how could he :(

[chocoraisin]

I've just come 'home' after staying with my parents for a month, having found out about the OW the week after NY. I'm 17 weeks pg, with an 18mo DS.

So I'm back at the place I have shared with H for nearly 4 years, and our neighbours (who are lovely and devastated on mine and DS's behalf) brought me pizza for tea to be supportive. I stupidly asked them if she had been seen here. H has sworn blind he wouldn't do anything in our home. I know I shouldn't have asked, think I was stupid enough to be looking for reassurance.

Apparently they regularly see her leaving in the morning in the month I've been away. AND heard them having sex. My neighbour could have sugar coated it, but to be fair, I asked and she was so embarrassed and upset for me I know it was one of those 'oh god she put me on the spot, crap I'll just blurt it out' moments, not said to hurt me.

We share a one bed flat. He has had sex with her in our bed. Next to our sons cot. Below our wedding photo on the wall. And she knows I'm pregnant.

How could he? Never mind what kind of a skank she must be to be ok with that. He has been texting/calling this month acting like we can be instant best friends... and perfect 'coparents'... but my trust in him is shattered. I hate the thought of being near him. I literally feel sick about having no option but to sleep in that bed tonight.

I don't know what to do :( I just need some hand holding tonight please.

To top it off, DS is exhausted but after a month away won't settle in his cot and just shrieks when I put him down so I'm looking at another long, broken night. 'Daddy' is due to visit tomorrow for his contact time.

I can't believe what's happened to my life :(

Hello, hope you're feeling ok about things today. Just reading about you wanting to send H pics of DS in his PJs and thought I'd add a little word of warning - although to you it would seem a kind thing to do, he may take it as rubbing his nose in what he is missing out on.

As sad and true as that may be, it might be better not to actively try to engage him with DSs life. As you say, he should realise how sad it is himself, but I don't think that you forcing that on him will have the desired effect (i.e. make him feel like the twunt he is for walking out on you all) but may make him - and his precious dad - think you're being unnecessarily cruel or vindictive by showing him what he's missing.

Maybe that's one of the things you can do with the scrapbook when DS2 arrives, send the book with DS1 on his visits so that H can see what fun you've all been having in his absence!

I agree with Bumptious

abitwobblynow, you are suggesting that potential partners in future avoid your children because of their father?

I can understand your point of view, but the main thing is that we have to analyse the behaviour of our partner.
With hindsight, the warning signs were there for my ex. Probably for yours too.

abitwobbltnow I hear you and in my case, agree wholeheartedly. In fact I dearly wish I'd know this before embarking on a disastrous relationship which I am still picking up the pieces from 15 years later.
I thought that my love could conquer all, what a fool I was. XP treated me like his father treated his mother, it was ingrained, learned behaviour, and XP could see no wrong in it.

All families are a bit f**ked up but we all try to rise above it and learn from our parents' mistakes - or rather we should.

I think abitwobblynow's POV is that in a situation when we are given the choice (like choosing a life partner), it's good to do the research first.

Hey choco you are still being strong and hanging on in there I'm glad to see!!

My stbxh also behaved just like his dad (who also had an affair at 39) .. MIL took him back though and she leads a very miserable existence with him..

we are escaping that .. I've seen what might have been my potential future and it ain't pretty!!

Sorry everyone, just as I posted I realised that was very one-sided and I was going to add the proviso (but then had to run and attend to something)...

I was going to add (promise!)

'but that also applies to my family - generations of hurt and dysfunction passed down. Of course, which is why I 'recognised' him when other young women avoided such a 'catch'.
BUT the difference between him and me, is that I have owned the hurt and the upset. I had looked (with great pain) at what my parents did wrong, kept the things they did right, and I believe I have broken the cycle. I try to be the best mother I can and simply do not dump on my children as I was, and support them and praise them in a way I was not. They have rewarded my [courage in facing the truth] by being just wonderful sane functioning young people, they are my precious gift in this life, they are my triumph over my past.

He, on the other hand, doesn't think he has to look at anything, it didn't affect him, I make too much of a fuss/am too emotional... hence his coping skills and the coping skills of his siblings (yes, they are all selfish twunts, denial is such an incredible thing! I could see it in them, but not in him), and my trying to be the best human being I can be.

