Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 7

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Financial abuse Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.

Yup, recognize that one, but with yogurts - every flavour - except his - questioned. And the kids are teenagers!

I recognise that too. Except my dh would scoff the lot anyway even though he doesn't like them! I have 1 day after something is bough to eat it otherwise he considers it his.

nearly everything's little...really...it's the accumulation that kills you! That's EA.

So many have wailed..".perhaps I would have seen it/believed it if he'd just hit me" (of course they wouldn't necessarily...but you can see the point being made).

Grrrrr I'm so fucking pissed off with DH!!

This evening I have a) cooked dinner so that it was on the table when he walked in from work b) cleared up after dinner c) spent 3 hours trying to get dd to stop screaming and go to bed while he's sat on his arse watching tv.

He said if I want him to do anything I have to bring her down to him but I've established a bedtime routine so she stays in her room once she's gone to bed. He expects her to fit in with whatever's easiest for him and won't have it that it doesn't work that way. He's saying that I'm just a control freak for wanting him to continue in the routine I've set. Grrrrrrrrrrrr

IWBF,you know that the promise is a sack of shite don't you?

How long have you waited for him to stop being a twat to you so far?

When exactly do you think he'll suddenly come to his senses and start treating you like a human being?

GIVE IT UP. Let him go. Make the plans and get on with it. One small push and that is it. It's like giving birth, but to your own life.

Every day you delay is a day of freedom you have lost, and a day that you will KICK yourself for when you DO go.

Please do what you know needs to be done.

veeeee - I believe you may be married to my TF.

Except that you are not in Egypt.

You are already on your own, in fact having a waste of skin criticising from the sofa is WORSE than being on your own. Trust me.

Please, you don't have to live like this.

Hello.
I think I might have to join you.
22 years. I feel dead inside . I actually can't even bring myself to care. I feel like one day my rage and anger at myself and my inability to fucking grow a pair will one day spill over.
In the meantime, I carry on. I have a 9 year old, 7 year old and 1 year old. What else can you do but carry on.

Hello inbetweener

You carry on, until the day you decide that you really can't take any more, that he really won't change, and that the damage it is doing you and DC is not fucking OK, and the only thing for it is to walk out (or make him leave)

We all get to that stage in our time, for our own reasons.

I felt deader than I ever thought a living human being could feel just before I decided to leave TF, btw.

inbetweener, you are welcome anytime. If we can help, let us know?

It won't always be like this, you can and will get out, you just need to get ready for it. You can carry on, you will carry on and your lives will be better one day.

We all take the steps we can, when we are able.

Hi ladies,
Could I ask a question and perhaps aks for some advice?
Is it a bad idea to confront an abusive ex (male) and his mother,
To call him on his abusice behaviour?
Why would it be bad idea, would any good come of it?
Thankyou

Hi inbetweener and welcome to this sorry but great place.

Feeling dead inside is actually a good way to manage an EA relationship because nothing hurts. The down side is that there is no joy or excitement either. I coped like that without being aware I was doing it for years, took pride in being "tough" and not crying at films or sad books etc.

You will need to get out before you will be able to allow yourself to feel again.

Once you start to let feelings back in it is like the world comes back into colour from black and white. Everything seems more alive, more vibrant and more painful. Now I am vulnerable to feelings I am not brave, I cry easily and I enjoy moments of happiness over little things. It is fantastic but scary too.

Have you got a thread with your back story on it?

Bobits... in short, no point.

he won't see it, she will (a) back him up (b) be the cause of his abusive nature anyway.

detach and leave them for dead.

bobits no point saying anything to Ex to his face. Abusers never accept they are in the wrong.

You could write everything you would like to say to him and his M in a letter then ceremonially burn it That would help you move on perhaps. But don't send it. It won't help!

Bobits - I wouldn't confront an ex and his mother because

1. he's an ex and
2. his mother is not him, exactly what did you want to confront her about?

I personally don't think it's a good idea to have ANY type of contact with an abusive ex unless its in writing.

No good will come of it. He won't stop being abusive (why would he).

Can you tell us a bit more about your circumstances.

Your all lovely.
No I haven't a thread. I'm being brave typing this. He is very good with computers and the internet, its his thing. He's told me (warned me ) many times he can find anything out if he wants too. Once its on the web I can get it I have heard so many times.

