just told dh he can have ds when he is born

[Loonybun]

Well everything is a mess. Got married a week ago. 25 wks pregnant with our ifirst baby, I have a dd aged 9. I had a traumatic birth with dd and bad pnd and I am not coping with this pregnancy and the feelings I'm having at all - we both wanted this baby, we were on the ivf list but conceived naturally.

Today dh is upset as I have been so withdrawn, he says he doesn't know why I married him as its clear to him I don't want to share anything. I've talked to him about how I feel but he gets angry as he is upset. I've ended up telling him that when ds is born he can have him as I probably won't feel any bond at all (as I didn't with dd, took years). He burst into tears and I left him to go shopping. Now I feel awful but I still feel dead inside.

Hello Loonybun, good to see you back. You know, the more you talk about it, the more I wonder if it isn't partly/mainly financial worries that have triggered some of your feelings. Seems like your pregnancy, childbirth, and looking after your DD when she was a baby the first time round was very different and in some ways, happened in a manner and routine that you were comfortable with, but this time it is different and you are feeling the pressure of wondering whether you'll be able to pull through. If you found it much easier with your mum around, would you be able to have a chat with her about how much you would appreciate her help and whether she would still be able to come round for support? Especially now that you would have two children rather just one to look after.

It seems to me that you do think and analyse very carefully what you do, what people might think of you and whether you are making them happy. Many mums would say, I've done painting and I've taken DD to the park, gosh, haven't I been virtuous,....whereas you analyse further and wonder whether you are doing enough and bonding with her enough. I'm sure she appreciates that while pregnant you can't run or be more active - children have a way of knowing these things. Perhaps if you feel you might not have the energy to treat her to outings or do activities with her (a common concern during the second pregnancy) you could ask your mum to come round and do an activity with her like baking, accompanying you all to the park, making bead jewellery, etc etc.

To be honest when you're pregnant, most people don't look at you and think that you don't look like your previous thin and glamorous self - mentally that would be a rather odd combination. In fact, I think many of us culturally feel that it looks weird to see some women (thinking of some "celebs" but won't name names) who try to stay thin when pregnant and are smug that they "hardly show" - mentally I would be tempted to wonder if they are starving their babies to feed their own vanity. I'm sure your ex's friend just thinks, gosh, she's having another baby, some other dude must be the lucky guy. I don't think for a moment that he thinks beached whale. He might wonder how your ex might feel about the baby on the way, but that's probably about it.

PS No, it doesn't matter whether you have those fluffy, sunny, happy feelings about bonding with your baby and getting all gooey-eyed about shopping for baby's things. I remember as a child that whenever a baby was on the way, none of my relatives or my friends' parents got gooey eyed or sentimental about stuff like bonding. I remember their main preoccupations were that they stayed healthy and ate healthily so that baby would have a healthy start, that they saved what they could to be able to provide, and that they prepared themselves for waking up at nights and knowing what to do when baby was ill. And many years later, they are great parents still, get on really well with their kids and are a thriving family unit. Conversely, some who obsessed about things like bonding and how glowing they felt have been become quite disillusioned that the mushy happy feelings are shortlived and that a lot of parenthood is about meeting baby's needs and being there for them in terms of practical needs and emotional support.
I do agree that for many people life is a "job" - for a lot of people it is an extremely tough job indeed. Sometimes I have felt that the times when life felt like a "job" actually turned out to be the happiest when I looked upon them with hindsight.

Loony somehow your thread fell off my active list. was just thinking about you and now someone bumped your thread enough for me to see it!

all this baby gumf people go on about... please don't forget it's all socially-accepted stuff, like the weather. it's What Mums Talk About. none of it is a reflection of actual feelings iyswim.

i don't give a tiny little shit about nurseries or baby clothes or Gina Ford or playgroups or feeding or ANYTHING. but i will talk about that crap with other women i don't know well, because it's generally thought to be a "safe" area of conversation.

but all those "safe" parts aren't nearly as safe as they seem. you know, i had a truly horrific pregnancy loss many years ago, at the hands of a v brutal doctor. and that baby was very much my first child, in my mind. do you know how painful it is when people ask me "is this your first?" (i am currently pg). i want to scream and run away when people ask that. i can't bear it when i have to refer to this pregnancy as "my first" or the baby as "my first baby" because he/she IS NOT my first.

