To anyone who left a partner because of domestic violence, or it hoping to take that step...

[MmeLindor.]

Please read this moving article by Patrick Stewart and know that you have done so much to protect your children and that no matter how hard it was/is on them right now, they will always always love you for getting out.

Warning, it may well make you cry.

MmeLindor My ex didn't really interact with DD at all while we lived with him. He 'overlooked' her a lot of the time, it's easy to see now that if I hadn't have left she may well have grown up as insecure as I did.

When we left, because he had lost control over me, he was vicious in his intent to keep contact with DD, taking me to court, buying her gifts I couldn't afford, buying her a whole wardrobe of clothes that she wasn't allowed to bring home etc. DD is a wonderful, tough little thing, probably has more sense than me and didn't fall for any of it! She isn't interested in material possessions so wouldn't be bought.

For a long time he stuck rigidly to the court order but as time as passed and as he has started to move on, loosen his grip on me, his interest in DD has waned. He still see's her but if she ever chooses to cancel his weekend so she can stay with me he doesn't object. You see, he is the most important person in his life (apart from his mother but that's another story) all this Court Order business was just an attempt to 'win' over me but now, he is his main interest. I would say he goes through the motions with DD now. As she get's older I can see contact dwindling greatly.

Yes babyhammock, it does take a long time and you are right, we are conditioned to behave the way we do. It is the most liberating feeling in the World though when we are finally able to stop. I am my own person now, I don't live to please others and you know what, nothing bad has happened to me, in fact I would say I am more respected for it. My life is full of people with whom I have equal relationships because I won't allow anyone who tried to control or bring me down anywhere near me, and I have no problem telling them why

I can highly recommend counselling for you babyhammock, I had cord cutting therapy too, hypnosis, that was wonderful! That helped me greatly and i practised it for a long time after counselling had finished if ever I was having a wobble. That helped me deal with my feelings over my mother and my ex. I can also highly recommend you putting yourself first and either cutting contact with your parents or keeping it to a minimum. Perhaps take a month or so where you don't see them at all, it's the period of no contact where you gain strength, where you start to discover yourself. Some people, whether they are family or friends, are just not healthy to be around.

Timefor, I'm so sorry to hear what you went through as a child. I can totally relate to it. I also kept suicide as an option in the back of my mind.

I also grew up desperate for love, affection and a friendly face. And that desperation has led me into many bad relationships. Like you, I am only now learning to be more discerning and I have become quite ruthless in cutting out toxic people from my life.

As a child I used to escape as much as I could. Either physically by all but moving into my best freind's house. Or if forced to be at home I would read to avoid engaging with my family.

So, you should be so so so proud of yourself for making sure your DD does not suffer in the way we did. I don't know you but I have more respect for you as a mother than I ever have for my own mother.

I'm not working right now, but I used to be a lawyer. When I go back to work I want to work for Refuge or WA and do all I can to help women like you and their children.

jasmine you are a wonderful, lovely, person, I hope you know that?

I also escaped as much as I could, to a neighbours house, a woman who explained all about periods, boys, sex, makeup, growing up to me because my own mother was totally neglectful of me. I was petrified when I got my first period, I didn't have a clue what was happening to me and she shouted at me!

There are so many of us suffering because of our upbringing, so many of us falling into abusive relationships because of low self esteem as a result of abuse in our childhoods. Maybe that's where the starting point should be for educating people, not how to avoid abusive romantic relationships but how to raise children so the they have self esteem high enough that they will never be drawn into such a relationship. I know I keep saying this but my DD is wonderful, she knows exactly how her dad works, how is mother works and stands up to the pair of them. She doesn't allow herself to be controlled and that fills my heart with pride. I feel sure that when it is time for her to start dating she will have the ability to recognise healthy and unhealthy relationships and have the strength to turn her back on those that bring her down.

jasmine I would love nothing more than to work for WA. I do my bit now but on a voluntary basis. I am a member of a consultation group and I attend meetings, representing women who have experienced DV. I feel very passionate about it, there are so many changes that could be made, changes that should be made to help and protect women.

