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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Sensitive question about H

709 replies

ThreeLittlePandas · 14/03/2012 11:52

I've been putting off asking this because I'm scared of what your answers might be. I'm really evaluating my relationship with h atm and wondering wether to leave him and I think the answer to my question might heavily influence my decision.

Blush in advance.

Dh and I rarely have sex. When we do it is rather boring but he is considerate.

The other evening I went to bed early as I was desperately tired. I was woken a few hours later my dh who had his fingers in me. I was heavily asleep and by the time I realised what was happening he was having sex with me. He finished quickly and that was it. I really hadn't wanted to have sex and feel like I wasn't given an option. The next day I felt a bit angry and almost violated to be honest.

I'm not looking for anything other than an opportunity to talk this through because it's been bothering me. This is about the third time in the last couple of years that something like this has happened.

OP posts:
HereIGo · 14/03/2012 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NettleTea · 14/03/2012 21:31

good luck. I expect he willtry to minimise it and to minimise your feelings. He can use what excuses he likes, but at the end of the day it is not as if it is the first time he has done it, so he cannot claim ignorance of the fact that you have told him QUITE CLEARLY that you do not want him to do that.

That, in itself, tells you all you need to know. And the way you are feeling is real. Whether he meant to, whether he says he was being nice/affectionate, whether he tries to turn it that you should have stopped him or said no at the actual time (ignoring that you were barely concious) he HAS Hurt you, and your feelings about that are real, and are not about HIS feelings or wants.

I just do not get why so many people do not seem to understand how it isnt what it is. how, when someone has told their OH that they do NOT want him to try to, or actually have sex with them when they are asleep, that there can be any ambiguity. It is so far removed from 'sleepy sex' where the man is quite obviously trying to erotically wake his partner so that they can both partake in consensual sex.

What can they not see about needing consent??

I hope you are OK. And I agree with those who say the narc mum is certainly not someone to go to with this, I can see why you say she would be disappointed. She has damaged you with her 'mothering' but you are a strong and fab lady, and now you are seeing the light you will be able to get through all this and built a better place for you and your kids.

balia · 14/03/2012 21:35

Pandas - hope you are OK.

Have read the whole thread feeling utterly sick. My ex used to do this to me.

Divorce WILL NOT ruin your children's lives (did your wonderful mother tell you that, by any chance?) Having a happy Mum with a normal experience of men will actually improve their lives enormously.

Sorry I haven't said much. Have typed loads and erased it. It is still hard to think about but at least I know I will never ever have to deal with it again.

He will try to minimise this and blame you. Don't listen. Even if he seems very apologetic and 'gosh it is all a misunderstanding' he will still be blaming you.

And thank God for AF and all the other posters like her.

fabwoman · 14/03/2012 21:40

Good luck with your chat. Will you be safe?

Bongobaby · 14/03/2012 21:46

nettle I agree with all you say.pandas may feel like that she doesn,t want the labels that go with what has been happening to her. she is a strong lady that has had her self esteem taken from her so will not want to tell anyone in rl this is going on. I imagine that her first port of call would of been her mother but that is a lost cause seeing as how shit her mother has treated her in the past. The two words of rape and victim is a huge shock to the system to take in especially as it is from the person you are married to and trust and have dc with.
I don,t see a come back from this for pandas, The line has been crossed and she needs to get away for some head space and value the good person that she is without being any further violated or erroded by this awful behaviour towards her. A sorry from him just does not cut it to the next time he may want to do it again to her.It,s a pacifing behaviour for the moment from him which is obvious because this is now the third of it happening.

Pozzled · 14/03/2012 21:59

Thinking of you, OP, while you have the talk with him.

If he tries to minimize it, or dismiss your feelings, re-read your posts on here and stay strong. It IS a big deal, it IS a betrayal of trust, he KNEW you didn't want it and he did it anyway.

You deserve better- you deserve to be respected.

PooPooInMyToes · 14/03/2012 22:33

I would try and see what he's been looking at on the computer.

Hope you're ok.

Original poster
ThreeLittlePandas · 15/03/2012 06:55

Well I tried but basically got nowhere. He was really stunned by what I was saying. He was adamant that he thought I was awake when he had sex with me. He did admit that I was asleep when he first used his fingers but said he was just trying to turn me on. he basically said he thought I liked it.

He has me really doubting myself. I did manage to say that if he ever did anything like that again I would report him to the police.

OP posts:
HereIGo · 15/03/2012 07:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CailinDana · 15/03/2012 07:11

I'm sorry it didn't go well, but to be honest it was exactly what I was expecting. Did he apologise at all?

AnyFucker · 15/03/2012 07:23

No big surprises there, pandas, but you had to try didn't you ?

He has excused himself by minimising your right to not have him insert his fingers into you when you are asleep, then carry on penetrating you when you haven't consented

Of course you are doubting yourself, he makes it sound so reasonable doesn't he ? But you know and we know that it isn't. It really isn't.

Original poster
ThreeLittlePandas · 15/03/2012 07:42

He is being absolutely vile. He just left for work and there were lots of subtle, underhand digs before he went. In front of the dc too so I couldn't pull him up on it. That's not like him at all. He is usually really nice in the way he speaks to me. I feel so on edge, my stomach is churning.

OP posts:
CailinDana · 15/03/2012 07:59

What sort of digs Pandas?

PooPooInMyToes · 15/03/2012 08:11

Did his face show guilt?

NettleTea · 15/03/2012 08:25

Thats because he knows he has been rumbled, its his own guilt playing out. And he knows you are a decent human being who doesnt want that kind of scene in front of the kids.
but keep in mind HE doesnt seem to care about saying what he wants in front of the kids - possibly showing his true colours now, and NOT such a 'great dad' if he would try to make you and them uncomfortable to alieviate his guilt.