And that is the difference. But, guys, we really do have choice and free will in this world. And EVERY choice we make, even choosing not to choose, has a consequence. It is a very old fashioned view these days as the narcissists of the professional political class do their best to 'change society' but it really doesn't make it any less true.

hello all :) it's a bloody contentious issue, family. I know for a fact that you can overcome your family's behaviours if you try hard enough - in my own there is a thread of narcissistic alcoholics on one side, and some violent abuse on the other... both my parents have come out as loving, committed individuals despite rather than because of their upbringing. On the other hand various aunts/uncles etc fall into dysfunctional patterns themselves. As for me, I know now that my relationship with my XP in my 20's was a typically abusive relationship (EA, financial abuse and dangerously close to physical) and he was the child of a violent father... but hindsight is always 20.20 isn't it? I'd love to think I'd spot a rotter a mile off now, but I don't know. I think I'll have some pretty sharp defences for a long while now :( can't imagine I'll trust anyone romantically for a while, no matter what their relations are like! In some ways, I'd rather be with someone who I know has faced their shit and grown up, but I can't imagine how you would suss that out.

I agree though that choice=consequence. It's a no-brainer, you do something (anything or nothing) and something else will happen as a result. Even now I can look back on my failed relationships and say, yes, XP was abusive, but I had a choice to leave and instead I let him abuse me (don't flame me, I'm not saying it's always the victim's fault just that in some ways, in my life, I let it happen when I could have left him). And I look at H now and say, yes it's shit, but I have a choice - and I choose not to let him do this to me ever again. I'm still not thrilled about how life has turned out, but I feel a lot less shit leaving him than I felt about staying with my earlier boyf.

Caught up with my neighbour tonight, turns out H hasn't been seen coming or going from the flat since I left, other than checking it out after I moved out. He's not had the OW around to their knowledge at all. She reckons he's actually weirded out by us not being there, and the day he came 'home' he just wandered up and down opening and closing doors for a couple of hours, then left. I don't really care - actually, in a strange way I'm kinda glad. I'm glad he's not moving in having a knees up bringing her round every night. Maybe it does bother him that we left. Even if he's just staying at hers (which I doubt, unless her mum and dad have really taken to him!) I still feel glad that our home doesn't seem 'homely' to him any more. I hope it feels empty and lonely and crap for him right now. (hello vindictive streak!)

Choco, can you imagine what OW's parents think about him? Who would want that for their daughter? Or even for her to be associated with such a person? You have no need to be vindictive because they will face disapproval every time they open their eyes. Even stupid stuff like soap opera story lines will make them cringe inwardly. And you're not vindictive at all. You just want him to face up to what he's done, nothing vindictive about that.

so H is downstairs with DS who has been running a fever all day of 39.2

They are watching Charlottes Web having cuddles. DS is stripped to his nappy, calpol'd up to the max and all floppy. I wish I could be there but I know it's bad to hover.

I know it's good for DS to see H, and he's perked up a lot since he's been here... but it's still hard for me :( I feel like I want to just settle in and watch the movie with them, as if nothing has changed, but it has. And me pretending it hasn't is just weird.

When he arrived DS was asleep, and when he woke up and I brought him down he just kept looking from me to H with a big grin, saying Mummy! Daddy! Like it was the best thing ever to have us together. I wish it was :(

Does this get easier anytime soon, or does it take months, years even? I hate feeling like I can't be there to look after my poorly boy when his dad is there... I hate it being one or the other of us :(

I think while you let XDH visit DS at your house you'll always feel like that. He needs to take DS away for access so you can relax. Obv if DS is ill you may then have to cancel contact.

