Is Lack of sex ever a vaild reason to end relationship?

[balotelli]

Dw and I have been married for 10+ yrs. 1 DC (3).
Her libido has basically died. It was never rampant but now is down to 3 x a year and then when we do dtd I feel that its out of duty not pleasure.
We have a brilliant relationship in every other way, no money worries, make each other laugh lots, have nice house, holidays etc etc But the big old elephant sits in the corner and wont budge.
I know I cantface the rest of my life having making love 3x a year or less. The frustration and feelings of rejection are driving me mental and making depressed.
Dw wont talk about it as she says 'its the way she is and there is nothing that can be done about it'.
Just wanted your insightful thoughts, input and advice before I make a rash descision I may regret for ever.
Thank you for reading.

Balotelli - I think there are some really good points made so far, especially you trying to get to the route of the reason(s) why she doesn't desire sex and working on these (if she is willing) prior to making any life changing decisions (assuming are leaving her? Affair?)

I would be mortified, as a woman, if my OH wasn't satisfied in the bedroom; likewise he'd be mortified if I wasn't satisfied too.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about compatibility from the beginning of the relationship and I do agree with this, which in my relationship has always been open about sex and the desire for it and talking about this when each other are horny/unhappy etc. Therefore, surely communication is the issue here, not lack of sex? Have you physically sat down and put your cards on the table about how you feel about your sex life?

Women and men do view sex differently to each other (from personal experience there is a pecking order of 'things' to do like work, cook food, housework, take care of dd..list is endless ) for men, it can be about "luuuurrrve making" but IMO is normally "release" too

If my OH was unhappy, he'd talk to me about it and let me know how he feels. There was a dry patch (poor choice of words there!) during my 1st trimester when I was vomiting everyday and completely exhausted which resulted in the odd joke about him knocking one out in the shower, but that was only temporary and it was a joke- It concerns me that your wife is so blasé about telling you to pleasure yourself?!

If i were you, i would sit down and talk to her about how you feel. Of course it'll be hard for her to hear that your are unhappy and hurt by her blasé comments to wank "please yourself". See how she reacts (probably defensive) but show her how hurt you are by the situation to and how you are willing to do anything to help her enjoy sex and the connection from it and help her around the house too (certainly if she's using this as an excuse- which I'm sorry, some people do that).

A close friend (and shrink) once said to me: are you being lazy when it comes to sex, or do you genuinely not want it? If it's the first, stop being lazy, get yourself "in da' groove" and you'll enjoy it once you get started (which is so true for the majority of women out there IMO!!). But if it's the latter, then you need sex therapy or a new man!

From your posts, you sound like a lovely man and will be sensitive to any discussion with you dw. I can only wish you the best with your marriage

Ps. I read your post out to my OH and he said leave her!! How men and women are soooooo different! Its a good job he's satisfied despite having a 5 month old dd!

Yep Bushy me too.

Also, how can you have orgasms if you think sex is "unpleasant"?

Even people who adore sex and are in the middle of getting it on and really enjoying it, can be put off by something like the phone ringing or a lover saying something stupid. Thinking the whole thing is revolting, must surely make orgasms an impossibility?

i would imagine that she would not admit to masturbating if she feels that sex itself is somehow unpleasant.

i would also imagine that she is capable of orgasm and probably has masturbated at some stage.

OP - are you certain that she isnt seeing anyone else?
has she always felt this way about sex?
if not - when did it change?

It is reasonable to leave. It is also reasonable to discuss (critical in fact) and to explain your views. If she doesnt want to change that is her right, but you are within your rights to choose to not live a sexless life. So you can have sex elsewhere (fraught) or leave.

michele weiner davis has written extensively on this subject. Google her; I thin she has written a book on it too.

Well it's not as simple as that BayPolar. For a start, many women are basically held hostage by their ovaries which inevitably sometimes means 'settling' or running the risk of not having kids at all. I do agree though, that issues at the very start are generally not likely to get better.

Also, some people are very happy initially with the 'sheets they chose' and it STILL doesn't work out. We're only human like!

OP it's clear that your wife just isn't into sex/doesn't fancy you any more; imo there's no point people suggesting she look into her libido: if she wanted sex with the op, she'd be having sex with the op, or at the very least, taking it on HERSELF to look into her libido so she could improve the situation.

