first time domestic violence advice wanted

[J4J]

Should he stay or leave? I am so confused. I am married to a usually loving husband and have 4 small children. 2 days ago he became unusually angry and punched me in the face - I was knocked unconscious. It happened in front of all the children. When I came round my 4 year old daughter was holding me and crying shouting wake up. When I looked at her her first words were 'oh mummy I thought you were dead'. This is out of character for my husband. He was initially in denial and told me to get off the floor and stop pretending. It was not until my dad phoned him at work the following day and told him I was in hospital getting x-rayed that I think he realised what he did. This is a first offence so the police after arresting him when he got back from work released him with a caution. Do I let him stay in the house now. Part of me still loves him very much and another part of me is completely shocked and upset. I am really hurting inside and want things just to be normal. Statistically it may happen again but I'm not sure it will as he is a good man who needs to manage his anger but yet he knocked me out....

"I sense panic in the OP because her violent H was told he could stay with her parents until the weekend"

I missed this. he punches their own daughter hard enough to knock her out, make their 4yo grandchild think she's DEAD?

AND THEY ARE PUTTING HIM UP?

[horrified]

DON'T LET THIS 'MAN' BACK, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

He will never change, not when YOUR OWN PARENTS are backing him up

Which they are by tolerating his presence in their flaming house!

I am aghast.

maybe first but it will only be the last time he hits op if op makes sure he never in her house again. never alone with her and dc again.

wasnt the first time he manhandled the dc tho was it?
as op explained later she freuently had to stop him being rough with them.

It's pretty shocking that your parents are putting him up.
please do not let him back , especially as it seems he has shown no remorse.
good advice on here,

What is your mothers opinion of him OP?

I've just read back.

You called your DAD from hospital, he knows everything, has seen you hospitilised by this man and is STILL allowing him in his home...

If any one hospitilised my child, they would only be given room under the wheels of my ffing 4x4, not living in my house, drinking my tea and stealing my oxygen.

WTF does your DAD think he's doing?

The ONLY (infinitesimally thin) sliver of a chance that a man that has abused (even 'only' emotionally) will STOP abusing is if he loses everything, and not one person stands by him or condones him in anyway.

Any less than utter rejection, they will justify it to themselves to continue.

Read Lundy Bancroft's book, he explains it in longer form there.

J4J, your H has hit you so hard as to put you in hospital, being x-rayed. He could have killed you with that single punch and your children would be preparing to bury their mother, continuing on life with a man that has killed their mother, once he gets out of prison that is.

I know this is all a terrible shock for you and you are thinking that it's not THAT bad.

But it is. It IS really that bad. Your father is giving house room to someone that could have killed you. He is providing support to a man FAR FAR FAR more dangerous than the one I asked to leave my home a year ago.

your parents have put him up in there house????
THIS MAN HOSPITALIZED YOU AND THEY WILL PUT HIM UP????

If it was me, and it was my daughter who had been abused i would have him under the wheels of my 4x4.
Not under my parents roof eating my food and sleeping in the bed we used to share.

I've just come back to this thread.

Op - in your op you said he is a loving man and this was the first time anything like this had happened.

Except then you went on to say that he is controlling, emotionally abusive and that he pushes the kids around.. so although unexpected, this wasn't a jekil and hyde (sp?) type situation was it? this was a question of a man who is emotionally abusive already pushing that boundary to its very limit and then stepping over it into physically abusive.

You said:

"he is a good
man. He is so caring usually towards me and the children. He often cooks, builds huge lego things with the boys etc." And when the boys grow up, what do you think they will think is the norm? To cook the dinner - yes let's hope so. To interact with and play with their children - absolutely let's hope so. To knock their partner unconscious - oh yes, they'll think that's normal too. He is their role model - what kind of example is he setting them?

And your four year old daughter who thought that her mummy was dead? What happens next time? Next time she might think her mummy is dead, and the time after that, and maybe even the time after that. But there will come a time when she won't think that, because the norm is for her mummy to be knocked unconscious and to then wake up again and carry on as if nothing has happened. So one of the "next" times that this happens she may not be so affected by it. not think that her mummy is dead after all, and not pay much attention. And then one day the norm won't happen, she'll be expecting her mummy to wake up and carry on, but she won't - her mummy will be dead.

I actually think that there are some instances where someone can snap and lash out and it be a one off incident. A slap perhaps, grabbing someone too firmly and frightening them, that sort of incident. If my dh slapped me I wouldn't stand for it and it would be over, but I can see that it could happen in a heated discussion where one partner loses control and lashes out like that, regrets it bitterly and it never happen again.

But not in this instance. Not where, as a first time lashing out he knocks his partner unconscious and then shows no remorse at the time until he is thrown out of the marital home.