Hey choco, just checking in on you, ds and bean..sorry to hear you have a poorly little boy, bless him. It must be hard to stay away when H is there and all you want to do is be with your boy.. I'm sorry I have no words of wisdom for you, just a few hugs and the hope that you and ds have a good weekend

you may be right midwife but tbh after driving down for 3.5 hours, and not having anywhere to take DS to, I didn't feel it was fair to just say tough luck see you next week. DS didn't seem ill until this morning and was seen by the GP at 11am - H was already more than halfway here - it's gonna last around 5 days (viral) apparently. I figured it was better to just let them spend a couple of hours together and stay out of the way :(

thanks for the hug nobody

I wasn't criticising - just meant that in future it'll be better for your feelings to not have to have ex in your house. I understand how hard it was to turn him away when your DS was so glad to see him.

choco, I hope your little one feels better soon.

I know it sucks, but FWIW I think you've made the right decision today.

choco - I typed a really big reply to you the other night and MN went off line and ate it - bastard thing!

You are doing really well!!

How is DS tonight? I think what you did re contact today was the best thing you could have done under the circumstances.

When are your parents back? I expect there was a part of you that was tempted to ask H to stay over to help out with DS if he was unwell in the night (given the pain you are in).

Have you stopped wobbling about feeling sorry for him?

thanks everyone :)

DS has perked up a little today and his fever isn't quite so high, so that's a relief. H is going to take him out if he's up for a bit of fresh air later to feed the ducks while I sort out the new nursery. My parents came back last night chipping so no chance of asking H to stay! And I have to say, even with the pain/poorly boy I'm surprised to say it didn't even cross my mind!

I still feel a bit sorry for him but I'm putting that feeling to one side as much as possible. It's helpful to acknowledge it though. Yesterday we had a bit of a chat about if/when things might change and he said nothing will change re: contact until Sept at least (bar the two weeks he plans to take off when baby comes) so it will be fri/sat for at least 6 months. My parents are happy for us to stay that long so it means that I have some breathing space now and some of the uncertainty is gone. I think DS will prob spend more full days with H on saturdays over summer but otherwise how it is now is how things will stay.

H is definitely sad about not seeing DS much, and I think little things are hitting him more and more - things like yesterday, he ran a bath for DS before he left, but he hasn't actually given him one himself since Christmas. And when he got up to go so I could get him bathed, DS just waved bye bye daddy like he was expecting it... to me, that is good progress. To him I think it has to hurt.

I do find it hard as well. Especially when we are both worried parents trying to get along and look after our little boy when he's poorly... its almost easy to ignore the fact that I think he's a royal scumbag when he's being a good dad. I don't want to waste my energy hating him, and I was really glad for DS that he had some lovely cuddles from his dad (who he worships) when he was feeling so ill. I can see his confidence coming back and that's great, he has had such a tough few months for a toddler. Knowing he is loved and safe is really special and I'm glad he's getting that. But then all of that good stuff just makes me feel emotional and hurt all over again when the bad feelings rush back in later on.

whoever said this was a rollercoaster wasn't joking :(

Choco - I'm pleased to hear DS is a bit better today. Going out with his Dad to feed the ducks sounds perfect for them and for you.

Please stop feeling sorry for him, he chose to have an affair and do this to you all. If you had just got fed up of life with him & left him for no particular reason you feeling sorry for him would be right & just, but in this situation it isn't. He was fucking her in your bed! He had a wife, a very small child and a baby on the way and he was fucking another woman - bear that in mind when you start feeling sorry for him.

I know it's hard though, it's kind of like (well it was for me) that there is this utter bastard who hurts you then there is the H that you love - they seem to inhabit the same body but in your mind are two different people. It's a mind fuck.

The rollercoaster goes on for a long time - but after a while you realise it goes up and along more than it goes down, honestly.

choco my little boy is 18 months too, and he's also been ill this week with a temperature. I've been thinking of you as I administered calpol and snuggled on the sofa, I've been knackered and I'm not even pg! I hope you are also getting a bit of time to look after yourself, I've been wondering how you're doing.

I think it's absolutely reasonable to feel sorry for what's been destroyed, to grieve for what is lost. I also think that, as someone's partner and wife, we get into the habit of caring about someone and caring FOR someone, and that is hard to stop doing.

