"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families.

[singingprincess]

There is a word document with all the relevant links which I will try and find, but in the meantime...Post away.

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

Calling them on it as you suggest feels like I am living up to her portrayal of me as difficult and awkward

And? Does her opionion of you make you difficult? Do these other people's opinions? They will believe what they want to believe, for their own reasons. Acting in a certain way in an attempt to control what they believe about you ultimately cannot work, since they are the only ones who can do that. You might as well be true to yourself and what you believe, and handle whatever the consequences are in the knowledge that you are doing what is right for you.

I say ask them not to talk about her in your earshot. You don't even need to justify your request. There is no need to prove that you are "right"; it's enough to say "I don't like this."

[Lemonylemon]

I've been on this thread quite a while ago and I do need to start posting again, but I won't be posting regularly - I'm on another thread at the moment, but I think that having been reading one book and glimpsing another, I'm at a place where things are falling into place a bit more.

"She never said she loved me or was proud of me. She never cuddled me - this was apparently my fault as I wasn't a cuddly baby."

This has been levelled at me by my mother. I am dealing with this by my dealings with my own children. The excuse given to me by my mother is that I rejected her because I pushed her away when she tried to cuddle me one day when I was about a year old....

At the moment, I'm ploughing my way through Nina Brown's "Children of the Self-Absorbed Parent". It's a good exercise.....

[slightlysalted]

Is the person who defends them the most close to you or can you avoid them? Did your mother have a dysfunctional childhood? I can see that both my parents had shockers of childhoods (my mother especially) so it makes it easier for me to stomach her and see her. Now the focus is on my children it has got a bit easier but i couldn't bear to spend much time with her directly and we avoid many many conversations.

[slightlysalted]

Lemony - that looks like a good book, would you recommend it? I've diagnosed my father as a narcissist and a bully with my mother as a narc too.

[Lemonylemon]

Yes, I would recommend it. There's also another book you can peek at on Amazon by Alice Miller - The Drama of the Gifted Child. Take a look at that too....

Looks like you got a double whammy too...... My Dad did undergo a complete personality change when he had major surgery, which is quite weird..... He became much, much nicer!

[fortoday]

hi everyone- not read all the posts as not been on recently but felt like i needed some hand holding tonight. Had my first counselling session today, first time someone said I was abused as a child outloud. Hard to stomach. There is so much i want to tell you about the session but I am drained, scared, feel like I've had my stomach ripped out.

Spent my childhood and life accepting that the beatings, the mental abuse and the hatred was normal, and even when i knew it wasn't I was too ashamed to admit it, or feared no one would believe me because on the surface we were a rich, functional pretty family.

I need to sedate myself today- heavily x

[fortoday]

sorry that sounded like i wanted to end it all! i don't- just need to sleep it all off.

worst thing about it all after what my mom did at new year she woke up the next day and did what she always did when we were younger and glazed over it, no apology, no acknowledgement. The therapist said this was one of the worst forms of mental torture, we suffered the event and then made to feel that it wasn't significant enough to discuss or apologise for. The therapist that my mother not only did this to me but subjected my children to it and due to my 4 year constantly saying 'grandma still hasn't said sorry' it has had a profound effect on her because it has confused her.

I HATE MY MOTHER, what did I do to deserve a narcissitic mother and a father dying of alcoholism at 51. Why?

[cupidsabsolutepsyche]

I had never heard the term gaslighting before reading this thread. My mother certainly did it when i was a child and would no doubt do so again if i brought up the past.

Like others, i'm having 'emotional flashbacks', possibly because i was so angry at the text message, and no doubt they have been in the back of my mind ever since DD was born. I guess it's totally normal to start thinking about your own childhood when you become a parent - I had tried to put as much of the past behind me as I could but I don't suppose I'll be able to, fully.

I'm also very aware that my mother is in her twilight years, not altogether well, and I am so baffled at how I'm supposed to feel about that.
My sister and I joke that we'll be able to talk to each other more freely about our lives when she's gone. She is almost a generation older than me (half sibling) and the cause of what she went through was the same, our mother's alcoholism. I used to be angry and sad that she didn't/doesn't/can't have a relationship with M but recently she's told me a few things about when she was a child that I just didn't know before. Things that show our M to be a liar.