but it's not "safe" to talk about my loss. it's too horrific, to messy, to upsetting for myself and for others. i don't want the questions, i don't want the exhausting tears, i don't want to see the shocked looks or to apologise for how my story makes others feel. so i Shut The Fuck Up about it, for the good of all, especially myself.

but if you met me in the street, and we talked about baby crap, you would never guess how i felt. you would feel "weird" compared to me. i would probably feel the same compared to you...!

we all protect ourselves by carefully selecting what we reveal and what we don't. don't allow the natural self-censorship of ALL people to make you feel like you're not normal.

PND in particular is so common as to be approaching "normal" (i.e., a normative experience that many many people have) in any case... just because people don't talk about it doesn't mean it's not there.

and about your "hippo" internal monologue... totally agree with that little analysis put forward by an earlier poster... this is all just negative self-talk. it's not a reflection of reality.

Haven't posted on this for ages as was starting to feel a bit better but this last week or so its all coming crashing down again ..I can't remember if I wrote that I've been granted my elective c section... Consultant wasn't happy but grudgingly booked me in for mid june. So I had a couple of weeks of feeling fairly positive about that.

Now everything is more difficult... I'm struggling with this last bit, 36 weeks and everything hurts. My back hurts, my pelvis hurts. I'm getting loads of braxtons. I can't even turn over in bed without the weight of the baby hurting me. I can't sleep during the night without getting up for a wee. I'm finding I'm getting more and more angry about it all - rather than emotional or accepting as most pregnant women seem to. When I talk to people about it they keep saying "oh this last bit is the worst but you haven't got long"! And that makes me feel even more fed up. When the baby is here I'm going to get even less sleep.

Plus I've realised (now that I'm on mat leave) how much I just hate being at home.we have very little spending money which means that I am effectively confined to the sofa /tv and I can't stand it. I can't go walking far anyway because my whale like self and pelvis hurt anyway. I have been doing some gardening and decorating but it leaves me exhausted and in agony. I donot want to go to the local shops or parks as per my earlier reasons. And have no petrol to drive anywhere (no money for petrol).

Dh and I were getting on really well but I'm just starting to get into a hole again and he's feeling lonely and fed up. When I get like this I feel really selfish, I know its selfish.I just can't help it. I have a rare day with dd today and I'm actually dreading it as I don't want to be around anyone else. I like being on my own and I feel stressed and claustrophobic being around my family. And then I feel really angry that when the baby is here I will never beon my own. What have I done??

I'm fed up with the whole thing. Trying to make sure everyone has everything they need for school / work, shopping, meal planning that is never anything I want to eat as we are on such a tight budget... Dh would do it but I feel I can't let anyone else do it as they wouldn't do it properly and I'd just be annoyed.
And then I have this horrid realisation that once I've had the c section dh will have to do a lot of it anyway and that scares the fuck out of me. I don't want to feel helpless.

I know I'm depressed. But its not like I can dig myself out right now. Feeling like life is shit and will be for the foreseeable future.

Only 3 more weeks of your pregnancy to go and your elective section will be a dream compared to a bad natural birth. It depends on each individual, but after my first section I was running up and down the stairs within 7 days (after hideous pregnancy, spd and emergency section). Some advice I would give you is to get on the iron tablets straight away after your section, as you will still lose some blood. Some people just hate being pregnant (me included) and everything post-birth is better.

Also, and maybe this is very naughty of me, I chose to bottle feed both of mine. THis was a big help for me as it was important to get my body back to feeling ok after 9 months of daily vomiting with both and terrible spd. It also meant that DH could do all the night feeds right from the start and I got lots of much needed sleep (essential for my mental health). It was definitely the right choice for me and my family. If you still feel depressed post birth (or wildly elated which could lead to a big crash), go and see the doctor asap.

Sorry I don't have time to read the whole thread (have to go get ds) but I just wanted to say I felt like you when pregnant, never told anyone, didn't bond with ds. But I gave the counselling a go and honestly now I feel better than I have ever done (although obviously I could do with some bloody sleep).

