just told dh he can have ds when he is born

[Loonybun]

Well everything is a mess. Got married a week ago. 25 wks pregnant with our ifirst baby, I have a dd aged 9. I had a traumatic birth with dd and bad pnd and I am not coping with this pregnancy and the feelings I'm having at all - we both wanted this baby, we were on the ivf list but conceived naturally.

Today dh is upset as I have been so withdrawn, he says he doesn't know why I married him as its clear to him I don't want to share anything. I've talked to him about how I feel but he gets angry as he is upset. I've ended up telling him that when ds is born he can have him as I probably won't feel any bond at all (as I didn't with dd, took years). He burst into tears and I left him to go shopping. Now I feel awful but I still feel dead inside.

Oh OP I am SO SO SO relieved to read your latest update, i know it seems like nothing has changed but really it has, you have gained your first bit of control over this nightmare situation you're having.

So relieved that the midwife was good and nice about it. You poor thing. I know how dreadful it is to cry in front of doctors/med staff particularly when you don't actually trust them. it is truly awful.

i was going to say yesterday that you can tell the Dr. that citalopram made you feel weird and you are dreading taking it again. there are a variety of other drugs that they might try. Bupropion (trade name is Welbutrin) is often a good thing to try for people who've had not-so-good results with a-ds in the past.

thinking of you. you are so brave. i know you're feeling horrible but i hope that you know how admirably you are dealing with this. your DD is so lucky, DS is too even though at times i'm sure you don't see it that way.

your DH sounds like he is absolutely panicking. its horrid that you can't actually lean on him. i hope that once the medication starts, you can get to a point where he has stopped flapping and both of you can start to relax and regain some hope. x

Hi OP - I read you last post and had a little cry. Because I am so proud that you spoke to the MW, even though you really didn't want to.
Asking for help (from the MW, the GP, the Birth Trauma Assoc. your DH etc.) is what will make the difference and enable you to get through this pregnancy.
It might feel a bit pointless and sometimes you might feel like you are faking it, but each day is another to be ticked off the calendar. You are getting through it and one day you will be in a good place once again.

OP, i'm absolutely chuffed that you spoke so honestly to your Midwife. It sounds like she's going to help you, please take all advice and support she offers you.
When are you due to see her again? Can you request that she be your regular MW?
Please call the birth trauma org asap, it will hopefully help you a great deal.

im so pleased youre getting somewhere, You will get your C section, you will. If anyone needs one you do and youve got the perfect reason. Youve got your midwife on side and see your doctoir and get her onside and i think youll be ok.

citalopram made me feel awful. Like a zombie. If you didnt like the way that one made you feel, try a different one. Im on venlafaxine now and it has much less side effects. I havent really had any apart from the first few days

I'm so proud that you spoke to your MW (I gave mine a letter to read while I sat there sobbing) and that you'll be back on the meds soon. It really is for the best.

Good news too about the c section and also investigate the birth trauma group, you are not alone there is always here and there is someone who has been there, done that etc.

Much love and MN shoulder squeeze

You are so brave telling the midwife, really, it is the best thing you could have done in terms of getting a c-section and getting treatment for your depression. You will get out of the fog, but you do need some help to do that. Keep going.

I was very moved to read your post about telling all that to the midwife, you're braver than many, many people I've met! Well done, and online hugs.

Just to share that I've just remembered a family friend had a very prolonged birth and disastrous time at delivery (including a tear that was so bad it required a further operation under GA to repair it) and her consultant offered her elective C section fairly readily. This was an NHS Trust in Herts, quite a busy unit so it is possible. Will keep my fingers crossed for you, but you know if you get a refusal, you are entitled to ask for a second opinion or even demand referral to another hospital - provided you are happy to switch. But somehow I think having told the midwife, she might put in a word.

It sounds like your DH is trying as best as he can to make sense of the situation and attempt to find some way to help you - even if at the moment his offer to care for the baby as well as work full time might be a bit unrealistic. His reaction is really a lot better than I have seen from a lot of partners and husbands, believe me. But he too would crack under the strain if he didn't have someone to talk to about it.