I think that your emotional energy would be best spent elsewhere, though, I'm afraid. He might be feeling sorry for himself but he's not spending a lot of time feeling sorry for you or bad about the family he's destroyed, is he? I think there's a distinction between him feeling the consequences of his actions, and regretting them or trying to make things right. I'd only spend your precious emotional energy on him if the latter were sincerely happening, and I'm afraid while he's living with OW and planning a life without you and your children, I don't think it is. So he misses the child he left. It's very sad for your son, but... I'm afraid part of me thinks "Well good. He bloody well should be missing this precious time with this precious person. That's the least he deserves."

Sorry if it's not my place to rant. I am so on your behalf.

no, it helps to hear some ranting to be honest. I wish I could get back into the angry frame of mind, I'm just so tired and feeling sad instead. I see him with our son and I just think why? Why throw that away, you stupid, stupid man? It breaks my heart even though I know it's got nothing to do with me. And I can't change it. I know he doesn't want us back, but it really, really hurts that he doesn't. Even if I wouldn't have him back, it just feels awful that he's not even that bothered.

chipping I re-read your message a few times while he was here to keep myself strong!! thank you for the timely reminder. I think I have almost pushed some of the gory details out of my head so that I don't have to cope with the endless re-play of awful images in my own mind. But actually, maybe I need to remember that stuff more :( my mum thinks I'm making it too easy for him, but honestly I just don't know how to be. I don't want to be this angry, hurting person all the time. But I'm not sure that being nice-but-sad is any better.

blackcurrants you're right, I still have that part of me that wants to look after him in a stupid way. It's not conscious, it's just there. And I am not even aware of it half the time until it's after the event. I hope that I can tune out of that soon... how is your DS? I hope he's feeling much better now. Mine is feeling better, just in time for bedtime, in other words - he won't go to bed!!

Hah, he is much better, thank you. Very tired and just crashed out at five pm. . . No idea what will happen at the usual 7pm bedtime!

I absolutely get how your emotions are swinging towards the old family you had, I just don't want you ignoring what he did as that seems to be taken by these men as a sign that they can treat you like dirt and get away with it. I hope your ds is better and you have a good night.

How are things today, Choco?

hey 4c4 :)
Blackcurrants I'm glad your DS is much better!

I'm ok today thanks, been a bit up and down lately with my poorly DS and the pregnancy marching on. Happily he is bouncing back now but it's been a sleepless few days while his fever spiked. I had a consultant appt today to talk about my elcs... not so great. Despite the recommendations of my midwife/GP and physio the consultant isn't keen to sign off on it. This is the problem of moving to a new county midway through the pregnancy... I have to go through the whole process again. So I have 10 weeks of appointments now with the psych midwives (to discuss first birth trauma) physios (to monitor SPD progression) and the pain clinic (to stop the codeine and start opiate patches, which might manage it better). Can't say I want to be doing any of it on top of the whole readjustment to single mum-dom. But hey, there are worse things in life, and this is just temporary! Baby will be worth it. Just another thing to be bloody tired about!!

Have managed to keep contact with H down to the schedule so far this week. Hard, and upsetting, but I'm determined to get through it. And the feeling sorry for him has faded a bit thank god. DS was way less bothered by Skype today (3rd week of trying it out) and managed about a wave, counted to two (so proud of my 19mo for saying one...doo! haha) did a little dance then ran away. The hard part is not hanging around myself to talk when he's gone. I'm still weirdly overly polite... still, I guess that's better than being weirdly, overly rude. In the long term anyway.

thanks for asking x

I admire you so much, not least because you are right that polite is best.

I, on the other hand would find it hard not to say "oh fuck off and rot you slimey two faced cheating lying backstabbing cunt" but I am not a lady! :o

Sorry not used to the new tab pc thingy yet!

I meant to add that I had similar problems getting the birth I wanted after previous trauma and having spd. I wanted a home birth and I got it after much fighting and it was worth it. I felt like you do, so don't give up, you will get there :)

Keep the faith, you are doing amazingly well and your determination is inspiring me on my journey to singlemumdom, so thank you.
xx

Choco I still admire you You are so strong and wise!
I had letters from psychologist, counsellor and GP and consultant still wouldn't sign off on an elcs for me (1st baby, but big reasons). My only advice is - Keep fighting for it!

You are doing great choco glad your DS is better x