You say you love him. why? How can you love a man who is abusing your children? Because to abuse their mother in front of them is abuse.

It doesn't matter how loving he was before this. He doesn't love you, and he doesn't love his children. Any man who did wouldn't do this to them.

I was under the impression that OP asked her parents to put him up. Not that that excuses it, if I were them I would give him a list of travelodges and send him on his way.

J4J If my son squeezed my hand that hard I wouldn't think he wanted me to show how strong he was, I would think he was scared and needed reassurance from me. You need to show your dc that you are strong and stand up for them and yourself. Don't let him back in the house, he hasn't even shown an ounce of remorse, he is just feeling sorry for himself.

Hope you and the children are ok.

Great post wannaBe

J4J - I have to say that the fact that your parents are putting him up says an enormous amount about the way you are responding to this. They are all doing that middle/upper class thing in which DV simply doesn't happen to people like us. But look in the mirror. Your face tells you that's a big lie doesn't it?

I cannot imagine how betrayed and undermined you must feel by your parents' support for your husband.

The parental side of things is really sad. Is there anyway you can privately talk to them and let them know that you need their support and putting him up (even if it was your suggestion) is no longer appropriate and makes you feel excluded? and unsupported?

My parents were initially shocked when my marriage collapsed. They supported exH through the early stages and I let them. I didn't tell them anything.

Then he got nastier and tried to get them on his side so I gave them a history lesson of my marriage. Initially they did find it hard to absorb..... but then..... well they have been bloody brilliant.

They may need to be led by you? It's possible they are doing the same panicked reaction of 'how can we save this marriage' as you and feel having him in their house is just that support.

I was disgustingly middle classed who thought DV happened to other people

That taught me eh?

Toothbrush :(

No, sadly DV is no respecter of the size of your home or the quality of your bed linen

Am sad to say that I don't think the OP will be back to this thread.

Her H will be out her parents' house soon, and back in hers, and she won't want to justify her decision to all these women whose marriages and experiences of DV, in the OP's eyes, just aren't the same.

She's desperately clinging on to ythe idea that we don't know him and he must be the exception to the rule.

I just wish she could find the protective instinct that a mother has and use it to snap herself out of her delusions about her life.

CrystalsAreCool 'VicarinaTutu not that it's relevant, but i did a double take there too - but she actually says "It really is the first time he has hit me but with such force " I think she means it is the first time he's hit her, and she's shocked at how much force he used this first time'

Reading it like that makes it even sadder, OP being more surprised at the force of the hit than the hit itself :(

NoWay I think you are right.
Reading this thread has made me almost greatful that although my dad hit my mum, I was never scared for myself. I was only ever scared for her. I almost wished that he had hit me because my mum said that she would take whatever he did to her, but the minute he laid a finger on us he would be gone. In a fucked up way she thought she was doing her best.
OP your children must be so scared. Don;t be like so many other victims of DV and think your situation is different. It isn't

Like toothbrushthief this thread has affected my greatly and I put some thinking into why this was the case, why I care so much for someone I have never even met and am unlikely to. And I came to the following answer.

The majority of people on this thread have had experience of DV whether they were the victims or like me watched the people they loved being abused. I am on here constantly checking because this is the start, whether it's trying to justify my existance or whatever but if I can stop ANYONE going through this hell I may feel I have helped. It's like I'm trying to tell you to get off the train before it leaves the station, we all feel we know what it's like at the start of the journey and what will happen if the train leaves.

Sounds strange saying it like that but only way I can get it out.

God, I feel like I'm shouting and no one is listening. So can I just say:

My Dad - killed himself
My Mum - shadow of herself, won't say boo to a goose, runs from confrontation
Older sis - in a DV relationship for 14 years and now her son doesn't speak to her, years of counselling
Middle sis - in a DV relationship for 3 years and had to flee to a refuge with her son
Me - coming towards 20 years of counselling on and off, have slapped my husband twice very early on in the relationship and tested him to the extreme limits, something I am not proud of and got help for.

I don't think it is any coindidence at all coming out of an abusive relationship all the daughters of my father have gone into DV or practiced DV.

Don't do it for you. Do it for your children.

Exactly sparkle Exactly.

This carries on through generation after generation.

I know what you mean. I feel desperate for the OP and her children, just desperate. Because I know where this will go, and I can't bear it.

He hid your keys knowing that because of your visual impairment you would not be able to find them?
And that happened after he had hit you, after you had gone into another room, after your children were crying, and fighting him off, and hurting themselves in panic, and amidst all that he was capable of pulling that utterly despicable trick, using your impairement as his weapon?
That is just nasty. Very nasty indeed.

sparkle - you made my eyes wet

(which is good because I get dry eye)

I hope Op does come back regardless of her decision. I'd like to say to you OP that we do all understand...even if we don't agree with your decision.