Faking it - if it means you get through another few hours, then another day - is better than giving up. You have been very strong so far. Do believe in yourself that you can do this and come out smiling. But do consider the night nanny / live in nanny option too. Or even just to have someone just for Sun nights to Thursday nights. Two of my friends (they are sisters in law to each other) have never had to do it alone -ie handle a new born baby on their own for the first 4 to 6 months. Their mum/mother in law moved in and did the night stuff for them for every one of the four babies. Even when one of them moved abroad, she hopped on a plane (so to speak) and went to stay, doing the cooking, washing, all the bottle feeds (they were breastfeeding so this was one or two expressed feeds in the day or night), helping with some housework or babysitting the older sibling. Even when one had her baby within 4 months of the previous baby, she still got on a plane and did it. Once baby was older, she went back to her own home. She's a saint of course (that's what we all say) but if you can't have someone like that whom you are related to, then employing someone would be the next best thing - both my friends said they found the first 6 months plain sailing just to have that help.

Yep, you have done well. The best way to get a C section is to get medical professionals on your side in agreeing that you need one and for them to be the people arguing for it, not you. The midwife's letter should do the trick. I had a letter from my consultant who had treated me for a previous condition insisting I had a C section and from then on it was never questioned.

There is sometimes some value in 'faking it' - more in terms of practicalities like making dinner than in faking feelings. Hang in there.

Get your DH to ring a counselling service or speak to the birth trauma people himself and maybe then he can offload some of his own feelings on them, instead of the two of you just having one another to do that with.

Hello,

Have you looked into something like hypnobirthing - not for getting through a natural birth but for allowing you to feel more in control of the pregnancy (worked for me). Also, a doula to help you through the ante-natal and post-natal time to ease the pressure and give yourself time to bond - the link is doula.org.uk/content/how-much-does-doula-cost as it links to the access to doula fund if you are finance restricted.

I know how you feel about not wanted health professionals and SS crawling all over you once the baby is born and, for a start, it never being the same person twice makes you feel like just a number (as you said). Can only suggest being pro-active and keeping yourself healthy - anti depressants should take the edge off if the ones you took before didn't then tell doc and they can give you different ones.

The guidance now regarding C-sections is to counsel you about previous trauma but ultimately support your decision - I'd accept the counselling regardless of whether or not it worked last time or ask for CBT for the anxiety but, ultimately, a c-section sounds like the best option for you.

Take care of yourself.

So glad that you took the brave step of opening up to your midwife.

Make sure you get yourself to that GP tomorrow, even if DH has to take time off work to support you in getting there, the GP can refer you for CBT and counselling as well as prescribing anti-d's.

i know that Hypnobabies, which is the American natal hypnotherapy programme, has a whole lot of hypnosis resources to help women who are having caesareans. it's not just for vaginal birth.

also they have tapes for getting through the pregnancy, establishing feeding, preventing ppd and optimizing healing after birth.

it's worth a try if nothing else. hypnosis does have clinical effects, it's not all woo and lentil weaving (nothing wrong with woo if that's your bag, but personally i am fully committed to Western medical science!).

Thank you everyone, and thank you for all the advice and information about the hypnosis stuff. I will look into it. I'm not sure I'd like a doula - I'm a really private person and the thought of sharing stuff with another person (even a woman who's experienced in these things) doesn't feel comfortable for me, even though I know they do help other people. Thank you for the suggestion though. I do appreciate all the replies.

I haven't been able to get to the GP today unfortunately. I've got to do something for my mum which means I have to sit and wait at her house for a delivery for her so I've been a bit stumped.. And tomorrow my dh is home from work so I'm not sure I'll be able to be as open about everything as I should be (if that makes sense) if dh comes with me to the appointment and then I don't know if it will achieve much. So I will try for Friday I think.

I will ask about trying something other than Citalopram. Although I have been on Prozac as well and didn't get on with that.. So I will see what they say. I'm a bit reluctant to take something, I don't want to "lose" months of my life in a blur really. But I guess I am anyway really.