Timefor, what a lovely thing to say! I have tears in my eyes. I am starting to like myself a lot more these days. I used to hate myself, I felt I deserved to be treated badly.

And yes, my mother never told me about anything, periods, boys, nothing. I learnt it all from friends and school. And yet I know my mother still thinks she was a wonderful parent and she cannot understand why I want nothing to do with her. She lives in a complete fantasy about herself and our family. She can't/won't look at the reality of our broken, abusive, dysfunctional family. God I am so glad I got out.

I also feel hopeful that both my DC's will seek out healthy adult relationships. I treat them with respect and I hope they will automatically expect to be treated that way by others because it is what they have grown up with.

Well done for your volunteer work. It is also something I feel very passionate about. I wish I was well enough to start work myself. But I had a breakdown last year and have various health issues, all caused by the abuse and neglect I suffered for years. Once I am better though I will start with volunteering and hopefully in time will find a job with Refuge or WA.

What a thread - full of strong and amazing people.
I am currently doing a Law degree and am considering going into family law. I felt so let down at every step of the way legally when my ex was causing trouble. He got away with him & his wife threatening me, smashing up our car and windows in our house. He was never made accountable for any of those things and, because ds1 refused to see him for 6 months, he took me to court for access. The welfare officer said he was a nice, soft spoken person. Ex accused me of brainwashing ds in court - this was never challenged! In the end he ended up with exactly the same contact as he'd had before....I don't want anyone to ever feel as unsupported as I did.

But...ds1 has grown into a lovely man in a respectful relationship and I walk down the road with a smile on my face. I have a lot to be grateful for now.

Jasmine I am now 47 years old and it's only now that I can say I like myself. Actually, I bloody love myself these days I really do. I do hope that it isn't too long before you feel the same. Life is so much better on the other side.

My mother too always thought she was a perfect and wonderful parent. It was all outside appearances though. She would get complimented because she had four girls who were always well turned out. Nobody knew that half of it though. She was never a friendly person, didn't mix with other people or have many friends. I can't even remember her taking me to school, I used to go with a neighbour. She didn't 'do' parent's evenings or sports days either. It was a very a lonely childhood.

I'm so sorry to hear about your breakdown. I was very close to that myself after I left refuge, everything seemed to hit me like a ton of bricks. If it wasn't for DD I wouldn't have got up in the mornings. I used to take her to school then come home and lay on the sofa until it was time to go collect her again, plant a smile on my face until her bedtime and think sink back into the black hole. I thought I was never going to be happy again. I didn't feel like a person at all, I was just existing. BUT, one day I woke up and I actually smiled because I wanted to not because I was forcing myself to. It wasn't the end of the depression but it was the start of my journey out of it. I slowly started having more good days than bad and when I did slip back and have a terrible day I seemed to take a huge step forward in my healing. It really is a journey, it truly is a healing process that you do have to go through, there are no short cuts I'm afraid, you have to work through every single emotion but today I can tell you it is well worth it. I am a completely different person these days to the one I was and I finally love the person I am

lazarusb I'm so sorry you were let down by the legal system. I was prepared for that happening too, I was sure no one would believe me plus, I had a male solicitor and felt it would be a case of all boys together. I couldn't have been more wrong though. I almost fell in love with my solicitor, he was so wonderful I felt as equally supported by him and his firm as I did when in refuge, he saw right through my ex and could pre empt his every move. I finally started to feel in control, I finally started to feel I could have a life free of intimidated and threat. When my case(s) were over my solicitor told me he could see a difference in me, he told me I would fly, that The Ex would never ever have the same power over me again, and he was right!

Good luck with your studies, I am sure you will make a wonderful solicitor and many women will have the benefit of your knowledge and experience.

So many amazing stories. If you are lurking find strength from these.

I am 12 weeks out of an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship. The abuse has got worse since he left, and it was directed at me AND our DCs once they reached about 7/8 years old (not all of them had got to that stage, thank goodness).

I was the frog gently boiling away, and it was only when the abuse started on the children that I could see that what he did and said was abuse.

I hope and pray for better, the children went through an initial wonderful release. now they are angry and worried and fighting demons, the youngest wants her daddy back. And I just can't/won't do that.

