Is SGB around?

[spiderslegs]

Open relationships - tell me more.

SGB "You (and other people) are coming from the mainstream privilege position of insisting that because your lifestyle is OK it mustn't be questioned, and any questioning of the mainstream or majority position is a shocking attack on you personally and it's just... waaa! WRONG."

Errrrrrrrr- you must learn to read more carefully!

About 2 posts back I said that I was completely relaxed about any lifestyle choice- it's up to the individual.

I admit I don't understand your use of the word "privilege" . My own lifestyle and marital status is a choice , not an accident of birth.

I also said then, and many posts back, that monogamy is not 100% perfect and no one who is in it would say it was. Feel free to question it as much as you like. I have already made it crystal clear that it does have its faults- as does any way of living.

I don't feel attacked personally by you. I am not defending monogamy. I have no need to.

So your assumptions- above- are completely wrong.

Your views against monogamy are widely known on here though SGB. OP could very easily have sent you a private message, but instead preferred to attention seek (because that is how I see this type of thread).

AmeliaGrey: a link about privilege in the sense I used it here. Though the piece linked to is referring to heterosexual privilege (and there are similar essays on white privilege, male privilege etc) it should give you the idea.

So SGB, if Ive read this thread right then you are not in a relationship and having an open relationship. You are single and 'non monogomous' because you have multiple partners. Well surely that the case for every other single woman on the planet??

With regard to to the OP, I just feel really sorry for her husband. They both took marriage vows and now he must feel like the OP thinks theres something missing in their marraige. The poor bloke will probably be wondering whether she wants to shag his mates every time he goes to the pub. Its a completely different situation from agreeing on an open realtionship from the outset.

I really dont care how others live their lives. I can say though that I know 2 couples that had a so called open relationship, in both cases it was the man driving this along and the woman going along with it, and in both cases the couples were miserable

SImoneD: At present I am not engaged in any kind of couple-relationship, however I have, in the past, engaged in open relationships and even monogamous ones.

I think it's a bit unfair to say that SGB can't have an opinion because she's not in a relationship. If monogamy doesn't work for her, and she makes sure all her sexual partners know that, then it's really none of our business.

And as someone who has been in a monogamous relationship for a long while now, and expects to be in one for the rest of my life, I do feel that monogamy is set up as the end all be all. Which it is, for me. But it might not be for everyone.

If monogamy doesn't work for her, and she makes sure all her sexual partners know that, then it's really none of our business

Cheerful yank I think thats the whole jist of this thread. The OPs partner didnt know this. He said he'd rather die than consider it when the OP suggested it. I just dont think its fair to change the goalposts on someone when youre in a marraige with children, its a recipe for misery.

Oh, I agree as far as the OP's concerned. I just meant for SGB. :)

This is becoming a little akin to Chinese Whispers. i.e. the meanings of posts become distorted as other people change the meaning ever so slightly and you end up with 2+2=5.

If you happen to be referring to my posts about SGB not being in a couple relationship, and an open relationship pertains to couple relationships, then I think it's fair to say that the OP should have made it an "open" post.

This is not the same as saying SGB or anyone else is not allowed to have an opinion.

FWIW although I am now married, I had an open relationship for some time in my mid-late 20s. I also had non monogamous relationships then too.

I suspect that most women have had 1 of these- the latter is called "dating"! without there being commitment or exclusivity.

OP I really don't see why you needed to ask anyone for an opinion or advice.

Your Dh has made it clear how he feels. If you sought opinions to somehow validate your own wishes for an OR then I think you are missing the point. What matters is how you and he feel. What anyone else has done with their lives, or their own morality, is totally irrelevant, because we are not you, and we are not in your marriage.

I suspect you will do whatever you choose- which I think means at some point you will be unfaithful, with or without your DHs knowledge or acceptance.

THing is, if monogamy wasn't pushed so hard as the best option and indeed the only option, situations like the OP's would be less common. If all you hear when you are growing up and starting to date and have sex is that you should aim for a long-term monogamous relationship, you might not necessarily realise that it's not right for you until you've been in one for a while. And then, when you start to feel trapped and unhappy, it's harder to discuss the issue with your partner if everyone else is banging on about the superiority of monogamy and suggesting that to want to change your situation is wicked and selfish. Isn't it also selfish to insist that your partner remains in a monogamous relationship with you when s/he doesn't feel the same way? Don't both partners' feelings matter, at least to the point where they can be discussed?

I think it's pretty obvious that a 1:1 monogamous relationship is what most people in western societies aspire to, and has been for centuries. I can take you back to Chaucer if you like and "courtly love"- 1000 years ago.

But getting back to the OP_ what do you suggest if one person wants to move the goal posts in a relationship?

Talking about it is not necessarily going to make her DH feel he is able to accept that- so are there going to be 2 unhappy people- or just one and the otehr doing whatever they want?

Oh and by the way, monogamy is not pushed as the best and only option.

This is where you argument falls down. There are plenty of people like you who are happy to be single and have occasional sex with anyone who wants it. As I said above, most people want a 1:1 relationship- but not everyone.

I don't know why you feel the need to go on and on and on about this.

AmeliaGrey: FFS! 'Courtly Love' was not about monogamy, the whole set-up was the minstrel being besotted with the fair lady who was married to someone else.