OP you can't force her to want sex with you but it's wrong that she won't discuss it. You have a few options:

1. Tell her you want sex and are not happy with the situation as is. Give her a timeframe within which to sort out the problem and tell her if she does nothing, it's separation time.
2. Have an affair and don't tell her about it.
3. Tell her you want the freedom to have an affair, ie get her permission.

Oh and also she's almost certainly faking orgasms... if she doesn't masturbate and doesn't like sex by her own admission, that is NOT a person who has orgasms.

Is she using hormonal contraceptives? Perhaps 3 times / year means you don't use anything. Just wondered, because recently switching to a non-hormonal method so has made a massive difference to my sex drive.

My ovaries have never held me hostage but I'm one of those rare women who have never wanted children.
Maybe I see things differently because of this.
No need to 'settle' because no desire for kids.
Ergo, I get to take my time choosing 'the right one', who is totally right for me, else why bother?

Ergo, I get to take my time choosing 'the right one', who is totally right for me, else why bother?

Yes, in that case absolutely why bother. I often think not wanting kids is great freedom for women...

Anyway sorry for the tangent.

It sounds like she has a hang-up about sex (I was also wondering if she was abused in some way).

But is there any chance she is on medication (e.g. anti-depressants or the contraceptive pill) that could be affecting her sex drive? Though it sounds like she might have always had a low interest in sex, rather than some recent dramatic change, so it is probably not a medication thing.

She's just not that into sex.

Lot's of people who have low libido take testosterone. Doctors can advise on this.

I saw a couple on TV who's lives had both changed as a result of them both taking it. It's not just needed for men.

Would she go to the doctors and get her levels checked?

I don't think it's helpful chastising an OP for his choice of marriage partner and any posts with clichés about women having different sexual needs or appetites are also unlikely to advance the OP's thinking, because he and his wife are individuals with their own scripts about sex.

OP I'm still curious about what has lead you to post now and on this forum? Is your wife a Mumsnetter whom you hope will recognise her own situation?

If it's not that and you're not trying to justify having an affair, it seems you have a few options.

You could go to counselling on your own to help you with the emotional impact of either staying or going, alongside some practical considerations about what separation might mean - could you share the parenting of your child, could you both finance two homes?

Or you could talk to your wife again, but this time make it clear that that although you love her and want to have a full relationship where you are both satisfied in every area, you cannot countenance a life without more frequent, mutually enjoyable sex. You have the right to some honesty from your partner, because it doesn't sound as though you have that now. Also have a think about whether it is just sex that is missing, but also intimacy - do you feel desired by your wife and does she give you affection and even non-sexual touch?

It's often suggested on these threads that you attempt to negotiate an open relationship, but this only works for people who can divorce emotions from sex and it doesn't sound like you're one of those people - as might not be, any sexual partners you choose, even if that is the arrangement in the beginning. Bringing a third party into a relationship to prop it up, works very rarely; either secretly or openly. Having a secret affair would be a disastrous solution that would damage you as well as your wife, your child and your lover, because it would mean compromising your personal integrity as an honest person.

Something that also might be worth exploring with your wife is whether she is even subconsciously 'testing' you in some way, seeing whether you will act like her father did all those years ago, leaving her and his wife for someone else? I wonder how her mum dealt with that loss and what messages your wife received about sex while she was growing up? This is something a good therapist might work through - did any of this come up in the psycho-sexual therapy you undertook?

I don't think you should end your marriage until you've tried everything to resolve matters, because it sounds as though there is a lot to celebrate in your relationship, but no marriage can survive with one person's silence and unwillingness to engage.

you say you are not taking away her choices yet you clearly said this "She is a SAHM and she says that I do too much around the house" and then you say that she doesn't like housework. Does this mean that she would rather live in a messy place and all wear dirty clothes and eat take aways? Or does it mean that you have different views on other aspects of living together as well as sex so you like things super clean and tidy and she is more relaxed for instance?

..and what did happen in Relate sex therapy?

I have a low libido.
We don't have sex anywhere near as much as DH would like. I know it's very difficult for him .
I have ME and would be devastated if my DH left me.
If you think she loves you , don't give up on her yet .
The grass may not be greener.