I hope that some time in the future I can write like the amazing women above who have a life, happy children and are secure in the knowledge that they have provided a good space for their children.

If you are still in, don't stay, not for anything, but be prepared for a hard road and plan and stay safe.

Thank you Time. It's really nice to be able to break free, no matter how long it takes. My solicitor was female. I couldn't believe some of the things she said. If I was the person that I am now I would have laughed in her face then reported her!

foolonthehill you are an amazing and wonderful woman too, don't you ever forget that. You will also have happy and emotionally healthy children as a result of you breaking free from an abusive relationship, you can sleep easily knowing that your children won't experience what we have experienced, that they will have lives that are of their own choosing, not being dictated, not being controlled or abused.

Living in an abusive relationship is hard but you do develop some sort of immunity to it, you engage coping strategies. Once you have left you have to develop new coping strategies. The abuse doesn't end once you walk out of that door. Walking out is the start of something wonderful but there is much work to be done along the way. You are very much at the start of that process as are your children, what you are experiencing is all a part of the healing, every thing you feel now is taking you a step further away from the abuse and closer to your new life. It's bloody hard, and it's so bloody unfair that we have to go through all of this after leaving such vile situations but it does have it's place. You will look back on this time and feel proud of yourself and of your children for coping so well and for seeing it through to the end.

It is at this stage that many women return to abusive partners and I can fully understand why they do. Every single day I would have this little voice telling me it would be so much easier to go back, that I could develop a thicker skin and could cope but I had this even louder voice shouting "NO! just give it one more day, see how you feel tomorrow" and that is how I got through the really bad days, by seeing what tomorrow brought. In my heart I knew I had to stay away, I knew that for mine and for DD's sake I had to ride the storm but I will tell you, it did take a lot of strength. It's wonderful now, to be able to look back and feel so relieved that I didn't go back. It makes me smile. I do believe though that women need far more support than they get, it needs to be continued well past the stage of leaving refuge or leaving an abusive relationship.

lazarusb isn't hind sight a wonderful thing? Me being who I am now I would have to write to that solicitor and tell her the damage she did and suggest she gained some insight into domestic violence, failing that she should decline cases from women who need support. I am so sorry that you didn't have the support that I did, I cannot fault anything my solicitor did for me.

Jasmine I've been thinking about you since you posted, your situation has really touched me. I also think that the reason your mother didn't protect you from your father's abuse is because in a more subtle way and less recognisable to you, your mother was also guilty of abusing you. By neglecting you, starving you of love and affection she was causing you great emotional harm, she didn't protect you from your father because she was colluding with him, she can't give you answers to your questions or apologise for her behaviour because she doesn't accept she has done anything wrong, she isn't taking responsibility for abusing you or failing you, she feels no shame or sorrow for what she has done, she evades responsibility by speaking only of herself.

My heart goes out to you jasmine and I implore you to divorce yourself from this woman. Totally separate yourself from her, do not allow her to steal any more of your life than she already has. Even the anger you feel, she isn't worthy of. This woman is not worthy of any of your feelings whatsoever.

You have done so well to grow into the wonderful woman that you have, to not allow your upbringing to have a negative effect on your choices of romantic partner. You should be very proud of yourself, I don't know you jasmine but I am proud of you!

Thank you so much for sharing your stories on this thread. It is early days yet for me, I have the meeting with Cafcass coming up this week. I cam completely relate to some of the feeling described by Time regarding this wobbly stage of the separation. My solicitors are meant to be DV specialists but I am not sure about how much damage some of their advice is likely to cause.

When you are legally funded, your options are really restricted and you can go on acquiring knowledge endlessly which they will not be interested in sharing with you.