Im not even sure I could explain it all. I genuinely wonder if its me sometimes. It's all typical soul destroying Crap though. Controlling behaviour, to the point I go nowhere. I'm not even joking nowhere. Work. That's it. I have to make sure in at my desk when he rings though or he will sulk. Wonder what I'm doing and with who. Ha ! That's a joke. I've purposefully let myself go so he won't think I'm trying to attract people. Omg that's the first time I've realised that. I've been on maternity leave. I'm back to work in Monday. I'm dreading it. For the wrong reasons. I don't go to lunch. I make sure in by a phone.

A snapshot of my life.

Today he has been ill, vomiting etc. I took the dc to school, went shopping ( after checking it was ok and ringing him three times while out so he knew I was genuinely shopping ) he doesn't ask me to do that, but its easier and tellingly he doesn't tell me to stop either ! Came back gave baby lunch, cleaned up sick mess, did school run again, got his tablets and fags, he went to bed till seven so I did dinner, baths, homework, bed etc. He got up, I asked if he was ok, got him a drink. He's angry with me. All he wanted was a hug and I haven't done it apparently.........

You do know how to delete your history or do private browsing inbe?

My H used to stalk me on here and even posted on some threads I was on. He even posted a thread pretending to be a woman reversing our story to get sympathy. AF told him to tell me to FO and when I got there FO some more. So I did!! She was so right.

You are living with a control freak. He will not change.

Thankyou - I had done this on friday.
-I put across that his dad had abused his mum (Asked her to speak of this, of how she felt).
-Pointed out how his dad showed and stil shows favouritism toward one of his siblings (Which his mum did back up) and how this negatively affects their relationships with him and each other - that they're competitive - so he views his peers as superior or inferior to him. And destroys his self esteem.
-I then pointed out how his dad now is old, angry, jealous of his mothers relationship and can't even see it. This bully has destroyed his whole family.
-I showed him how his actions toward me - destroyed our relationship.
-I showed him how his actions toward my ds1(not his) - mean he will never see him again.

• I put across if he chooses to continue with his abusive behaviour, he will single handedly destroy the r.ship he has with our dd and in 50 years he will look around and there will be no-one there.

I had him at shame and guilt , he saw and felt it(though you're right no acceptance). His mum felt it too, and took it to the next stage of fear of the truth and consequences and as in deep denial - got angry (and you're right again defended him).

A waste of my time prob, I know. But as he won't just drop dead he will always be my daughters dad (even if a supervised distance). I wish she had a better role model.
I will carry that shame myself. But not the guilt, as its over now.

As I'm not a part of my ex's family - it is sad to see from a distance the damage abuse does. His dad has them all trapped with shame, guilt and fear. And he always will until he dies. It's not fair because it was his shame to carry, not theirs. And they are all to scared to stand up to him. It's sad to see that abusive behaviour is a defence for feeling shame I think.

The abuser feels shame but can't quite believe it, the truth is frightening. And because they can't see a way through they deflect, blame, deny, get angry.

How could you believe you were an abuser? If you knew nothing else?
It would mean 'real work' to change - and what if you couldn't?
And if your abusive behaviour (bullying) is based on low self-esteem you couldn't possibly have the self belief you could...
...therefore hide it, deny it, blame him, blame her.
But underneath they know and they feel it.

Sorry for the ridiculous epic post. Writing my thoughts really helps.xx

Yes we can feel compassion, eventually, if we are lucky, for those who seem doomed to live the recurring curse.

We can break the curse for our children, I hope. But the abusers must break their own curse, if they can.

Bobits, by you standing up to him, you're showing your DC that it can be done.

Even if they don't witness it, your demeanour where he's concerned will have changed. You can and must stamp on all controlling behaviour.

OK so your comments won't make a jot of difference, but you've drawn a line now, you've stated your position. All you have to do now is re-state your boundaries, stand firm and refuse to allow them to bully you.

Telling them what you think is good. You've shone the bright light of truth at them, and they know the game is up with you know. All you have to do know is maintain your burgeoning strength.

Well done.

Inbe: he's reduced your life to zero, and got you to shrink it even more.

First things first (and you can do this) there's a new policy at work. No personal calls at work. Let him sulk, but shrug, you don't make the rules. He's controlling you from afar! That has to stop.

Oh and don't believe the crap about him being all-knowing. Many of them make us think that. I believed mine was a spy! Spent hours trying to make sure he didn't know I'd moved x, y or z.

