Can Asperger's look like emotional abuse?

[NotThemCrows]

I posted on here last week, concerned about my DHs behaviour. I have read the Lundy book (fantastic- huge thanks to all those who pointed me in that direction) and recognised some of the stuff in there.

Last night I had a 1 to 1 session with our Relate counsellor for the first time (had about 4 sessions together and DH had one by himself 2 weeks ago) and she thinks that my DH may have Aspergers.

This does make a lot of sense to me, he is socially awkward, no empathy, no emotional awareness etc.

Could his major problem be Aspergers?

I was just wondering if any else has difficulties with an Aspergers DH that feels like EA.

Either way he still has anger issues, has demonstrated unacceptable behaviour and I have totally had enough of his bs and want a separation.

I am just trying to make sense of it all (or am I making excuses?)

Thoughts please

There's a whole lot wrong with the counsellor suggesting it ThePinkPussycat. The counsellor is in a position of trust, where he/she is supposed to listen to the client and help them work through problems. Handing out guessed diagnoses is way beyond that remit. The OP has started questioning herself since the counsellor said it, which is not helpful as she can't get a proper diagnosis for her husband and so she's just left wondering and confused. That is far from helpful IMO.

You seem to have spectacularly missed the point Thepinkpussycat.

If someone's behaviour is emotionally abusive then they ARE an emotional abuser and god help us if we go down the line of abusers are just wired a little differently.

...because a counsellor should not give such a sweeping statement on the basis of something about a person, taken from information second hand. It is no substitute for seeing that person. Is she trained in autistic spectrums? I just this pop psychology that everyone scatters around. We might as well say all Gemini men are abusers - it makes as much sense. Human beings are complex and yes, abusive men are abusive.

To diagnosis anyone, you need first to have that person IN THE ROOM, to talk to them over a long period of time and be trained in that specific area.

Cats I thought my dad was cold and unfeeling thorughout my childhood. I wasn't even sure he loved me. He would react to problems with us children and DM by sulking for days, or by going into meltdown. I don't believe he was being abusive, I think he has AS, and I am so relieved about that.

It's ok for a counsellor to say someone's an abusive twat without seeing them, is it? FFS they weren't giving a diagnosis of AS, just suggesting a possibility.

Does OP's partner have face blindness? hyperlexia? dispraxia? difficulty in timing conversation? in making small talk? I do, my DF does, these are some of the reasons I think we have AS.

No the counsellor shouldn't say he's an abusive twat either. The counsellor isn't there to make judgements on anyone. He/she is there to listen, to explore the OP's feelings, to help her to come to some sort of understanding of her situation, but if he/she starts saying things like "Your DH is abusive," or "Your DH might have AS" then clearly she's a crap counsellor who thinks it's her role to tell the OP her opinions.

I think it's ok for a counsellor to discuss someone's abusive behaviour without seeing them and for them to help the person on the recieving decide how to deal with the situation. I doubt very much that a counsellor would say "your dh is an abusive twat you should leave" and I wouldn't expect them to. I would expect them to help the OP see what behaviours are abusive and unacceptable though.

My issue is that it seems to be a very common theme on MN these days (not just this thread or the OP original thread) for people to throw around AS diagnosis in relation to some awful behaviours. I think this is very damaging and unfair to those with AS that people are making the suggestion that they are potentially abusive because of it or that they are cold and unfeeling people.

"Autistic men are not abusive. Abusive men are"

I would agree with the above comment made by VeryLittleGravitas.

Notthemcrows - Joint counselling is NEVER adviseable anyway where there has been any ongoing abuse of any type. Abusive men can use such joint sessions to manipulate the counsellor and dominate the session to make it all out to be their partner's fault.

If you continue counselling notthemcrows I would suggest you find another counsellor sharpish and have counselling solely.

Nothemcrows, I have an very interesting article on this, but can't format it on here.
If you are interested PM me your email address.