I know there are things she doesn;t know about me, and yes, part of me wants to wait until M is no longer here before talking about it. We talk about the more light-hearted things these days but it's always there, under the surface, and I think if we got into a serious conversation we would both crack. We're not ready for that yet.

Sorry for rambling a bit incoherently, it just helps to write down what's going through my head.

[cupidsabsolutepsyche]

oh fortoday, just saw your post after i pressed send.

i don't know you but i'm here holding your hand.

[cupidsabsolutepsyche]

when somebody else acknowledges what you went through and says those words, it's almost like the tower you built to protect yourself comes crashing down because it's true and real and you didn't deserve any of it.

[oiwheresthecoffee]

I have a feeling i might belong here.
Im not really sure my experiences are not as bad as some of yours and im honestly not downplaying.But my relationship with my mother is i suspect not normal.
Im going to list a few things and maybe you can give me some input ? Im not sure if my mother is toxic or if she has some sort of MH disorder/issue. Im leaning towards MH issue mainly because i think it runs in our family. I have depression and have all my life in some way been mentally ill. I am now stable and controlled with medication. :)


Right off the top of my head she : Always belittled and feelings i had particularly related to my depression /anxiety. I had frequent panic attacks where i would sometimes vomit through anxiety. I remember a car journey where i had to ask my parents to stop as i was having one and thought i might be sick. She did stop but spend the whole time going on about how i was just "being silly" and wasnt going to be sick and needed to stop it. (MH problem was diagnosed at this point too)

Often she would talk in front of me/to me about how ill i was making her with my MH issues and how she "could not cope with it". Even when i was very very ill and in hospital i remember crying down the phone ( i was 13-14) and her just going on about how "it wasnt just hard for me you know" it was hard for her too - she couldnt sleep ?! and had to have pills from the GP. I cried myself to sleep after putting the phone down.

Her issues are always more important.

And.Shes very much a martyr. Whenever she was unwell when i was a child there would be a big show of her getting out of bed to make sure my dad was coping ok with just me and him...he was a grown man for gods sake. Lots of huffing and sighing and shouting in a quivering voice. To make sure we knew she was ill but still struggled to get up and try and look after us...

Recent phone call
Me : oh yes sorry the phone was engaged i was talking to A.
Her oh. you must have had a lot to talk about. (quiver in her voice here implying i dont talk to her as much.)
Me (ignoring) yes , we did.
Conversation carries on with her still putting on the upset mother voice to try and guilt me into paying attention to her/some other reason i dont understand.

Possibly the most hurtful of all , when i had a total breakdown and was taken to hospital the first time. I was very young , early teens and terrified , crying and wanting my mum/anyone to comfort me and say it was going to be ok.
She refused to come near me , said she was too upset , it was awful for her to see me so upset , she just "couldnt cope with me" when i was like this.

Naturally my father stayed with her the entire time as it was so upsetting for her. Some member of staff not a nurse or anything came and sat with me so i wasnt alone in the room for over an hour. Such a sweet woman i cant even remember her name. Anyway i cried and cried the entire time and called out to my mum to please please just sit with me. And she wouldnt.
Ive never ever forgiven her for this. The worse time of my life and my mother could put me first for an hour to sit with me when i was so frightened.



Anyway sorry for the essay ! Does any of this sound familiar particularly the martyr bits ? In other ways all was well , we had a lot of money , holidays and i had everything i wanted or near enough. I dont think shes a bad person but i do think she might be ill in some way. It cant be normal to behave like this ?

[oiwheresthecoffee]

Oh and if i bring any of this stuff up i just get " we did our best for you " and tears from her thus making me feel guilty and shut up about it.
Or my father anry with my for upsetting my mother and bring it all up again.

[oiwheresthecoffee]

And sorry for keep going on - if i ever mention any of this or that we dont get on she says it must be my fault. I think she also said this when i was bein bullied or at least indicated it. Apparently everyone she meets likes her and so the problem must lie with me. I do genuinely think she believes she is a wonderful person and shes not making it up.

At the same time i think she must have some MH issues, i cant imagine behaving to my child like this (as yet i have none).