Wrt relate therapy she just didnt enjoy it. She did it because she was 'told' to by therapist.
Although she finds the idea of sex unpleasant, when she 'gets going' she says she likes it. She does tend to think deeply about everything and can get stuck into a particular mindset on a subject and very little can deviate her from that line of thought.
I dont smoke, dont drink am not overweight and exercise 6 days a week. Although I am pushing 50 my libido is still what it was when I was 18, so saying that men of this age just dont want sex is bollocks. My dad is 73,(widower) has a new 'lady friend' (73) and still has sex! (sorry if that last bit put you off your food.)
Thank you to everyone who has offered advice and taken the time to read my post.
Its good to know I'm not alone in my problem, although it often feels like it.
My dw does read mn sometimes but is unlikely to read this thread as its about sex.

Hmmm, well I have seen this from the other side.

There are some people (esp. from certain spheres of christianity) who believe sex is dirty/bad and it's hard to get past that. They feel obligated to do it but don't enjoy it. It's really sad, but unless they want to tackle it, there's not much you can do.

Many people in your position have affairs, some leave, some indulge in online fantasies. None of these solutions is entirely satisfactory but you just have to make a choice of what you will do if she won't move on this.

But if you love her and want the relationship to survive, you need to strongly encourage her to get some help (without you).

Oh and she's almost certainly faking her orgasms.

Does she realise sex is an expression of love as well as a physical act which brings pleasure?

This might sound an obvious comment but I just wonder if she has compartmentalised in her head that sex= STI/promiscuity/sex industry OR getting pregnant.

So it really does not figure? Intimacy is important and the vital part of sex in a relationship. You need that

It is possible that she might enjoy sex when it does happen but still dislike the idea of it. I had a bit of that viewpoint for a long time. I was brought up by someone with a very dysfunctional view of sex and it rubbed off. Never masturbated (still very rarely do) and didn't learn to orgasm until maybe five years ago or so (before that I thought I did sometimes, but now I know I really didn't). Many wasted years! Our sex life didn't really improve until my relationship pretty much hit rock bottom because dh did feel very rejected.

Btw dw is not on any hormonal contraceptive. After dc was born we discussed it at great length and decided that one was enough so I had the snip as it was easiest option.
I do think she believes that sex is a 'bad' thing and has to force herself into dtd which makes me feel bad.
as for faking the orgasms, she just isnt that sort of person. Way too honest and not that good an actor. Dont want to go into too much graphic detail but I can tell she does not fake them.
She doesnt seem to think that sex is a very important part of a healthy relationship....... unlike me!

It's very easy for a woman to fake an orgasm. It's something I rarely do but the few times I've done it due to time pressure or whatever, my partner has never been able to tell the difference, and I consider myself generally honest and not a great actor! You have said that your first priority is always her orgasm, which can be a certain type of pressure in itself, and would've been the underlying reason for my few 'fakes'. I'd be very very surprised if she wasn't faking.

Best of luck dealing with it op; I guess you always knew she wasn't much into sex so it's for you to decide whether what you have together is enough for you. She doesn't owe you sex but she certainly owes you an open discussion about it so you can express your opinion.

TBH it sounds like she's asexual. I think lack of sex, if people have agreed to it, is not a valid reason to end a relationship, but someone refusing to discuss something is a very valid reason. OTOH it seems like it was obvious she wasn't that into sex right from the start, and it does slightly piss me off that men deliberately get into committed relationships with women who clearly don't like sex, then moan about it and look for 'casual sex' elsewhere when there are plenty of single women who like sex and would like a committed relationship- I suspect it's the old madonna-whore complex at work.

I actually do think that there are people who just aren't bothered about sex unfortunately, perhaps asexual?

I guess at the beginning on the relationship it's easier to brush over certain flaws in the other person, and most people, even those who have a low sex drive put out more in the first flurries of love..

whomovedmychoc nice to see you, I often wonder how you are getting on.

Google 'sexual aversion'. It may be that she has developed this over the course of time. Its a psychological condition.

Geordieminx - hello, I'm fine thank you - nice to see you too. :)