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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Sensitive question about H

709 replies

ThreeLittlePandas · 14/03/2012 11:52

I've been putting off asking this because I'm scared of what your answers might be. I'm really evaluating my relationship with h atm and wondering wether to leave him and I think the answer to my question might heavily influence my decision.

Blush in advance.

Dh and I rarely have sex. When we do it is rather boring but he is considerate.

The other evening I went to bed early as I was desperately tired. I was woken a few hours later my dh who had his fingers in me. I was heavily asleep and by the time I realised what was happening he was having sex with me. He finished quickly and that was it. I really hadn't wanted to have sex and feel like I wasn't given an option. The next day I felt a bit angry and almost violated to be honest.

I'm not looking for anything other than an opportunity to talk this through because it's been bothering me. This is about the third time in the last couple of years that something like this has happened.

OP posts:
AllergicToNutters · 14/03/2012 17:34

i havent read all the posts OP but have you asked him to stop once you are awake? Also, you need to tell him in no uncertain terms that you are not going to accept this violation. Sorry if I am repeating waht others have said, I'm just skimming the posts

NarkedPuffin · 14/03/2012 17:39

So if I'm sleeping, and my husband starts to have sex with me, its rape? Clear cut rape?

IMO, yes. Legally he could argue 'assumed consent'. If you'd previously told him not to then his defence would go out of the window.

Because I think a massive part of defining rape is in the intent, and if you're in a loving, trusting relationship, it's not a violation, its nothing more than an annoyance that wakes you up

Nope. A man putting his penis inside a sleeping woman is not 'loving'. A sleeping woman can't consent. It is rape.

As for 'an annoyance', that's what lies behind low conviction rates Sad. Do you not think women have the right to at least be conscious to give/refuse consent? Do you think a relationship = free rights to your vagina?

CailinDana · 14/03/2012 17:41

Allergic, stating such a big thing like you don't think she was raped without actually reading the thread isn't really very considerate. Perhaps if you read the posts you will see why what you've said is poorly thought out.

Original poster
ThreeLittlePandas · 14/03/2012 17:45

Sorry I disappeared for a bit. I had to collect dc, do homework etc.

I've not stopped thinking about this all afternoon. I feel a bit numb at the moment, actually I don't think there are any words to discribe how I feel. I know for sure I'm definitely going to have it out with H tonight. I'll have to wait until late when the dc are all asleep.

Af, the question you wanted to ask earlier, the answer is yes. His porn use has caused huge problems for us in the past although apparently he doesnt look at it anymore.

I'm probably being paranoid but there have been a few comments that are so true I think the poster must know who I am. Please please keep it to yourself if you do know. I'm terrified of being outed.

I don't know how the hell I'm going to do this. If we do divorce I'm very lucky that our home is rented in my name only so he would be the one who had to go. It's all the other stuff that scares me. I'll have no money and have to apply for benefits. My parents will be so devestated, they really love him. Everyone thinks he is wonderful. How do I even begin to tell anyone what he has done? Plus his parents are elderly and his mother is currently ill in hospital.

And my biggest fear, what about my children? They adore him. It will destroy their world.

Really really tired. I'm going to sleep in dd's room tonight. She has a cold so her sleep is really disturbed so it's probably easier to sleep in there anyway. I really need some time away from H.

I'm sorry I'm rambling. My thoughts are very jumbled

OP posts:
WhyAlwaysBoris · 14/03/2012 17:57

OP, I'm so sorry you are having to cope with this at the moment.
Don't have any words of wisdom i'm afraid but just wanted to tell you that from your responses you are clearly a very brave and dignified woman.

NarkedPuffin · 14/03/2012 18:00

A) It's understandable that you're worried about privacy. I don't think you've been outed at all, it's just that there are more than a few women who have had similar experiences.

B)You've sorted out somewhere else to sleep which is great. You can call some of the advice numbers people have given in the next few days. You don't have to rush into decisions. You have time to work out how you feel.

foolonthehill · 14/03/2012 18:07

YES he is.

she had told him no when he had done this before...even if you could argue that it wasn't rape the first time ( which I wouldn't It is in my opinion and the opinion of the law) it cannot be in any doubt that it is the second, third and any subsequent time.

so why are we still getting the "it's ok because they are married thing"???

Its not OK to wake up and find someone/thing in your vagina that you don't want.

AllOverIt · 14/03/2012 18:07

Oh Panda. Sorry you're going through this. No words of wisdom, other than what he is doing is not okay. I think you need to somehow convey just how serious what he's doing to you is. Use the word rape. Show him this thread if he still won't acknowledge it. Then threaten that you will leave him, phone the police and get advice, whatever that will scare the shit out of him enough that he won't do it again..

Good luck x

foolonthehill · 14/03/2012 18:09

my post so out of context...you gals move on fast!!!!

Pandas: thinking of leaving is scary...but you can make good decisions for yourself and for your DCs. There will be mountains of support for you (both virtual and real) . Stay strong OP.

