Should I let my children see my paedophile FIL?

[FiremanSamsFireEngine]

I hope you can help me with this awful situation. Over 3 years ago, when I was pregnant with our first child, my husband and I discovered that my FIL had been arrested for downloading thousands of the most serious levels of child pornography, systematically for over a year. He plead guilty and was convicted. My DH was shocked and devastated as you can imagine, and I didn't ever want to see him again, and certainly not let our children (we have now had 2 kids) ever have any contact. At the time my husband said that our children would never have to have any contact with him.

Our children have never met my FIL, and my husband has limited contact with his family. 3 years on and my husband now wants our children to attend gatherings of his extended family where his father will be present. He no longer wants his father airbrushed out of our lives.

I am freaking out. I don't see what good it will do to introduce our children this man. It goes against every single one of my instincts to protect them - physically and emotionally. As they get older (they are 3 and 2) they will start to ask more and more questions. I don't know how I will be able to answer why they don't see their grandfather often, why he doesn't touch them (over my dead body) when they see him. What if they go to embrace him? etc etc... It's just going to get more and more complicated and horrible.

A paedophile is someone with a sexual interest in children, not just someone who assaults children. He has demonstrated a seriously dishonest nature (he managed to keep his obsession a secret, even from his wife, for over a year). I do not want our children to have contact with someone like this. It will just get more and more emotionally complicated for everyone.

Me and my husband have been at loggerheads over this for some time. I have finally agreed that we'll attend a family gathering next week and the kids will be introduced to the FIL, but with strict ground rules. Just an introduction: "this is Daddy's daddy", no physical contact, and that this is not the start of some sort of reconcillation. I feel sick about it, and am very worried I am doing the wrong thing in an attempt to make my husband happy (he has acknowledged he is only doing this for himself, not for the kids).

What would you do? Could you imagine yourself ever agreeing to this?

I won't be able to check this forum until tomorrow night, but hope I can get some sense from other people (due to the shameful nature of this I have been unable to talk to friends about it) and will be able to reply then. Thanks in advance

According to the OP's previous post her FIL was convicted of downloading thousands of level 4 photos (highest level is 5).

According to the Sentencing Guidelines Council Level 4 is penetrative sexual activity involving a child or children, or both children and adults

Think that is enough for any normal person to not want their dcs anywhere near a man like that, relation or not. If it were my dh we wouldn't be at 'loggerheads' over his wish to have contact, we would be in the divorce courts.

It's irrelevant whether he's ever acted on his fantasies.

The simple question is: is it ever appropriate to introduce your children to someone who has a demonstrable sexual interest in children?

The answer is surely, every time, a resounding NO.

If I was in your shoes op , I would do anything to keep my kids away from that man. I'd even pack up their stuff and move to the other end of the country without dh if that was the only way.

Your dh needs to understand his children come before his father . His father is a risk to all children and from what little I know about peadophiles , they do not get better , the only escalate in their acts.

Your husband is trying to bully you into going against all your basic gut maternal instincts. Call his bluff - honestly - as others have said just say no - because you are not prepared to compromise the safety and dignity of your children (lets face it you wouldnt know what he was thinking when looking at them - bleugh}.

To answer somewhere upthread, OP's FIL did act on his feelings. Children were abused because people like your FIL create demand to these awful vile images.

I would not be anywhere near this person. Family gatherings are fine as long as this man is not present. I would be making it very clear.

While your instincts and feelings are totally understandable, so are those of your H. People love their parents even when those parents are bad people. People who are the victim in abusive couple-relationships often love the abuser and are desperate to believe that the abuser can change or be 'cured'.

Your FIL may not be an active risk to children ie your DC may not actually be at any risk of harm from seeing him (though I'm not at all sure I would want to chance it, either). But the fact that your H still loves his dad and wants to believe that it can all be made better doesn't make your H a villain. Please try to bear that in mind while you are sorting it all out.

I'm trying to see the other side here, but there doesn't seem to be one in this case. I think you know you can't introduce your young children to their FIL.

It's hard for your DH to accept what his father has done, but he must. He should feel an urge to protect his children from him as they are so young and vulnerable. Perhaps, say, in 10-15 years time, if the FIL has made progress, you can review the situation? Is there any communication you would feel comfortable with for now - eg DH see FIL on his own? Would you be happy if he talked about the children / showed photos? If anything is to happen, rules and boundaries must be clear. It is not easy to be so clinical when it comes to family, but FIL has severe problems and any communication must be managed carefully.

You need to make it clear that you want no contact between the DC and FIL. However, your and Dh's relationship with his father is another matter and one that you can discuss between you.

sorry for grammar...

Sorry Fireman, cross-posted. I remember your original thread but didn't realise it was so long ago. I am seriously shocked that you are even contemplating contact. Your dcs are very young and vulnerable and you have a duty to protect him from men like your FIL. It is shameful that your dh cannot or will not see this.