It seems too cruel that a child who despises what his father did to him, has to go through the pointless ritual of hearing his abusers voice every week and tell him not to call again, only to have to go through it again the following week. In the early days of contact, I really took the blame of it upon myself for having a solicitor who readily volunteered this arrangement to DH. Not to mention the school which sent DH our number (which had taken time and money to get changed), despite knowing the case history in some detail. DH stole hundreds of pounds worth of toys belonging to DC, made a crap homemade present and gave it to school for DS. The school made a point of gushingly repeatedly declaring just how talented a man DH was. They over-did it to such an extent that DS decided that the present was actually from them in the end

That is truly shocking petersham. If my DD's school had ever intervened in such a way then I would have removed her! How dare they take it upon themselves to become involved. And what happened to data protection? You aren't living with the man so they have no right to pass on your number, they should now be made to pay for you to have your number changed again.

Please remember that the solicitors etc are working for you, you are in charge, you have control, you just need the confidence to stand up to them and say "NO" to anything you don't agree with or feel uncomfortable with. I received legal aid too but I was fortunate that my solicitor was on the ball but if there had been even a sniff of anything I wasn't happy with then he would have hear about it.

This is what I mean when I say at my WA consultation group meetings, the abuse doesn't end when you leave an abusive relationship. Other agencies who think they know best can take over where the abuser left off, thinking they know best or what's best for a person and because that person is at such a low point, conditioned to do as they are told, it's very hard for them to speak up against what is happening.

Thank you for this thread Mme
I've felt sick reading it because there is still some stuff I cannot revisit.

I hope it helps other women see their relationships differently. Why and how do we end up putting up with such vile situations?

Some wonderful stories of courage here. Also makes very sad reading in parts.

My mum packed our bags and fled with me and my sister in the middle of the day when my dad was at work. I was 7, my sister was 4. We stayed on various friends sofas for months, then eventually were rehoused by the council on a very rough estate. But never once did we complain. It was the best dcision my mum could have made and our lives without him were so much happier.

My father bullied my mother, criticised her constantly, ranted at her for hours on end (she would lock heself and us away in the loo to escape him - sometimes we would sit there for hours). The physical violence had just started creeping in - he pushed her down some stairs, and had started grabbing her and stopping her from walking away when he was ranting. It was awful and badly affcted us (although my father never hurt or critcised us, so thought he was a great dad, not facing up to the effect it hadin us t see our mother belittled and attacked day in, day out )

I remember the utter relief when we got away from him.

As an adult, I definitely suffer from anxiety as a result of the awful atmosphere I lived with for the first years of my childhood - my sister does, too. But we are both strong people with very highly tuned 'bastard radar' and neither of us has put up with any shit in our own relationships - and for that I thank my mum for her excellent example.

No matter what the fallout may be, it is always better to get away by any means necessary from an abusive man.

Timefor, what a beautiful post. Thankyou! I'm crying. My family have always made me feel like I was a horrible, ungrateful, unlikeable person. It's so nice to hear something positive about me.

And you are completely right about my mother. And I have cut all ties with her. It did take me a long time to realise that my mother did also abuse me, that she wasn't the victim as she always made out. That she had a duty to protect me which she totally failed at. She is completely convinced that she is the only victim of my dad's abuse, and she is so wrapped up in feeling sorry for herself that she literally could not see that I was being abused too.

Some of the posters on here have said that it was when their partners started abusing their DC's as well that they knew it was time to leave. Why didn't my mother see that? Why, when my dad started abusing me as well as her, did she not try and leave? How could she just stand and watch me being abused for years? And yet when I told her I was ending our relationship and she would never see me again, she was completely bewildered and saying that they had been wonderful parents and why was I cutting ties with them.

I will never as long as I live be able to fathom the workings of that woman's mind. She is the strangest person I have ever come across in all my life. She lies, manipulates, cheats, but sees herself as a wonderful mother. There must be a term for someone as deluded as her but I don't know what it is. She lives in a complete alternate reality of her own construction that bears no resemblance at all to actual reality.

jasmine I am so pleased that you have cut all ties with your mother, she did not deserve the privilege of having you as her daughter.

You ask why did your mother not try to leave your father when he started abusing you. Maybe your father switching his attention towards you gave her an easier time and made it easier for her to stay, maybe seeing your father abuse you made her feel less guilty about the way she was treating you, perhaps she felt justified. Whatever her reasons it does appear that she feels that both her and her husbands parenting skills were 'normal'. She certainly is a deluded woman.