CailinDana · 14/03/2012 18:17

Your thoughts are bound to be jumbled, you have a lot to deal with. Give yourself a chance to breathe, don't feel under pressure to make decisions right away. Your thoughts will start to clear, just give it time.

Original poster
ThreeLittlePandas · 14/03/2012 18:26

I can't use that word. It sounds so wrong and I feel like a fraud using it. Yet I do feel so violated. But I feel disgusted too. I feel disgusted with myself because I thought I was a strong woman but look at me. Why did I think it would ever be any different.

OP posts:
PooPooInMyToes · 14/03/2012 18:29

Why did you ever think it would be any different? . . . What do you mean by that?

phi40 · 14/03/2012 18:31

I haven't read all 10 pages so excuse me if this has already been said .. i think before rushing into final solutions you should have sex counselling somewhere like Relate. Rape is about power and aggression and if DH is not manifesting this anywhere else in the relationship, then there is a good chance you can work this out together with the aid of an experienced non-judgemental counsellor.

mindofgreyfluff · 14/03/2012 18:32

Pandas This does not mean you are not a strong woman! You have been strong enough to admit that something is not quite right, and you will be strong enough to do what you think is best for you and your children.

PullUpAPew · 14/03/2012 18:36

Oh for flip's sake phi40, are you seriously saying that because someone doesn't get to make decisions about the new carpet or how the money is spent they can RAPE someone?

I would say that rape is something that can absolutely never be sorted out through couples counselling. Because it is rape, and there is no justification for it EVER. It can only ever be swept under the carpet really IMO.

CailinDana · 14/03/2012 18:39

It's ok if you can't use the word Pandas, you don't ever have to use it. I was raped, and I can type it here but I just can't say it out loud. I have never said it out loud and I'm not sure I ever will.

Feeling disgusted with yourself is also normal, unfortunately. Over time, if you talk about it and get your head around it that feeling will fade.

PullUpAPew · 14/03/2012 18:41

Actually am not sure that is what phi40 is saying. Are you actually saying because the rape is the only area where aggression is shown then it might be ok? That makes no sense either - rape is a violation of a person, not a communication issue or a marital dispute than can be solved by talking it through.

AllergicToNutters · 14/03/2012 18:43

callinDana- I have not read all the posts (yet) which is wrong as I cannot make a fair judgement. But something like this happened to me. My dh genuinely thought it was his 'right'. I used to feel violated and angry. but he was also aggressive - never violent as such, but angry if I dared refuse. He would wake me at maybe 3am sometimes wrenching the pillow out from under my head. He would get very angry and frustrated. He was full of remorse the next day, He also had other issues. He was often angry and abusive. The OP's posts (that I have read) don't indicate this kind of behaviour. My dh used to see my refusal as rejection. He was often angry in the day too. I am not saying the op's dh's behaviour is excusable but I think she sound slike she is having trouble reconciling the word 'rape' with a man who is otherwise a good husband, father, provider. I am not underplaying wht is happening to her but I think there has abeen a kneejerk reaction. But then that is only my opinion so she can feel free to dismiss it. I won't mind

CailinDana · 14/03/2012 18:50

I'm really sorry that happened to you Allergic. I don't think it's worthwhile nitpicking over the circumstances to be honest as there is no point in trying to justify or excuse what the OP's husband did. It was rape. The OP is having a hard time with the word "rape" and that's normal, but pointing out that her husband isn't aggressive etc will only confuse her more as it will make her feel like she doesn't have a right to feel violated and disgusted because her husband doesn't fit the typical profile of an abusive husband. Even if her husband had won the Nobel Peace Prize and was known to nurse injured insects back to health, if he did this it would still be rape.

oikopolis · 14/03/2012 18:50

AtN, if you are going on the legal definition of rape and sexual assault in the UK, then you were raped, and the OP was sexually assaulted.

if you have your own secret way of defining those two terms then you will likely have another opinion, but if you're talking about what the law says, then you are wrong in saying the OP's husband is "just taking advantage of her"

the presence of overt violence isn't what makes it rape.
the absence of consent is what makes it rape.

oikopolis · 14/03/2012 18:51

and the reason i say the OP was sexually assaulted and not raped, is because in the UK, rape = use of penis.

in several other countries, what happened to her would have been classified as rape.

CurrySpice · 14/03/2012 19:02

Oh my goodness OP you poor woman. What an utterly vile thing to have to go through

I don't want to get involved in the ruckus here, just wanted to offer you my heartfelt sympathy and to say you have every right to feel as you do. Don't deny yourself that

Take care of yourself xx

NormaStanleyFletcher · 14/03/2012 19:04

Oil - it was rape. He was having sex with her before she fully woke up (stated in op)

oikopolis · 14/03/2012 19:06

^ God yes you're right, i was remembering a scenario that another poster had asked about, instead of what was actually in the OP.

Sorry OP, i didn't mean to minimize anything in my post above, honest mistake on my part. In that case is WAS rape under the Eng/Wales legal definition.

CailinDana · 14/03/2012 19:07

Oik it was rape.