My DH fits very well, is improving, but might be too late

I agree Cats. Say for example the OP said "My DH shouts in my face and calls me names," the counsellor isn't there to sit back and say "Well that's abusive," she's there to say "Why do you think that is?" "Do you think he's justified in doing that?" "How does it make you feel?" etc. Handing down judgements and diagnoses doesn't encourage the OP to think and talk about what's going on, it shuts down the conversation as it seems that the counsellor has just made up her mind what the situation is.

I know they are not cold and unfeeling people - at least if DF and I are anything to go by (no, we have no official diagnosis, though I have tried to get an assessment for myself). I am agreeing with you cats, really!

You say: I think it's ok for a counsellor to discuss someone's abusive behaviour without seeing them and for them to help the person on the recieving decide how to deal with the situation.

Absolutely. And the way to deal with the situation would surely be different if the behaviour stemmed from EA, than if it was rooted in AS?

You say: I doubt very much that a counsellor would say "your dh is an abusive twat you should leave" and I wouldn't expect them to.

My point (and maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase 'abusive twat') is that people seem to think that it's ok for the counselling to proceed on the premise that the behaviour is abusive (in the usual sense). When something else might be going on.

Sorry pussycat. What you've said about your df, says abusive not asd. Sometimes it's hard for people to accept their loved ones are abusers.

So asd disorders have become the self diagnosed explanation. When it's actually really damaging to those with asd. As its just seen as the latest excuse for bad behaviour and to claim dla. Self diagnoses do really affected people lots of harm.

The comment princess came out with was ridiculous, I'd love to see the statement which backs that up as fact.

But there are a loads of undiagnosed adults around, most of them unaware that they are on the spectrum. So what, if some other counsellor suggests it? and it helps them. They are not making a diagnosis.

it has helped me enormously since I have found out I am probably on the spectrum, as suggested by my son's ep.

Thank fuck she did otherwise I would still be walking around wondering why I am such an odd ball with zero social skills.

Autistic men/women are just people, some abusive, some not.

Pussycat

As I posted earlier, it's perfectly possible that your father is both abusive and on the spectrum. They're not mutually exclusive.

It's also worth bearing in mind that if he is abusive, then that abuse is not borne of autism, but is separate and unique.

Don't people bother reading posts on MN any more?

she thinks that my DH may have Aspergers. - she thinks he may isn't a diagnosis. She's outlining a behaviour pattern.

I had a 1 to 1 session with our Relate counsellor for the first time (had about 4 sessions together and DH had one by himself 2 weeks ago) - The counsellor has met OP's H five times, including a one-to-one session.

"Many abusive people are pd. Not all, but many are on the spectrum" - She said PD, not ASD. Autism is not the only spectrum!

FWIW, Crows, I agree with those who say the question is whether you can live happily with his behaviours or not. There is a very big advantage to labelling a maladaptive behaviour pattern, though: Once you embrace the idea that his behaviours are caused by a condition of the mind - whether AS or PD, terminal twattishness, or something else like a head injury - you'll be relieved of the feeling he could change and/or you should be helping him change.

In my experience, that feeling is what keeps you clinging on to a soul-destroying relationship. If change isn't going to happen, for whatever reason, you're free to use any labels you like if they help you to grasp the reality.

Wishing you luck - and more considered relies

I had one client sent to me at a drug and alcohol project. He had an undiagnosed Aspergers condition which he used to get off a charge of drunk and disorderly. in actual fact he had drunk a bottle of vodka with a range of other stuff, as had is non aspergers girlfrend. They then engaged in a round of fisty cuffs, hysteria and abuse of the staff on the plane. The flight they were on had to be diverted to eject them.
THe magistrate gave him the benefit of the doubt, once he brought up the Aspergers bit. i was furious and he was delighted, once the charges were dropped, I never saw him again.
Make of that what you will.

When I mean undiagnosed, I really meant self diagnosed or more acurrately his mum said it. another point the magistrate did not query too much on.

garlic

The relate counsellor didn't "outline a a behaviour pattern", she was airing her prejudices and misconception of ASD.

