have to put up with this shit just so they have a dad in the house full time.

I am so bloody mad and angry on your behalf.

What a twat.

Curiousgeorge.

How many times does pandas need to say that she has told him previously she DOES NOT like it?

She has clearly given him the opposite of consent to this in the past.

People do realise how serious this is, you clearly dont and you are quite obviously not bothering to read anything she is posting, I hope Pandas is paying you the same mind.

Liza - I've read everything. Maybe you should read everything back. This thread went out of control very quickly.

Curious, I think you would have a point if the OP's husband had said "Oh god, I didn't realise, I'm so sorry" etc. Instead, he didn't apologise, made excuses and then made sly digs at Pandas before he left for work, leaving her feeling nervous and upset.

Anyone can do something stupid that they regret. I don't think every mistake a person makes in a relationship should be jumped on and treated as the end of the world. However Panda's husband did this before, more than once and Panda told him not to do it. He is a normal, intelligent man who understands English. He made a choice to ignore her wishes and to rape her. Why on earth are some posters trying to make out that this isn't such a bad thing? Why are you trying to defend the husband when it is so blatantly clear that Pandas has been devastated by this? Are you suggesting, Curious, that she should just carry on living with an unapologetic rapist? Forget how she feels, just accept that he's not sorry and live with the possibility that he might rape her again??

Curious I think you might be projecting your own experiences onto this situation. Have you woken up in the past to find your DH inside you, just finishing off, without any input from you? Because that's what happened to the OP and that is rape

curious in that case he should be shocked with himself and be very very remorseful and ashamed.

You might not mind your dh sticking fingers inside of you whilst you are asleep, but I would, it is NOT the same as trying on.

Panda, thinking of you.

Oh, curious is back again talking about her experiences with her husband, rather than listening to what the OP has actually said.

D'you know what, curious? My husband has tried it on with me in bed when I am asleep, too. However, he wouldnt dream of proceeding with sexual activity if I didn't actually wake up and consent, nor would he persist if I had previously told him not to do it because I didnt like it and didnt want it. Why? Because that would be rape.

Maybe they would the first time he did it but he has carried on doing it so no, no benefit of the doubt.

You're scary, curious.

The extent you will go to defend something that the OP said in her very first post made her feel violated and angry and upset is very scary indeed.

I seriously dont understand why you are even here, offering your 'balanced view' curious?

Read the OP's posts, everyone of them.

She is distressed and confused and hurt. She needs validation and support, not some tit telling her that because she and her mates enjoy being penetrated in their sleep it is really just fine, no matter how bad it makes her feel.

Seriously. Go and have your rape apology party somewhere else.