His minimising is to be expected. And its not good enough to say he THOUGHT you were awake, or that he had already started touching you intimately. His protestations that he thought you liked it are complete BS as you had clearly stated that you didnt and he was not to do it, so why would you have changed your mind while asleep when you were perfectly coherant when awake.
I am sorry to say that I think he possibly has done this alot when you didnt wake up (I think you might have inferred this earlier)
I have a horrible feeling that because you didnt accept his apology, and you threatened him with reporting you have taken the control out of his hands and he doesnt like it. The digs will continue and he may now stop being the perfect husband while you are awake to punish you for removing his opportunity to do this. I have a horrible suspicion that this IS his sex life, which is why you dont have one together. Have you asked him why the two of you dont have much of a sex life which is consentual?
I am really worried for you Panda. I think things are going to get nasty. It seems that a line has been crossed with you now though, and you dont feel the same - you use words like vile.
He is speaking to you nastily to upset you and pull the security rug out from under your feet. He wants to crush out that spark of strength that you have shown so that you roll over and become compliant again. He is showing you who's boss. he is trying to destroy your self esteem. you mustnt disrupt the status quo,you mustnt put your needs or feelings before his. And 'digging' in front of the kids show that he comes before them too.
And finally, just ask - what has HE got to be making nasty digs about - if he was really sorry he should be showing you kindness and apologising, not being nasty. To me that just PROVES he knows that it is wrong, he had hoped to just brush it under the carpet and carry on, and he is FURIOUS that you have put a stop to it.

I would seriously advise you to get some advice - knowledge is power, and it will help you to know where you stand. I would also get a copy of 2 books - Why does He Do that, by lundy Bancroft - (should be essential reading for any girl heading out into the dating world IMO) and Toxic parents.

Huge hugs - you have taken a brave step in confronting this and laying down a firm boundary. I suspect its the first step on a rocky road, but we will be here to help you along the way to the life you and your children deserve.

butterfingerz · 15/03/2012 08:29

The digs are probably because you've rumbled him.

And you don't have to justify your feelings to anyone. Your reaction was totally normal but don't you think it's time you called it day before you suffer actual psychological harm? Because you will if it carries on. At the moment I would think its him that needs professional help (he has issues with relating sex with intimacy) but you need to get out before you need help too.

How long has this been going on for? Are we talking years? Have you ever had a 'normal' sex life?

Pozzled · 15/03/2012 08:55

Look at it this way- you were starting to doubt yourself, but the digs and vile behavior should remove any trace of doubt. IF he REALLY cared about you and genuinely 'thought you liked it' (which makes me feel slightly sick given the previous conversations you have had). IF it was somehow a misunderstanding, he'd have been horrified to hear how you felt, and he'd be trying to do everything in his power to show you how sorry he was.

If he was really the good Dad you described near the start of this thread, he wouldn't be cruel to their mum in front of them.

CailinDana · 15/03/2012 08:58

I agree with Pozzled. It's awful that he's being so vile to you, but at the same time it's less headwrecking because you don't have the situation where he's being super nice and you start doubting yourself and thinking he's not so bad after all. He's showing what he's really like. He wants to rape you, and is very very annoyed that you've stopped it. He's not in the least bit concerned about how you feel and would rather put you down in front of your children than try to make you feel better.

jackandthebeansprout · 15/03/2012 09:04

I'm completely agreeing with the others about his behaviour this morning. After telling him how he has made you feel, even if he really hadn't realised his actions were wrong (which I don't buy), he should now be feeling sincerely sorry and ashamed and concerned. I think it is awful that he is subtly digging at you, I think subtle digs can be the cruellest way of making someone feel uncomfortable and nervous.

PooPooInMyToes · 15/03/2012 09:25

How many dc do you have and what ages?

I assume he's their dad? How long have you been together?

Original poster
ThreeLittlePandas · 15/03/2012 09:26

I do feel really nervous! That's exactly how I feel.

Digs have been about trivial things. He was pussed off because dd wanted him to carry her downstairs when he was trying to get ready for work. Seems that was my fault.
He was saying about him not being allowed to have any feelings.
Sounds a bit silly written down but he was unnerving me.

I can't do anything yet about him being here. Im going to start looking into things though. I need to find out about money etc.

I will be back later to post more. I have loads of stuff going round my head but have a hugely busy day. At school later this morning then out this evening to watch a show dd1 is in. So please don't worry if I'm not round much today.

I'm going to order that book on Amazon in a minute.

OP posts:
Original poster
ThreeLittlePandas · 15/03/2012 09:29

I have two high school age dh from my first marriage.

Dc3 is a toddler and he is her father.

My first husband is rarely around and all the dc look to dh as their dad. They adore him, especially my ds.

We've been together 7 years. Married 2 1/2.

OP posts:
Original poster
ThreeLittlePandas · 15/03/2012 09:30

Two high school age dc!!

OP posts:
Original poster
ThreeLittlePandas · 15/03/2012 09:32

His faced showed no guilt, just bewilderment.

Sorry this is so disjointed.

OP posts:
PullUpAPew · 15/03/2012 09:36

Hi Pandas, what a huge amount you have thought/processed and done in less than 24 hours, I can only imagine how much more you have to think about from this point forwards. I think you are really brave to deal with all this and yet still be able to be there for your kids.

I guess he has changed because his world has changed, because you have changed. He probably will not be the same as before because the whole relationship has shifted, once you realised you coudn't/shouldn't put up with what he was doing.

I will think about you today and I am wishing you strength and courage x