I think dh is feeling a bit out of his depth with it all. I think he was surprised I told the midwife how I was feeling... He says he will support me whatever happens. I know I am very lucky really. A lot of women don't have the support of their partners.

I woke up feeling a little more positive today and managed to have a cuddle with dh this morning, something I think he was wondering if he was ever going to get from me again. I'm really trying very hard. We usually (before all this) had sex very regularly - at least most days- and he feels really sad that I haven't been in the mood to even cuddle let alone anything else. It's not that he's moaned about it, he's just sad about it.

I've gradually slipped downhill a little since then... Dh took me being in a slightly better mood to mean that I was "okay" again and he started going on about we need to get for the baby.. Which I know we need to talk about but I find it difficult. He's trying to work out how much money we need to allocate towards everything. It's a reasonable conversation to have, it's just that I'm not very reasonable right now. Everything we've brought so far for the baby is hidden under a massive sheet in the dining room on top of the pram. I don't feel ready to get everything out and look at it all yet. I'm in denial really.

I'm finding it very hard to be around my mum or talk to friends (mainly a couple of the mums I know at school who randomly chat to me) about how I'm feeling. In fact they don't know how I'm feeling. I think my mum would be quite angry with me, she was angry with me when I was like this about dd. She's very maternal and she just doesn't understand at all. It's not that she's being horrible about it particularly it's just that for some woman having a baby is the most wonderful thing in the world and it's like I've insulted her very being by suggesting it's anything other than that. She's noticed that dh and I haven't been very happy since we came back from honeymoon and she keeps asking if she's done something wrong. I have told her it's not her. She's bewildered really. She doesn't understand. I can't tell her.

Even the lollipop lady on the way to school with dd drives me crazy. She's always waffling on at me about how big I'm getting and not long till the baby is here. I know rationally she's trying to be nice but I feel like crossing the road further down just to avoid her - which I would do if I could but she's literally outside the school.

Dh took dd to school for me this morning. He's on late shift today, so it's not something he can do all the time. He's also offered to take her to her dance class tomorrow evening so I don't have to sit and make conversation with the other mums.

I felt quite annoyed as he told me he'd discussed everything with one of his (male) friends at work. I just hate everyone knowing our business. I don't want people to look at us and think we're struggling with anything. It's embarrassing. But I know he's lonely and he's looking for some support. I didn't say I was annoyed, I just asked about it all.

I feel quite out of my depth with everything. I'm used to feeling quite in control of everything and I have no idea how this is all going to go (in terms of the birth or c section, how i'm going to cope afterwards, the future). I feel a bit like a fish out of water, like it's not my life. If my bump was just strapped on I'd take it off now and give it back and say thanks I've tried that and I'm not really sure about it all now so I'll think about it a bit longer but I don't have that option.

I worked out that if I have the c section in the 38/39th week then I actually only have about 11/12 weeks to go. That's pretty scary. All my thoughts are consumed by the same feelings - "I'll go to bed and read a book, because after 11 weeks I doubt I'll ever be able to relax like that again"... "I'll go to sleep because after 11 weeks I won't be able to chose when I sleep again"... "I will go to the shops on my own because after 11 weeks I won't be able to go on my own again for a long time" ... etc etc. It's all consuming.

I'm trying to be positive about things. To think ds is going to be a different experience from dd and you never know I might enjoy being a mum again. I don't know. And then at the same time I just think I will feel like leaving him with dh because I don't want to be around him, I don't even feel like babies know if you're there or not as long as they are fed and watered by somebody, it could be anybody, so why should I make the effort just for the sake of appeasing everyone else.

Ho hum.

I better get on with the day. I will let you know what the GP says on Friday. I'm hoping to keep writing here for a while and one day everything will seem better. Maybe.

read your update, you are so brave and are doing so well in a really horrid situation OP. i can just imagine how you feel re: your Mum, friends etc. It's really so hard when you know you can't go into detail because it will actually just upset the other person too much. it's like you don't want to "contaminate" them with the horrid things that are torturing you so you end up feeling even more alone. awful.

it's temporary though. that's probably not a comfort right now but maybe some small part of you can take comfort in that. you aren't going to feel like this forever.

really hoping you can get to GP really really soon, it's so important that you start on medication even if it's just to give it a go. do ask about bupropion, it's a very different sort of drug to Prozac/citalopram. E.g. it usually causes weight loss and higher sex drive, whereas all the other a-ds are notorious for the opposite side effects.

rambling a bit but just wanted you to know i'm still thinking of you.