What I suggest to people in the OP's situation is to talk and keep talking, see what arrangement you can thrash out between the pair of you or whether you find in the end it would be better to part. Because the other option is the restless partner ignoring and suppressing his/her feelings and either being miserable longterm, or having an affair anyway. A relationship in which one person is miserable is not sustainable indefinitely - no one is entitled to be happy in a relationship at the expense of the other person's misery. THe bottom line is, you either reach an acceptable agreement, you part as amicably as possible, or you part on dreadful terms.

SGM oh soz B well the convo has come full circle again, the OP has talked to other half (after she told us)he in no uncertain terms said NO she talked again he said NO (but a bit quieter and had to put on a bit of a 'sex show') bloody hell the answers NO then, Move on or Move out end of. Oh and plus the whole of the village knows now too...SGM (soz B) you are possibly one of the most narrow minded peeps on MN.. crikey how you ever relax enuff to have sex your arse is so clenched..

SGB- sorry you are wrong- that is a teensy weensy definition of some notions of it- but it's not the whole story.

The reason I mentioned it was that you bang on about monogamy and the desire for monogany as being a modern media-driven social construct/cult- when it has in fact been around for centuries.

It's funny how you seem to feel it's fine to criticise- and actually be very rude and offensive about monogamy on the whole- but I don't ever see anyone here picking holes in your lifestyle- swinging, multiple partners, transient relationships etc- which they could.

for what it's worth, I think SGB is TOTALLY CORRECT on this matter. Her historical and cross cultural points about monogamy and the family come from very well recognised research. The people who talk here about selfishness need to do some serioous introspection about what selfish means, and why in an individualistic society we denigrate 'selfishness' so much. This is not to say we must disregard others' feelings. Rather that we are in a society that tells us to think me me me and then when we do we get moralising.
The criticisms about OP wanting to have her cake an eat it too are also completely problematic. Why shouldn't we have our cake and eat it too? This is exactly what our society tells us to do all the time. So if some people manage to have open relationships that work then that's great for them.

I personally agree with the person who said earlier that an open relationship under late capitalism is like trying to have socialism in one country. I'm not sure it can work so well when possession and jealousy over other people is so powerful. I know my partner and i would ideally like open relationships to work, but both feel that in the here an now we couldn't make it work for us in a way that wouldn't be painful to both of us. Still, I applaud those who make it work.

And thanks SGB and others on here who've shown me that there is also a less conservative side to mumsnet relationships board.

sillybum Have you actually read the thread?

The criticisms about OP wanting to have her cake an eat it too are also completely problematic. Why shouldn't we have our cake and eat it too?

FFS- have you really read what her DH says?

We should not have our cake and eat it because it will make another person unhappy. We are married to that person and are supposed to love and care for them.

Is that easy to understand?

Or should her DH simply say "Do what you like dearie I don't mind- after all, you must have your cake at be able to eat it too."

Amelia I'm not sure she said it was modern or media driven? Monogamy has been around for many thousands of years - that much has been shown by anthropologists and historians. Don't think it's ever been debated that it's been something some humans have done for a very long time.

I thought you knew what swinging meant? Why do you keep mentioning it on this thread? Confused.

AmeliaGrey here.

You've shot yourself in the foot with that one.

SGB I am not bothering to click on the link simply because I have done my own research and I actually lectured on the subject at one time.

It's also a waste of time getting into any discussion with you due to your narrow-mindedness and unwillingness to engage in points you simply want to avoid discussing.

Ike, admit it... you just fancy OP's husband and are jealous of her house...

Lots of arguments floating round, but to those who say it's unfair on the husband to voice these thoughts, then on that one I disagree. The OP has stated it has improved communication, despite the initial shock, and surely being able to talk about everything is a sign of a good, solid relationship. There would have to be a lot of insecurity from the male perspective to extrapolate a discussion around these things to meaning the OP wants to 'shag all his mates' as one poster stated.

Certainly when my wife raised the issue it was not the first thing I expected the conversation to be about, and the immediate reaction is surprise - but I am very glad indeed she felt able to discuss her thoughts and feelings with me rather than smother them through some misguided attempt to save my feelings/not rock the boat. It then allows both persons feelings/preferences to be taken into account and the essence of a relationship is to come to an agreement within those parameters. That could just as easily result in no change at all to the relationship as it does ending up in an open one.

AmeliaGrey: So you've done your own research that contradicts everything else on the internet? Good effort. Do you believe in creationism and the 'natural' inferiority of women as well?

coming to this late ( and in disguise!) and wanting nothing to do with the argument.
I do find it odd just how MUCH it bothers people when you choose to do something that works for you but not for them.. be it monogamy or poly( in it's numerous,varied and fun forms!).
There's something to be said for being brave enough to live your own life and acknowledging that- yes this is a cliche, but they exist because they contain a universal truth- life is too short to live for other people.
We are each responsible for our actions,not for others' lives.Most people will acknowledge that the we live in an individualistic society and yet as soon as any sign of individual behaviour becomes apparent , the witch hunts begin.
SGB- I wish MMN had a 'like' sticker so I could stick it on all the sensible things you've said.:-)
From experience , the importance of talking and talking and talking cannot be overemphasized.Be honest with all involved ,especially with your own self.
Done right i.e openly and honestly ,It can be the most amazing life !

SGB I didn't and haven't opened your link but if I did I doubt it would refure everything said on the internet on that topic.

As for the other things- yeah...sure. You love attention and can't let go. I am off out of this thread now.

Byeeee, Amelia! See you somewhere else when perhaps you can tell us that you've done enough research to prove that the pope doesn't shit in the woods and bears aren't catholics.