I can so relate to your last paragraph, I feel exactly the same in relation to my own mother and my ex. No matter how much time I spend trying to work out how their minds work I never can. My ex really did put me through hell but as far as he is concerned he did nothing wrong, he really can't see it, which means that he will never take responsibility for his actions and so will never change. These people are best avoided at all costs. For your own sanity.

You might like to take a look at Narcissism and Borderline Personality Disorder, it's quite possible you will recognise your mother. I recognise my ex in many of the personality disorders. I think it's difficult for us to fathom because it goes beyond the realms of reality, it's way beyond what is normal and it's so hard to get your head round that someone would actually behave that way, especially towards someone they are supposed to love.

Jasmine
I do agree with Time. You are worth so much more than this woman, and she is the real loser because she turned her back on her daughter to appease her husband. And, yes I agree that there is a line that some women step over when they go from not protecting themselves to not protecting their children. Which turns the abused into the abuser.

Toothbrush
I hope you are ok. Sorry that some parts of this thread have upset you. I go from being so sad for anyone who has gone through this to proud and happy for those of you who escaped such a terrible situation. Whether as children, as adults.

Coming back to Jasmine, it occurs to me that you have done what these women have done, what your mother didn't do. You have been strong enough to walk away from your parents.

Timefor, I think you are right. It was better for my mum when my father started abusing me. So because it was better for her she stayed and didn't try to leave. She didn't even stand up for. But I remember standing up for her and my sisters. Thinking about it all now, I agree with you, my mum didn't deserve me. She should not have been allowed to have any children.

Timefor, I have in the past looked at a couple of NPD websites, but my mother doesn't seem to really fit the description. I think she has a number of personality disorders and her mind is disordered in a very complex way. Maybe she developed her delusion about herself as the only victim and that she was a wonderful paren t as the only way of coping in our family given she did not have the guts to leave. I think even a top psychiatrist would have problems figuring her out because she lies and manipulates but acts like an innocent victim. She even had me fooled for years into believing she was the only victim of my dad's abuse. I didn't realise I had been abused until I was 36!

It is so good to read about how your DD is blossoming now you have got away from your abuser. You have given her back her childhood. I feel mine was stolen from me by my parents.

Mme Lindor, you are right, once my mother saw that I was being abused and did nothing to stop it, she also became an abuser. You would never get her to see that though. She is so wrapped up in feeling sorry for herself that she cannot see what is happening to anyone else.

Thankyou for your kind words Mme Lindor, yes, I did walk away from my parents, which was very very hard. I'm confident that I'm nothing like my mother, it was a good thing after all perhaps that I don't take after her, even though it meant she didn't like because of that. I despise my mother completely. She needs to read this thread and discover what a truly wonderful parent is really like.

Jasmine your childhood was stolen from you by your parents, I feel pretty much the same way about mine. My dad was lovely but I only remember him sticking up for me once, when I was 18 and my mother had hit me around the head so hard with a hairbrush that it broke. My dad was visibly upset and told her she shouldn't have done it. Not that it made any difference, she never admitted she did anything wrong, she, like your mother, is always the victim.

Your mother most definitely did not deserve you and I am so pleased you agree with that. She doesn't deserve any part of you, not your thoughts and not your anger. While ever we have anger towards a person we are stuck with them, they are in our thoughts, they are still causing us pain, meanwhile they sit in their ivory towers believing they are perfect and have done no wrong. We are wasting our time and our most precious energy feeling angry at these people, it only hurts us, not them. The best revenge is to be everything your mother wasn't.

As for trying to work out which mental disorder she has, I used to do this with my ex, at first I thought he had Aspergers as he does have some of the traits, but he also has some of the traits of NPD and BPD not to mention psychopath so, he is a mongrel of personality disorders! . I've given up trying to work it out now. I wanted to know so that I could understand but that understanding would most probably have led to me forgiving him for what he did, because if you have a name for it and it's a known disorder it's easier to blame the disorder and not the person. I know that I would have wanted to forgive him (and my mother) because it's horrible living with the fact that a person you loved and was supposed to love you could treat you so badly, you so desperately want to find a reason other than they simply didn't love or care about you enough to love you and protect you from harm.