I second a previous poster's suggestion of looking into a treatment called EMDR. You may need to pay for it, but it is NICE approved for the treatment of PTSD. Good luck!

Birth Phobia is a recognised condition, look up info on the web and then go to see the GP, explain that midwives are not taking your concerns seriously. They should advocate for you, they are not.

Also recently it's been in the press, NICE have said that women suffering from birth phobia should have counselling very early on, if they are still insistent and still frightened they should be allowed a CS.

Me again... Thank you for the replies. I have been reading up on Birth Trauma and Birth phobia.. It's been interesting to read other people's stories. The one thing that is a little different seems to be that despite having a terrible birth, when the baby arrives this seems to make everything "ok" for most people in the sense that they can come to terms with having had a bad experience because they have a baby to show for it... ie "having the baby made everything ok" - this wasn't the case for me with dd and I can't imagine it being the case this time. I recognise I have severe anxiety / depression about actually having the baby as well. So it's like there isn't a golden nugget of sunshine to look forward to at the end of anything.

I have made an appointment to see my GP today at 4pm. That in itself is quite a big deal for me. I generally think they can't do anything to help with how I feel about it all but talking to everyone here and the affect it's having on my dh makes me feel I at least need to give it a go.

I'm unsure how honest to be with my GP. I mean I can say to him that I'm feeling anxious about the possibility of being forced into a vaginal birth and tell him the midwife's written to the consultant to request I have a c section further to my letter and appointment with the consultant.... That's only half of it though really. But I'm worried that if I tell him how I'm really feeling then I might not see the light of day again or that he will suddenly send a mental health team round or whatever else.

My main concern is that I will be labelled mad (no offence meant by this to anyone that is but I reasonably insightful so I don't want to be carted off anywhere). I can't have my ex dp (dd's dad) find out about it either somehow and try to say i'm an unfit mother and try to take dd aged 9 away from me... I know he'd have a field day if he knew how I was feeling about everything right now. It's really that more than anything else that's holding me together at the moment.

I mean how do you go in and tell your GP that you've considered killing yourself because you don't want to have this baby no matter whatever way they offer you to have it because every possible way is just as bad as each other (c section marginally less), and basically to just not be here is better than to go through any of it at all?

And them saying to you that "you'll have a baby at the end of it" is quite possibly the worst thing imaginable so it's not exactly a comfort? That's a bit of a difficult conversation to have.

Dh had a day off from work yesterday.. I think he was a bit hurt that I didn't want him to come to the gp with me (so didn't book an appointment till today) but I have come to the realisation that I need to stop talking to him about all this as he's going to end up hating me. It's too painful for him as he just doesn't understand and I'm sucking the joy out of everything for him.

So I compartmentalised everything (I find it easy to detach myself) and we ended up having a nice day, we went for lunch, we laughed about things, I pretended I'm doing okay and that I'm happy about everything to do with the baby.

In the evening he cuddled up to me and touched the bump and was happy and emotional to feel the baby moving about, I haven't let him near the bump for a few days as I've just been totally shut off and in denial about everything but I know I'm hurting him by being like that.

Today he's been texting me from work and asking me to tell him what the doctor says and that he wishes he could go with me. I told him I will tell him what he says.

(I will ask about that anti depressant Bupropion. Thank you for mentioning that one to me).

Dh is not stupid however and knows I'm not 100%.. he sent me a text saying "thank you, yesterday was lovely" - I think he knows I'm making a massive effort.

I took dd to her dance class with him last night which is hard for me as all the other mums were there and they all asked how long till the baby is due, and have we got everything and "oo how exciting" smiles, laughter etc. I played along with it all, made all the right noises. Dh seemed so happy, he really wants to be able to get excited about everything. I feel sorry for him. It's not his fault he's married to a woman like me.