My life is over, hopeless, resentfull all that was me. You do have to give yourself to it (counselling). I could take my baby to my appointments or there is counselling you can do over the phone - ask gp. Good luck, it won't be easy but you've got through it once. Take care and don't blame yourself, it happens to a lot of people.

Be careful about the bottle feeding! I'm not saying it is wrong advice but breastfeeding releases oxytocin (orgasm hormones) and there is research to suggest that formula feeding tricks the body and therefore the hormones into believing the baby has died. I think you need to consider the hormonal effects as well as everything else.

I'm not convinced elcs is the best solution on it's own either. You also desperately need to work through your feelings about your last birth experience. Whatever happens with how this baby is born.

Thank you, I appreciate the sympathetic replies... I feel like a horrible person, I don't feel like I deserve people being nice to me.. That sounds very self pitying but I just mean people out there want a baby so much and here I am 4 weeks away (or 3ish) and thinking the world has ended.. Feel quite ashamed of myself really.

I hope you are right about the c section. I have no doubt that I've made the right choice by opting for one but I reaally hope I'm not incapacitated afterwrds for too long, I worry that will trigger my pnd again.

I'm so worried I'm going to get pnd again like before. I already feel like this now so to me that's not a good sign. But some do say once you've had the baby your hormones go back to normal if you have ante natal depression.. Who knows.

Thanks for the advice re the bottle / breast feeding. I appreciate what you're saying about the hormones from breast feeding but I absolutely hated breastfeeding dd for the 6 weeks I did and I will be bottle feeding again for all the reasons mentioned in the previous posters post. For me breastfeeding is just another extension of my body being invaded and being chained down / trapped to the baby.

Plus dh and others can do lots of the feeding.

I think the only way I'm going to cope with this is to get through the next few months in a blur of strong anti depressants and then put ds in nursery at 3 months and go back to work. That's what I did with dd.

Just dreading all of it to be honest. :(

What you are describing is perfectly normal feelings for someone experiencing an episode of depression.

The causes are key. It sounds like the birth experience was the trigger.

Your new baby is imminent and I think as regards birth and feeding choices there is no clear "right choice". Sometimes what is needed is to just make A choice. It sounds like this is what you have done, which is good.

However what concerns me is that your plans seem to be exclusively motivated by avoiding dealing with your feelings and your previous birth trauma and I think it is absolutely crucial for yourself and your family that you do. I think you have maybe suppressed the feelings for a long time and they have now manifested in an uncontrollable depressive way because of your pregnancy. I don't think things will improve much without picking apart the causes.

What you need to decide next is whether you are ready and able to begin working through that previous experience. Is it the right time? Or, is it necessary for you to just get your head down and do whatever gets you through this baby's birth?

Loony, don't know how I've missed this thread. I was feeling very similar to you when pg with ds. Tge difference is it was a complete shock as I had no problems with or after dd. there was something big that happened just before I got pg, as well as a mc, but my pg was so totally different in every way and for every second.

He is 9 months now and tbh I have cried today over guilt of how I felt. Was triggered by eastenders of all things, someone had gone for a 4d scan, dh and my my kept nagging e to get ie booked with ds. It was ie of my proudest moments with dd. but no I couldn't, just kept putting them off till it was too late.

I hope it goes well for you. Keep sharing. I wish I had felt strong enough to post here about how I felt.

Thanks. Its good to hear others have felt similar.. And lived to tell the tale.

This thread is the only place I can really let it all out.

I've had birth trauma counselling, normal counselling and everything else for my previous bad experience. I don't think there's anything more that can be done about it. I can't change what happened but to be honest its more the feelings of being responsible for a baby than the birth experience that is bugging me right now.

I am dreading dh coming home from work today. He's at home all day tomorrow and I'm feeling :( just thinkiing about it. That's so fucked up. I'm supposed to be happy aren't I? We're supposed to be spending time with dd doing an activity she wants to do but I don't want to do that. I don't want to be around either of them. I just want to be on my own, doing what I want eating what I want and not talking to anyone.

