Can Asperger's look like emotional abuse?

[NotThemCrows]

I posted on here last week, concerned about my DHs behaviour. I have read the Lundy book (fantastic- huge thanks to all those who pointed me in that direction) and recognised some of the stuff in there.

Last night I had a 1 to 1 session with our Relate counsellor for the first time (had about 4 sessions together and DH had one by himself 2 weeks ago) and she thinks that my DH may have Aspergers.

This does make a lot of sense to me, he is socially awkward, no empathy, no emotional awareness etc.

Could his major problem be Aspergers?

I was just wondering if any else has difficulties with an Aspergers DH that feels like EA.

Either way he still has anger issues, has demonstrated unacceptable behaviour and I have totally had enough of his bs and want a separation.

I am just trying to make sense of it all (or am I making excuses?)

Thoughts please

He is still very upset/tearful etc. He can't see the need to protect our dc's from seeing him sobbing either, which has been making things harder.
We had a relate session last night and he seems to be starting to accept my need for some time apart (thank goodness). He was certain that now we have some sort of explanation for our past difficulties, we can just move on and deal with stuff, despite me explaining (repeatedly) that things have been so difficult for me that I started emotioanlly detaching a couple of years ago.

I think you have to read into his reaction "wow that was a near miss, if I pretend there's nothing wrong hopefully she'll just forget there ever was anything wrong".

And really he ought to be thinking "that's really helped to explain my situation, now I understand why we really shouldn't be living together."

I wonder if he's sobbing in front of the kids because he wants them to see how sad Mummy's made him, or whether he's doing it because he is Aspergers and doesn't understand the impact of his emotions...

sorrymy - thinking of you.

I have been thinking about the extent to which an AS/NT relationship is "whatever works"

For some AS/NT couples, living apart and having whatever sort of "dates" is suitable given the children's ages - like, whole family "dates", or just the couple, or whatever, and a couple of times a month or a couple of times a week. Or even that the AS partner pops in every day for supper and children's bed time, and then pops off to their own place to sleep and breakfast and go off to work from there. Whatever works.

For some AS/NT couples, it might be that they CAN live together, but it begins to be like a pressure cooker. So once a month or so, the NT parent is in charge of any children and the AS parent goes away for a long weekend, or the NT parent+children go away for a long weekend, to give everyone some breathing space. Or maybe the NT parent goes away with half the children and the AS parent stays home with the other half - just mixing it up. Whatever works.

For some AS/NT couples, it might be that they need to live a shift-life. When one is in charge of the children, the other is off at work or doing leisure, and they catch up together by telephone and when the children are asleep, so that the relationship can, as much as possible, be a two-body problem rather than the bewildering complexity of a four- or -five-body problem. Whatever works.

And some might manage a relationship that looks more like a conventional relationship with spending lots of their non-working time together and as a family. All power to those superstars. Whatever works (it wouldn't for us).

It's all just a question of getting from the Cassandra-affected relationship into something that works for both halves of the couple, and throwing convention out of the door to meet everyone's needs.

Upthread I said something about "5 years to mend a relationship", and someone else responded that children can't wait 5 years. For me it was a year or so from first realising that the relationship was in trouble to being in a position where either of us had the first idea what to begin to do about it. (a slow process of recognising the situation as untenable and miserable). And then from there it was a gradual process of improvement, where the arguments got less and less frequent, and more and more self-conscious (if you see what I mean - where each of us was increasingly conscious of our emotions and actions and the effect those were having on the other). We have not had a row in 6 months, and it's not because one or other of us is bottling up irritation. This was without any external help at all - I bet with an AS-specialist solution-based therapist, it'd be significantly faster.

horsetowater - I think that's a pretty harsh characterisation of sorrymy's Dh's possible thoughts at this point. Can't we give him benefit of doubt? It might be more supportive of sorrymy's family in the longer term if she does and we do too - much better chance of fixing the family dynamic to everyone's satisfaction if one assumes the good intentions of all those involved (and people can be surprisingly good at beginning to live up to the good intentions that one has been ascribing to them, however erroneously).

I agree - that was an NPD type explanation, horse

I can be so overwhelmed by depression that I am on a hair trigger for crying - and then I don't care who sees me. DF cries, he does tend to take himself off very rapidly into a room alone if so. (DM thinks men shouldn't cry, but I'm thinking particularly about DF crying when we had a 'landmine' situation - a row caused by our mutual misunderstanding - long after DM had left)

If your DH is like me the emotion is so overwhelming and the feeling of close-down so complete that we hardly take the world around us into account.

However, you could try having a family rule that no parent cries in front of the children (perhaps excepting bereavement)?

ie the parent goes to a room on their own to recover

sorry for multi-posts

I was offering a choice - an NPD/EA response and an Aspergers response. It is still very possible that OP is in an emotionally abusive relationship.

We established earlier that the pain that OP and her children feels is real and leading her into a state of ongoing trauma (Cassandra Syndrome) and OP has decided unsustainable. The horse has bolted. Making a rule about crying won't help now.

Whyever not?