I work part time and I am back to work next week and I'm dreading it as it will mean more talking to people but I'll just have to put a face on and get on with it. I don't want to go on maternity yet.

The odd thing is despite having a reasonable day yesterday on the face of it, I don't feel any different really. Dh and I already have a name for the baby and dh will refer to when "xx" is here, and talks about the baby being "xx" but to me it is just "the baby". I don't feel like it's anything to do with me or even that it's anything other than a random baby that's somehow hijacked my body and has taken up residence in my body. I'm not interested in seeing what the baby looks like or wondering what it's going to be like. Whereas dh is always talking about who it will look more like or whatever else. I feel like it's his baby and nothing to do with me. Of course I can't and wont' say this to him.

I spent part of the day yesterday looking at holiday brochures thinking to myself that if I do feel this way when this baby comes as I think I will then I might just use my credit card and take myself, and possibly dd, away on a long haul holiday and leave dh (and my mum and his family) to it as he's the only one who's actually bothered about the baby. Yes, that's selfish but it's a strangely comforting thought to enable me to get through the day. I actually had the thought that if I liked it wherever I went then I could get a job out there and just not come back. The main reason this could never be a reality is because I couldn't do that to dd or to dh. I am utterly trapped.

So back to today and the reality of life. More chores to do, things to sort out. And then the GP. I guess we'll see what he says.

Well done for making the GP appt. I think you need to be as honest as possible. It sounds as though you are very good at putting a brave face on things, so it is very possible that you will convince your GP that things aren't too bad really if you talk down how you are feeling.
Making the appt. has been incredibly hard and you are in a very dark and sad place the moment, don't let the GP think that he can fob you off with inappropriate help just because you come across as coping.

Good luck, I really hope it goes well at the GPs. You are doing a fantastic job just getting through the days at the moment.

Well done for making the appointment Loony- I agree with the above, please be as honest as you can.

These are not things that will shock your GP- but they will be concerned for you.

Please don't be shocked if they do suggest involving a mental health team- it's more layers of support, and really doesn't mean anyone thinks you're a bad mother or need locking up or carting off.

I konw a lot of us will be thinking of you at 4.

best wishes.

Good luck OP.

thinking of you OP
so pleased you went to the GP.

having had a very bad initial experience talking to a GP about a trauma, and then going on to rectify the situation at the next appointment, i've got some suggestions to help if things go awry.

you'll get the help you need, MN won't have it any other way

Thanks.

I've come back from the gp. Mixed feelings really. He seemed sympathetic. He said he would write to the consultant (as well as the midwife saying she would) and reccomend that I have a c section. So that's a good thing I suppose.

However, as I suspected he seemed to think that granting me a c section would be like a magic wand and its really such a small part of it all. I can't blame him thinking that, its hard to understand I guess. I told him that I'm anxious about bonding with the baby and a phobia of hospitals in general and he looked a bit exasperated, he wasn't sure where to start really.

He said he wasn't keen to put me on anti depressants given the other meds I take (thyroxine and I have a pituitary tumour so he thinks an increase in sertonin could cause this to grow, which is one of the things I have monitored by the endorcinologist at the moment). He suggested progesterone injections but I have never heard of that so I thought I'd come away and research it all.

I'm a bit worried that given I'm having a boy baby that progesterone injections can't be a good thing can they? I have no idea.

The gp then gave me a little green card with their surgery's mental health teams number on it for me to refer myself to for counselling, which I have done (emailed them when I got home).

I've told dh what the gp said. He says to do whatever I think is best, but I think he's worried about it all.

Then to top it all I bumped into one of the mums I used to know on the way hhome and she started going on about the baby again. I was always well known for being very career minded (worked full time until a year ago) and everyones shocked I'm pregnant so they make a big fuss about it all "oh I thought you didn't want any more!" Blah blah. Just felt like saying fuck off. Eveeryones so bloody nosey. I don't want to go out anymore. Not now not when the baby is here. I'm fed up with it all.

So I guess I feel a bit "meh" really. :(

SO happy you self-referred already! well done you! you're really doing everything you can, this is just wonderful to read.