I know you are overwhelmed

You are trying to turn the clock back. So is everyone else involved in this (parents and husband). You can't however. You can delude yourself for a period of time but even if he doesn't knock you unconscious again...he will behave abusively.

I've said this before but I'm saying it again. One violent physical act frightened me but I stayed because I couldn't believe he meant it and other excuses I had to make to mean I could live with my decision. The thing that did the most damage was the years after that when I spent my time trying to make life normal and not invoke irritation, anger etc Life is NOT meant to be like that. It's meant to be so that you smile. Please help yourself to get to that smiling day

wouldn't it be good if we could learn from one-another's mistakes? hands up all of us who stayed too long...or lived in a house where our parent stayed too long???? And are still daling with the damage done.......

I just wish the OP knew what we have all experienced

Lord I am worried about her children and also

I'm so sorry. You did the right thing telling your Dad and the police. I would also let his family know for added security. Don't let him back in, at least not until you have sought professional help. Particularly as he took a while to even see what he had done. If he suddenly hit you out of the blue then there is something going on and it needs sorting, and you probably need time to work out exactly how you feel, and your children need to be safe.

Look, none of us can know whether this particular person will do it again, or whether counselling would help. But you can't know he won't either.
So - why not separate, and then IF he wants to come back, and IF after a good long break for perspective you want him back, you can tell him he needs to show proof that he has taken effective steps to change. Proof that he has sought counselling as well as anger management, that he is genuinely sorry and owns every aspect of what he did. You could also consider some counselling too, to support you through this very traumatic experience and to give you the understanding and fluency to recognise unhealthyness in a relationship.

If he is sorry and wants to be with you, his feelings will endure through 6 months or a year of separation while he works on himself towards change. If he wants you to have him back without serious work and committment towards change, nothing WILL change and you will find yourself with less confidence, less of a sense of what is normal and happy.

OP: punching a partner is not acceptable, not EVER. Men do not own their partners, it is not a man's place, or his right, or his job, to hit his female partner for disobedience. It is not a man's right, or his job, or his place, or his duty, to expect obedience. Women are human beings, not domestic animals, not servants, not junior participants in the family who need to be owned and controlled. I think you have been told, more than once, that women need to please men, placate them, obey them, serve them and if a man is aggressive towards his female partner it's because she has been disobedient or disrespectful, and if she would only behave like a Proper Women she wouldn't get hit.

THIS. IS. BULLSHIT Your partner is a horrible, inadequate, spiteful human being. Show him no mercy, no understanding, no forgiveness. He has forfeited the right to any such thing. He is a failure as a human being and the loss of his home comforts and his family is the least he deserves. Protect yourself and your children, cut him loose, send him away and remember that it serves him right.

Great post solidgoldbrass

What you need to understand is that he could have have killed you, or you could have sustained permanent brain damage from his one punch, because to knock someone unconscious/senseless with one blow to the face/head takes a considerable degree of force.

That force temporarily interrupted the supply of blood to your brain causing you to lose consciousness. It also caused your brain to hit the back, and probably the front, of your skull before returning to its usual place.

After losing consciousness you fell to the floor risking further injury to your head/body.

If you have not sustained a broken jaw, nose, cheekbone, eye socket, perforated eardum, or fractured skull/bones from your fall, you have been extremely lucky.

What you need to realise is that he knows he may not be so lucky again, which is why the next time he punches you it will be in the solar plexus or the breast/chest area. The pain will be intense. You'll be doubled over in agony but you won't black out.

He'll be doubly sorry the second time he punches you, but it won't stop him doing it for a third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelth, thirteenth...and so on, because he now has a taste for it.

In fact, he won't stop punching you until you use whatever means are necessary for you to stop being his punchbag.

i doubt very much if the OP will be back tbh. Her husband will be back now

i hope that she is ready for the backlash from her children when they grow up.

my mother, will die alone.
she allowed me to be abused by my step father, who was nothing but a bully. he could only abuse the women and children in his life.

i have not seen her for 12 years.
i will never allow her back into my life.

i am posting now, not as a professional police officer, but as the child of an abusive relationship.

are you ready for this OP? your children will grown to hate you and your husband. They will feel betrayed and abandoned. They will find it very hard to forgive and will either go one of two ways - they will do what i did, pick a nice decent bloke and turn their back on everything they came from

or they will repeat your cycle, and in 20 years, you will be the parent, trying to advise your child on how to get out of a potentially life threatening situation.

your call.