Behaving like an abusive arse does not feature anywhere in the Triad of Impairments. The emotional issues outlined in the OP don't fit with autism either. There are too many people out there who's first reaction to an individual with empathy issues is to label them as autistic, rather then as having a personality disorder, which is far more likely.

The reason myself and others are sounding a touch snippy is that we have to confront this prejudice on a daily basis. We are not sociopaths or robots. We can 'do' empathy, and we are no more likely to be abusive then your average neurotypical.

But I have had meltdowns, and raged, or gone all quiet and hurt? I wasn't being manipulative, I agree the effect is abusive, the intent was not, at the time I felt I had no choice in my behaviour. I'm sure DF didn't want to shout and weep, but he has done? These can be reactions to sensory or cognitive overload, or to not being believed.

What about all the other things I mentioned that are typical of AS (OP clearly said Aspergers?) Does OPs partner show any of them?

Not uncommon, lola. You couldn't make it up, but they invariably can - and get away with it

From what I've seen in rl and read on these boards, Relate counsellors rarely know jackshit about very much but, hey, at least this one had heard of Aspergers most probably through watching tv

lola I am [bshock] at the magistrate. Whether that person had AS or not, should not have come into it.

Firstly, I apologise for kicking up a shit storm/offending anyone. I did search for a similar thread before I posted but couldn't find one. I am not trying to pigeon hole people with ASD as abusers and I am sorry if anyone thought that.

Thanks garlicfrother for pointing out that the counsellor has met DH 5 times and spent an hour with him 1 to 1, I was just about to repeat that when I saw you had done so. She may have been unprofessional but I am glad she had the guts to say it because it really rings true.

My DHs behaviour doesn't actually fit with EA, he is loving, warm but often says things that I find hurtful (to his complete astonishment). He is not abusive, has never been verbally/physically abusive, never laid a finger on me or insulted me/sworn at me/criticised me etc . . .but the many, many hurtful comments e.g. "your hair looks nice, have you washed it?" have really upset me to the point where I feel like the recipient of low level EA

Having researched EA recently, it doesnt quite ring true for my DH. (Although he does have some anger management issues.)

He really struggles in social situations and has said so many, many inappropriate things that I squirm when when are in new situations together.

Disagreements are frustrating because he rarely understands my viewpoint.

He finds it hard to work out what other people are thinking/feeling.

He is inflexible.

He needs very fixed structures and routines etc.

I often have to interpret the world for him ("that email/text means ..., they want/expect you to ... " etc) and also to explain what he really means to other people etc

Thanks to everyone who has responded, I apologise again, if anyone has been offended by this thread.

I was with my ex-DH for 8 years and I now recognise that he has AS.

We had a DS together who has been diagnosed with AS and when this happened everything fell into place.

Shortly after DS was born ex-DH and I split up and I would have to say Emotional Abuse was the main reason for the split.

Whether or not it would have worked out had I know that the EA was down to a specific problem is another matter. Even if I had made allowances for his cruel/cold behaviour I don't think I could have stuck around. For me, life is too short.

Your DP telling you "your hair looks nice, have you washed it?" isn't an insult, it's a compliment. If you're taking it offensively to the extent you're thinking it's low level EA you might want to examine your own past for reasons you might take it as such, rather than expecting him to change. What would you prefer? He didn't say anything when he thought your hair looked pretty?

There was a fairly recent thread on a similar topic, OP.

FWIW DM spent 34 years in the marriage. She always said she couldn't face him being in the house all the time after he retired. She knew it would hurt him, but she left, aged 55. His social skills have improved - as a relative said, he doesn't sit reading in the corner at family gatherings anymore - and he and DM still see each other and even go out to meals and things together. I admire them both actually, I think they have not made a bad job of the difficult hand life dealt them, in their separate ways.

And 21, you're right, that is a compliment imho :)