Keep talking to us. You'll get your strength back, bit by bit. We're all here to help you.

^It's sad to see that abusive behaviour is a defence for feeling shame I think.

The abuser feels shame but can't quite believe it, the truth is frightening. And because they can't see a way through they deflect, blame, deny, get angry.

How could you believe you were an abuser? If you knew nothing else?
It would mean 'real work' to change - and what if you couldn't?
And if your abusive behaviour (bullying) is based on low self-esteem you couldn't possibly have the self belief you could...
...therefore hide it, deny it, blame him, blame her.
But underneath they know and they feel it.^
A heartfelt thanks for that, Bobits never a truer word was said.

Inbetweener- hello. Your post abount emotional "deadness" really struck a chord here. (lots of things on this thread since I've been posting have, just a couple of weeks really have made me identify with the lovely ladies here and realise im not a weirdo freak as h would have me believe. It's not just me! Yay and boo at the same time)

I have got very very good at levelling my emotions- so no depths of feeling sad or highs of elation. I didn't even know why- or had barely even realised it myself- but its only since Christmas really that I have acknowledged it. I used to love music- but have only been able to listen to banal morning radio or radio 4 (which I do love!) as I am pretty guaranteed not to hear any moving music. Now i am allowing myself to seek the music that touches me- and thats almost anything from the killers to civil wars to pendulum to adele to Katy perry-but does guarantee that I am in tears a lot! Well, I guess I would be anyway but each time I cry it's like a little bit of me that has been stored up and squashed for so long is coming out and I know that whilst it's bloody hard, it's good news and once I'm all cried out and the real me is on the outside again, I'll be ready to make my move.

But, I have been afraid to feel for so so long, it makes me nery and "jangly" and uncomfortable, sort of out of control and scared when I do feel something as I don't know how to cope with with these new things called emotions.

Reading bobits posts (hello by the way!) I am bothered about the concept of my husband knowing and more importantly making conscious decisions to emotionally abuse the people who love him most. We have grown up together, I was 19 he 20 when we met and I was his first "proper" girlfriend, and our relationship has just evolved to this point. Do I have to subscribe to the idea that he knew from the outset he was a controlling, unkind, mean person? If so I must take reaposibility too for allowing it to happen. I was in a dark place when i met him and needed someone to lean on- have I just been suckered in? Did he knowingly do the suckering? (sorry- I think
I may have just made up a word that sounds plain silly!)

Wow epic post, sorry ladies!

Bobits, that was really brave. Respect.

Inbetweener, you did the right thing to come on here. What LHoC says about feeling dead inside being protective is true. Before I identified that P is emotionally abusive, I was aware of becoming emotionally detached and thought I was depressed. I'm not - it's a rational, sensible response that prevents him from controlling you more than he is currently.

I just got the Lundy Bancroft and Patricia Evans books from Amazon. I have never bought a self-help book in my life because I am a fake tough person. They are amazing and I can't recommend them highly enough. I started reading secretly under the duvet after I put the DCs to bed last night.

Do I have to subscribe to the idea that he knew from the outset

No, EW, I think it's more subtle than that: a lot deeper-set and less conscious. There are a few individuals who plan life as warfare or, perhaps as it seems to them, a chess game. Nearly everyone else in life, though, acts out unconscious scripts they've inherited from their birth family; their school; other things that have happened in their lives. Even conversations overheard in childhood create scripts for the growing adult.

He may have been aware of suckering you, but it most likely seemed to him that's just the way life is, or should be.

I must take reaposibility too for allowing it to happen

You have not allowed, or disallowed, anything happening in his psyche. You probably have enacted some scripts of your own - perhaps related to a wife's role and/or a relationship template - which fitted, more or less, with some of his. That sort of thing can be useful to explore after separation. We can only ever seek to alter our own scripts (and help write our children's), not to rewrite someone else's.

... unless you fancy attempting experimental brain surgery on him?

Garlicbutter, this:
There are a few individuals who plan life as warfare or, perhaps as it seems to them, a chess game.
is absolutely right. P openly philosophises about this and sees the whole world as a complex series of power relationships. I don't believe that anyone perceives themselves as an abuser - humans are pretty hardwired to think of themselves as trying to do right. If you believe that the world is a hostile place and you are being attacked, it follows that you will try to better your position by behaving aggressively towards your perceived attackers. It's a whole axiomatic mindset that no partner can fix.