I did some gardening with dd today and then she watched a dvd. I find myself getting more and more irritated when she tries to talk to me. I don't want to talk to anyone. I just want everyone to go away. But of course I try and make the effort. With dh its harder because he gets upset and annoyed (because he's hurt) if I don't interact with him. The last few nights he's been watching some shitty series on dvd that I can't bloody stand and I'm just fed up having to share my space with anyone right now. He keeps asking what I want to watch / do and the truth is I don't want to do anything. I have absolutely no interest in anything on tv. When I used to be single I used to forum / facebook / music a lot and I can't do that with dh being there - he's always asking what I'm doing (not being controlling, just nosey). I hate it.

I'm currently waiting for dd to come out of the shower and then I'll get on with dinner and have another shit evening and tomorrow will be just more of the same. Until monday when everyone is back at work and school and I can be by myself again, relaxing on my own.

Seriously feel like this thread has gone full circle and I am back where I began.

I should never have gone down this road. Never. Its fucked everything up.

So I guess tge question is, why did you?

Hmm... It is hard to reconcile the "oh I've worked through all of that" with the "I'm going to deal with it by having elcs/bottle feeding because I can't handle being taken over by the baby" I just don't believe that you have worked through it. Maybe when you had the counselling you weren't ready? Maybe the pregnancy had triggered old feelings that you need to look at again? If you have truly worked through the feelings then what had happened to trigger it now?

I must stress you don't need to answer any of these things before you are ready. What is paramount is getting you through this tough time, you can do this by propping yourself up or by confronting things head on but only you can decide what you are ready for and you absolutely must not beat yourself up or push yourself. You can only do what you can do.

Hi sorry you r going thru this right now. If you are still feeling bad i would suggest trying a different drug. Steraline is ok to take when pg.

I really wish you feel better when the baby is here. Good luck xx

With respect, ONMFanjo, I don't think that's a useful question at all.

OP, you have said "I should never have done this" and "there's no light at the end of the tunnel." But this is not forever; it will end and things will get back to normal. You love your dd; and you have put yourself through this pg because you want to mother another child. Once that baby starts showing signs of being an individual, having a personality, things will brighten and you will start to enjoy family life again. It's a long road yet (though who's to say it will be the same this time; maybe things will improve more quickly), but it is not forever.

Is it possible for dh to stay at home with the baby for a few months while you return to work?

Thanks. The reasons for wanting another child were not for me. That's why it feels like it was the wrong decision. I wanted dd to have a sibling, mainly so that she never feels soley responsible for me in the way I feel for my mum. I was aware that dh was younger than me and would want a child. And I got caught up in the flush of love in a new relationship where you think wouldn't it be nice to have a child together - all that crap that actually counts for nothing in the cold reality of looking after a child. I also felt I was getting older and having a baby is in some way a sign of youth and fertility. Stupid. Stupid reasons. None of them powered by maternal instincts.

I hope that I can keep sane enough to get through this.

Dh is the main breadwinner. He's already taking 3 weeks off but that's all we can manage. Otherwise we won't afford the mortgage.

Tonight dh and I have sat in silence at opposite ends of the sofa and now I am hiding in the toilet writing this before I go to bed.

I appreciate what you are saying about not feeling like I've dealt with the birth etc but my not liking breastfeeding or babies is very little to do with that. Honestly. They are two separate issues. I was always a high earning career woman before dd and the only way I could cope with it all was to buy gina ford books and look after her like another "job". That's just me as a person.

I guess I will just have to put my faith in everyone saying I will get through this. So close to packing it all in.

Hang on in there. You are doing great. The end of pregnancy is so tough - I can totally relate to feelings of not being there for your first born - my dd watched so much telly when I was pregnant - I felt so shit I just took the easiest option. But now my ds is nearly 2 and they adore each other - the crap months she had to put up with me being grumpy and shouty and stressed were worth it.

You will get through this, it will get better.

CrystalsAreCool thank you.

Loony please remember you did get through this last time. You are still here. You made it through to the otherside. You can do it again. Tge baby will come. You will not know how but you will make it through. You must take every opportunity to get help whenever you need it now and after tge birth.

The reasons you give for having another baby, I've heard worst ones! You are not stupid. You are brave. You are caring. You are generous.

You dh doesn't understand. To explain it makes how you feel even worse. To say tge words out loud was so difficult for me. There are still things I haven't told him. To lie when I went to the gp makes me tge stupid one out of both of us.

Btw treating a new baby like a job is not unusual at all, it's sensible IMHO.

Hope you get some sleep( hope I get some too)