The Dr probably wasn't exasperated as such, probably just out of his depth IMO. And he is out of his depth, you need more than what he can offer, hence him suggesting you self refer.

afaik progesterone is a normal hormone of pregnancy and wouldn't affect your boy. i think it's oestrogen that would affect him actually. but i'm not a Dr so can't say much more than that. don't know what the action is or how it would work tbh.

i understand what you mean about the c-section being offered by GP like it's the cure-all. and you're right, it's not. i am concerned about the anti-d refusal on behalf of you Dr tbh. i sense that he doesn't realise how profound and overwhelming your feelings are right now.

can i suggest making a concise list of your symptoms, feelings and fears, under three headings, pregnancy, birth and post-partum. i suggest sending a copy to the GP and the midwife, and also bring it along to the counselling referral. i feel that will help them understand that this is not just about getting a c-section, it's more than that.

if you're worried about how the list will look to SS etc., maybe post it here and we can help you with it? you can also PM me if you like, i've had to make a similar list in the past and boy did it set things in motion (in a good way). i'm only about in the afternoons and evenings tho.

Thanks oikopolis. I will make a list as you've suggested, probably won't get around to doing that till monday tho as I have dd with me this weekend. But its a good idea. I do agree that the gp doesn't seem to really understand the impact this is having on my life. Part of that feels like my fault though. I was quite composed during the appointment and even laughed in exasperation about getting the c section a couple of times, so maybe I didn't give a true indication of how desperate I'm feeling. I was aware however that I needed to get back to my mum and dd afterwards so I felt I needed to keep a lid on things as if I walked back in like I'd been crying I would have had twenty questions (I did anyway from my mum but told her point blankly I didn't want to talk about it, she said "oh you're getting frightenend?" And I said "no I just don't want to talk about it" and that was the end of that).

There's not much online about the injections. You may well be right about the oestrogen (I'm on my phone now so my spelling is probably crap).

I don't want the guilt of felling I've harmed dh's baby as well as feeling as crap as I already feel about everything.

I can't shake this feeling of being embarrassed and ashamed to be seen pregnant. Before I started to see dh I was with another man for 6 months and he was quite a bit younger than me and I fell for him in a big way and he basically used me for sex albeit with a bit of friendship. I kept hoping it would turn into more but it didn't and he wanted to go travelling. He never met dd and only ever came over when she was in bed. I ended it and he went travelling and while he was off doing that I met dh (several years ago now). When he came back he got in contact and I told him I had started to see someone else. That was the end of that. And I'm glad, we weren't suitable. But he still lives in the same town as me and he now has a new much younger than me girlfriend I've seen him with and I just think what was so awful about me that he couldn't commit to me and yet he's in a relationship now... And I feel deeply old and embarrassed that I'm now so obviously pregnant. I don't want him to see me. Despite the fact my dh is actually the same age as him funny enough. But what the fuck does it matter anyway?? I realise all this is complete nonsense. I suppose it just reaffirms my fears that I'm no longer that easy going socialising going out person and I'm a fat (pregnant) woman in my thirties.

Dh is back in about an hour. Dd is singing to herself in the shower and I'm not sure how I'm going to get through this really. I'm beginning to think I will have to just go through the motions for dd and dh and just surpress my own emotions like a robot. I can't change the way I feel about this, just how I seem to others. That's the best I can do at the moment. But I suppose the things I have done this week have been a start.

I do really feel very grateful for all the advice. I couldn't have done anything to do with this without it.

I think you've taken massive strides in the right direction Loony! fantastic.

I could see that in a 10 minute appointment, when you're just starting to get to know a patient, the GP was probably keen to show his support for you straight away by offering to write to the consultant.

I can almost guarentee that he understands more than you feel he does at the moment, I think Oikopolis's list idea is a good one, and seeing the same GP again in a few days or a week or so with the list will help him understand more and will help you get a more understanding relationship from him.

With your other medical things going on, it would be a rash GP to start prescirbing antidepressants straight away, and it might be worth him writing to/ phoning your endocrinologist for some advice.

Good luck with the next few days!