I have three older children too Jasmine. Because of my own childhood I was absolutely determined that they would be raised differently. It was all a learning curve for me in the beginning because I had no role model but I raised my children to be happy, confident, independent individuals with their own minds, able to make their own choices and decisions. I am the very proud mother of three adult 'children' as well as my DD, they all have good jobs, nice homes and lovely partners with whom they have great relationships. That is a wonderful feeling. I am hoping that my relationship with my son will get back on track after me leaving the way I did. From talking to him he feels he failed me, he feels he should have been able to protect me from the abuse, that he should have known so I think a lot of his anger towards me comes more from him feeling guilty and that he let me down, he hates the fact I was forced into refuge. We are working on it though, it's all work in progress

Jasmine not only was your mother an abuser she was an enabler. Standing by while your father did what he did, she enabled him to abuse you.

Timefor, I'm sad for both of us that we had the best years of our life stolen from us. The years when we should have felt safe, care free and protected, were the opposite.

I probably do spend more time than I should thinking about why my mother behaves the way she does. I kind of find her fascinating in an objective, impersonal way, because she is just so weird. It would take me forever to describe her bizarre behaviour on here, her blatant lies, her manipulation, which if pulled up on she literally has no answer for, you just get a blank stare and she goes into victim mode ie poor, innocent her, telling lies or being manipulative, no way, and yet I've seen and heard her lies and manipulation myself, with my own eyes, when she thinks I haven't noticed.

Maybe she's a schizophrenic amongst other things. I don't think I'm looking for a PD for her so I have a reason for her not loving me. I know that I was an ordinary child who needed and deserved love like any other child and it was not my fault she didn't love me. I didn't always think that. I did used to think that I might have been a difficult child and that was why she didn't love me. Eventually I realised that my difficult behaviour was because I could sense my mother didn't love me, not the other way around.

I'm glad and not surprised to hear your other children have grown up emotionally healthy because you are their mother. And I'm sure things will work out with your son. Sometimes it takes a bit of time for the truth to emerge and become clear.

jasmine there is still time for more 'best years'. Yes, my childhood was rubbish, it truly was but I made sure that I made up for it when I left home

I can totally understand your fascination with your mother's weird ways, I have been just the same with my ex but I got to a stage where I was totally fed up with it dominating my thoughts. I'm sick of him, I'm sick of him being in my head, he doesn't deserve any space in my life so I've weaned myself off. I've got rid of the library of books I had on every known personality disorder, I'm just about to burn my journals and I'm going for a fresh start! His disordered personality is his problem, not mine, it's for him to understand if he ever wants to live a normal life, I no longer need to understand it because he isn't a part of my life. I have taken back my power, I have reclaimed my life and he isn't having another moment of it. Same applies to my mother but I dealt with that some time a go.

You know, when you confronted your mother and she switched to victim mode because she had no answer, that was her manipulating you, she seems a master at it, her whole life, her whole being seems to be one big act of manipulation. You are exhausting yourself trying to understand this woman, all you need to do is look at her, she is telling you exactly who she is. You most probably will never understand it because you don't have the capability to relate to someone so evil. To draw a line under this and be able to move on I think you should decide for yourself what she is, no longer look for evidence that you may never find because that will keep you tied to her for such a long time, decide for yourself then write her off. Move on with your life and don't give her another thought. Cleanse your mind of her.

You are an amazing, wonderful woman, your mother was very lucky to have you as your daughter, I'm just so sorry that she was too sick to realise this.

Jasmine I'm sorry if I missed this anywhere in your posts but I wondered if you had ever confronted your father about his abuse of you. I can see how your mother failed you, enabled his abuse of you and also emotionally abused you herself but I wonder if you have ever confronted your father and forced him to take responsibility for his part of the abuse.

I have so much admiration for you women, who have overcome terrible childhoods and have succeeded in making a decent and loving home for your children.

So many abusive people blame their transgressions on the abuse suffered in childhood. You have shown that strength of character, self-control and empathy can grow, even in those whose childhoods were barren of positive examples of these traits.