[fortoday]

oiwheresthecoffee- glad you are talking- i didn't- had my first daughter, the weight of how my mom treated me as a child nearly crushed me, i wasn't insightful enough to understand that her beahviour towards was so severely disjointed until i had my own child. I couldn't physically and mentally abuse my children like she did me x keep posting by the way you're not going on this is what this page is for xxx

[cupidsabsolutepsyche]

oiwheresthecoffee - yes, keep talking. it is not and never has been your fault. read the information about narcissistic mothers (i think it is linked to on a previous thread, or google).

definitely recognise 'it wasn't just hard for you, it was hard for me too' - different set of circumstances but essentially downplaying your emotions and what you were/are feeling. it's awful coming from your own mother.

[NHAN]

Since posting before i've become a single mum and am really struggling tonight. I'm having flashbacks and lots of different emotions coming up, my ex is being really nasty already and we've only been over 5 days. I have no help with the children and i'm exhausted. I don't feel strong enough to do this. I just want a happy life, i'm doing my best to make my children happy but all i can see is a future of more misery. My children deserve so much better than this

[bringbacksideburns]

Narcissistic Personality Disorder - just looked it up. Scary to think how many traits my mum seems to have but not really surprised!

I would be here for ever if i remembered everything and i have read such very sad accounts here, that i don't really equate her with some of the monstrous parents here. Nor do i hate her and i do know that she loves me, but i will never ever understand her - and my god, can she be such hard work at times.
She makes me frustrated, angry, bewildered, gobsmacked...sad really. I always wanted the mum others seemed to have so i can relate to those that felt it must have been their fault when it was never anything to do with them.

My mum had a bit of a traumatic childhood which definitely affected her and was prone to black depressions where she would just go upstairs and lie on the bed for days. She has never taken any medication, which could have helped her. She has never seemed truly happy yet she has everything she could wish for and my dad is a lovely man and absolutely devoted to her and our family. He waits on her hand and foot but nothing he does is good enough. She constantly belittles him and has basically ruined his life. He was a very happy go lucky funny guy with lots of friends and through 50 years of marriage she has alienated him from his family and took firm control of everything. In the end he could only be friends with peopl e she was friends with and do what she wanted to do. He has no independence and she is very jealous and insecure, like a child. She totally controls him and dominates him. I think the world of my dad and through the years it has made me very angry but now i realise that this is what he accepts because he loves her and i cannot change his life for him.

I have noticed some similarities with others here:

The perceived 'weaker' other half who is besotted.

The 'Keeping up with the Jones's ' respectabilty.( My mum was a pillar of the local church for years then would go home and tell me at the age of 14, that my dad was useless, pathetic and gay. The money they have now is because he worked his arse off and she has always had the option whether to work or not and an easy life.)

Complete inabilty to apologise and admit she was wrong. (She recently apologised to my DH on Christmas Day for a nasty passive aggressive remark she made. I was amazed - not heard her do that in 43 years, she must be mellowing!)

Extreme Martyrdom - no one knows how hard she suffers. The depression has now resurfaced as horrendous hypochondria and constant visits to her GP and the hospital.

Wanting to be the centre of attention. My mum has what she calls her 'funny turns' at particular moments.

Selective memory - tells everyone she never had to raise her hand to me because i was so good. (She regularly beat me up and down the stairs and chased me round the glass table.)

There are some key things she has said to me in the past that i will never forget and she particularly ruined my Graduation day when i made a special effort to buy tickets for a meal for us all and i was in tears actually waiting to go on stage to collect my degree. (WTF?)

I'm not going to drone on any more but i think i understand her a little better since having my children and sometimes she can be fine, even likeable - then revert back to type.

I've come to the conclusion that it's right when they say you cannot change a person but what you can change is how you react to them - and i'm working on it.

Thanks to all for sharing their stories on here and i wish you strength and happiness in your lives.

[Lemonylemon]

My OH died when I was nearly 6 months pregnant. I already had DS who was 10. My Mum went on holiday the night he collapsed - which was OK, she did ask if I wanted her to stay. Thinking that he was going to recover, I told her to carry on with her holiday. But, 8 days later, he died. She didn't come back for another 10 days, when she did she texted and was "too tired" to talk to me. My DD didn't see much of her GM for the rest of my maternity leave.