I agree, you risk your children being subject to a ss investegation aswell. I have had dealing with people like this and remember one training course made it quite clear, the level of photos is NOT an idication of how dangerous they are, for example, one PE teacher was caught with photos of boys in their swimshort and pants, so low grade stuff, HOWEVER, it was later discovered he had joined with another paedophile and they had planned to take a child off the street to abuse, they had got as far hiring a van and picking the child before they were caught!!
please please protect your children.

Poor you Op. I agree with Flisspaps, over my dead body would my children be at that reunion.
Zero contact, trust your instincts, DH can go on his own.
Have you thought about going to counselling with your DH to discuss this issue, I think he is trying to forget about it and move on. Dangerous.

Can't believe this is even up for debate tbh.

OP, your DH must be mentally ill or something. His reasoning is certainly defective.

If I were in your shoes I think his attitude would be a dealbreaker for me.

Run for the hills skin crawling at the thought of children being around someone like that. So he's never abused children physically before what's to say that's not due to lack of opportunity or just not being caught?

I understand that your husband must be conflicted about his own father, but on the subject of his own children he is violating their safety and protecion.
He can have whatever relationship he wants with that vile individual, but I'd be keeping my children well away. And informing DH that if he ever took the children to see FIL behind my back, the police would be called and divorce would be filed.

having 100's of miles between him and your dcs doesnt make it feel safe for me;

paedophiles are very devious, determined and organised arent they?

I wouldnt want him to know anything about the kids at all, and definitely not know what they look like/see photos

BTW, the nicey nicey behaviour that padeophiles demonstrate is called grooming. He'll groom your children before making his next move, it may take years to fool your DH and his family, but it WILL happen.
Can your DH face the thought of that?

No fucking way ever ever ever ever

While I hate the current every adult male is a peado attitude, you know that this guy is, and I hate to say it if he had that level of photos he either did abuse a child and hasn't been caught yet or will have been planning to and your 'D'H is happy to allow the children near him.

Don't get me wrong I do feel sorry for your husband, it must be so hard to learn this about your father, and if the rest of the family are minimising it, it must make him so conflicted.

But the others those - ?The others have just carried on as normal, and are even getting angry at me, as if I caused it all!? where will they be if he does abuse your child, believe me if they are like this now, they will make the abuse your fault too

Yes droves exactly - and you cant police what people are thinking/wishing etc when looking at children. You know he looks at children in a sexual manner - how would you feel if you went along with these 'safe' meetings and your daughter in several years finds out what the man she called Grandad might have been thinking when he was looking at her - and you - her mother put her in that situation. Also do you really think that his awful sounding head in sand family will be happy ultimately with these 'no touching' meetings. Course not ! Next you'd be equally villified for your 'cruelty' at letting the man meet his GCs but not hug them etc etc. No - do not put even one of your toes in this murky water.

Re earlier post, I wasn't trying to imply that he hadn't harmed anyone or that not being caught for assault would make him 'innocent' - I was just trying to get a complete picture of his behaviour over the years. Some people with paedophiliac tendencies do fight against it, seek treatment etc which can be very successful. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case here.

I would not even want the man to know what my DC looked like.

No photos,nothing.

He may not be an active abuser but he gets his kicks from looking at children being abused.

His behaviour means children continue to be abused so that creeps like him can get off on it.

OP when I read your thread title I assumed you were a troll. I can't believe you have to ask the question.

What in the hell is he doing at family parties anyhow? Your children should not be missing out on these get togthers - he should not even be there. Little children have had their lives ruined to feed the desires of people like your FIL and the price he pays for that is missing out on his grandchildren and family. Tough.

It worries me that your husband finds it acceptable. I haven't read your other thread and you may have answered this question, but did your FIL abuse your DH? Is that why he doesn't find it shocking?

How will you feel if he turns up at their nursery, presenting himself as 'Grandad' and tries to take them home?

I agree with the majority verdict on this one - would not want this man to ever be in a room with my kids - for any reason. He should be excluded from family parties when there are going to be children attending. However, I can see how this is tricky for your husband too - if he had a relatively good relationship with his Dad growing up then it is probably hard for him to reconcile this with what his father has done. I think you should tell DH that he can see his father on his own, but under no circumstances should your children be involved, he has proven himself to be a predator and totally untrustworthy, it is just not worth even the slightest risk.

OP, I generally just lurk on this site, when time allows, but I felt the need to post.

I don't have children, but I do have a convicted child sex abuser as a father. I sympathise with your DH immensely, it's very hard to to be able to switch off the love you feel for someone who is a 'monster'.

But...I have cut all but very sporadic contact with my father and I decided a long time ago that, should I ever have children, he will not be a part of their lives in any way.

I am as sure as I can be (for my own reasons) that he wouldn't be a danger, but not only would I feel incredibly paranoid and completely ridiculous about the situation, emotionally it would be too much.

As I said, sympathy to your DH but please stick with your gut feeling.

I've read your other thread now OP and I have to say I wouldn't want any of you to be at the family parties even if he wasn't there. Your MIL's response is really worrying and, as you say yourself, they sound extremely dysfunctional.