"so that the relationship can, as much as possible, be a two-body problem rather than the bewildering complexity of a four- or -five-body problem. Whatever works."
that's a really interesting way of looking at it.

We have already arranged a "family date" for sunday, taking the dc's swimming, that just sort of came naturally. I find the idea of "whatever works" very positive and freeing.

I am aware that there may still be a possibility of EA, or an ASD/EA combo. At the moment, I am focussing on the AS element as that is ringing particularly true. Hopefully, having some space will enable me to gain some clarity over the extent to which EA has or hasn't been present in our marriage.

I will be seeing my DH, he hasn't completely bolted just yet as he will be coming back next week to look for a flat locally. A no-crying rule would be useful, I already try not to cry in front of the dc's, he would probably need a rule.

How do we find an "AS-specialist solution-based therapist"? we are in the midlands.

Well, Maxine Aston (AS couples work book lady - trying to imagine getting my OH to work through that with me is hilarious!) is in Coventry

www.maxineaston.co.uk/couple_counselling/

If that was a long way away, she'd be the sort of person who could get you in touch with someone closer. What luck that the one AS-specialist counsellor I've heard of is in the midlands - now you just have to say you live in Warwick or something and we'll all know it is Meant To Be. :)

sorry - proper linky: here

Leonie - you are seriously outnumbered there! Can you leave them all to it sometimes, with a screen each and some headphones, and go out for lunch with girlfriends?

horsetowater - it might well look like an emotionally abusive dynamic from the outside. But if there is NO INTENT TO HURT - and it's very possible there isn't if there is an AS partner in the couple, whatever the anecdotage looks like to the NT world - then there a is very different prognosis from an NT/NT emotionally abusive relationship, and a very different trajectory for moving to happiness for everyone in the family.

The path to mending a dysfunctional AS/NT relationship is a matter of collaborative self-education and healing, which the partner-who-might-look-as-if-they-have-been-abusive will very likely want to embark on once they get the message about the damage that the present dynamic is doing/has done.

NT/NT experiences, norms, solutions, expectations - bin the lot - we're through the looking glass here.

IMO.

Maxine Aston diagnosed my ex as having Aspergers. We'd already had relate counselling (useless) and individual therapy where I kept saying our relationship felt abusive so I understand where this is coming from.

My ex was kind and thoughtful to people but only when he recognised what they were going through, ie he'd had the same experiences.

He couldn't begin to empathise with me over anything. The whole relationship almost drove me to suicide.

My Dh is probably ASD: works in IT, very structured approach to life, cannot adapt to change or change his responses to certain situations, he is emotionally detached, cannot take any criticism. He is lovely, kind, simplistic, loyal but distant. He cannot handle any emotional displays and will completely shut down in situations that he finds too demanding. He is not able to give me emotional support unless I direct him and he is 'unable to know what I want even when I explain' (his words).

One of the things that masked these traits was the fact that we did not live together before getting married as we lived a long distance apart 3.5 travel hours apart.

What has 'worked' is the fact he is very interested in his work, his obession I guess. His work takes him away from home for a significant part of each month.

He is relatively easy to live with, has no anger issues, in fact I would say the opposite is the problem. I know what to expect from him in terms of his responses. The children love him very much as he has a childlike quality that they can identify with. He loves the children very much (his other obession) and is very generous with them with his time and financially, perhaps too generous financially sometimes.

We have discussed the possibility of him having ASD and he is not overly concerned to have a formal diagnosis. What difference would it really make to his/our life?

I find that it has taken me a long time to come to terms with who he is and the relationship that we are able to have. This has improved things alot, I do get lonely and feel sad that I will not have the kind of emotional connection I would have like but on the other hand I am probably too far a 'Cassandra' to be good in a regular NT/NT relationship now. :)

I understand where Horse is coming from, because EA is so hard to identify (by its very nature) and makes people doubt themselves. It is likely that, because I have mentioned the possibility of EA on this thread, and then found an alternative explanation, people will assume that I am actually in an EA relationship and currently experiencing a period of denial.

I am pretty sure that, in my case, the existence of undiagnosed AS in my DH has looked and felt similar to an EA relationship, with similar symptoms (anxiety, depression etc due to OTRS) - we are indeed "through the looking glass"

Ommmward - not Warwick, Birmingham

Leonie - crumbs - that does sound lonely - maybe we could have a midlands AS/NT relationship quiche.

Zuzu - that sounds like that relationship was really tough but I totally understand how difficult it was for you

Hugs can be sort of painful to some with AS (not me, I wonder if it's gender related). I didn't fully realise till in the landmine situation described re DF and me, I tried to offer a hug and he really really did not want one.

It would only be demeaning to have to ask for a hug in an EA relationship. If your OH can't tell you need a hug, what other option is there but to ask?

Though I do know what you mean Leonie, it hurts having to ask. But maybe not so much if he does then give you a hug when asked. You could try 'asking' by advancing towards him with your arms out?

Oh dear, but if he finds it painful/awkward then it is meaningful. It means he loves you enough to try to give you a hug, even though he finds it v uncomfortable.

But I expect even he can work out that saying he can't hug you might be taken the wrong way and be v hurtful to you.