She doesn't see very much of her now either....

Oi keep posting, it really does help to get it out. I started, then stopped, then started again and am now processing much more.

Hopefully, you will start to feel a bit like a weight has been lifted soon.....

[oiwheresthecoffee]

Hi , im back.
Just wanted to say thanks for letting me vent , its weird but i feel uilty about saying these things.
Ive looked up narc before , i dont think she is , she can be very caring but theres something odd about a lot of her behaviour and responses. Its like she cant cope with anything bein different to what she expects it to be..or wants it to be.
I do love her but i cant understand her. I do think maybe she is ill in some way. Doesnt see things the same as other people..

[ally90]

Hi Oiwheresthecoffee,

She's a narc. Really. Nobody ever fits one box, we're all a combination of MH disorders, I tick narc/obcessive/and another...my mother can be kind hearted at times, but generally with other people, if it is with me its brief and because she's in a 'I'm a good person' mode.

You really really should be here. It brought me to tears you calling for you mum and it being too much for her. If either of my dd's did that I would be by their side hugging them and in tears with them. She should have been there

Keep posting :)

Allyx

[NHAN]

Does anyone know if there is a thread about abuse anywhere? I don't fit here and could do with some support

[fortoday]

NAHN- I don't i'm sorry maybe contact mumsnet hq?

my mom has been back in touch, she wants to see the kids, my counsellor says that she shouldn't really.

She is taking no responsibility, apparently the way she has behaved is due to me putting my mil first over xmas, and that my 4 year old is too young to remember my mom screaming at me and saying she is going to kill me and that i murdered my dad, she will apparently grow up and turn against me for poisoning her! Jesus christ.

Why do i still feel a pull that i shouldn't take her right to be a grandmother away- why do i feel guilty. Is it because she truely believes that having an open house of christmas day incase my inlaws were on their own (they have a daughter with severe ocd who was likely to cancel christmas morning and also on xmas eve my fils mother was rushed to hospital and revived 4 times) how could i possibly close my doors! deserved that kind of abuse infront of my children?

I feel so stressed, so tired from it all. Am I frightened to completely cut her out because I will feel orphaned but having her in my life controlling everything is that really an option i want??

[fortoday]

just recieved a phone call from my mom, these are the reasons why she exploded on new year- (although still 'can't remember what she said)

• I was the reason for their divorce
  
• I chose to go to with my dad
  
• I didn't offer her any of my fathers inheritance (they had been divorced 5 years) I was 23 at the time just buried my father who died of catastrophe death due to alcholism
  
• I didn't contact her for 6 weeks after his funeral- his funeral that she didn't attend
  
• I always put my mil first
  
• My mil was at her house of the morning od my wedding as she was caring for the 6 bridemaids from her side of the family who were under 5
  
• I put my mil first at christmas (please read my full thread as thats nonesence)
  
• The card for xmas i sent her from my girls didn't have a picture inside they drew
  *
  
  she asked me whether the last 8 weeks had been easier for me because i didn't have to walk on egg shells- I said yes- brutal but honest- at least she is aware she does that to me
  
  along with all of that she told me to admit that i destroyed her marriage, that my dh and i fight (we don't even raise voices, i'm all to aware of what that did to me as a child plus dh is horizontal) that i scream at my kids (eh??!)
  
  she finished the call with a threat of- your children will get older and choose me!! I retorted by saying that I would have had trouble posioning them against her these past few months as her name has hardly been uttered in our house- goodbye
  
  God its not even lunch time yet- oh yes forgot to say i had the 'all i have done is for you, why can you be so horrible, then angerily telling me i should respect her, i am a bitch, i am pig headed blah blah' 40 minutes worth!
  
  she said finally i should go and see to my dd2- who may i add was playing with blokes quietly in another room as she would need me- WTF what the hell does she know about my kids needing?? After what she put them though!
  
  Vent over! xxx

[fortoday]

god meant blocks not blokes!!!!!!!!!!

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

She's a poisonous witch, fortoday.

You can hang up on her whenever you feel like. You can even grace her with an "I don't want to listen to this anymore" before putting the receiver down, if you feel inclined to give a reason.

Reading these posts, I really could be reading descriptions of my own mother.