Should I let my children see my paedophile FIL?

[FiremanSamsFireEngine]

I hope you can help me with this awful situation. Over 3 years ago, when I was pregnant with our first child, my husband and I discovered that my FIL had been arrested for downloading thousands of the most serious levels of child pornography, systematically for over a year. He plead guilty and was convicted. My DH was shocked and devastated as you can imagine, and I didn't ever want to see him again, and certainly not let our children (we have now had 2 kids) ever have any contact. At the time my husband said that our children would never have to have any contact with him.

Our children have never met my FIL, and my husband has limited contact with his family. 3 years on and my husband now wants our children to attend gatherings of his extended family where his father will be present. He no longer wants his father airbrushed out of our lives.

I am freaking out. I don't see what good it will do to introduce our children this man. It goes against every single one of my instincts to protect them - physically and emotionally. As they get older (they are 3 and 2) they will start to ask more and more questions. I don't know how I will be able to answer why they don't see their grandfather often, why he doesn't touch them (over my dead body) when they see him. What if they go to embrace him? etc etc... It's just going to get more and more complicated and horrible.

A paedophile is someone with a sexual interest in children, not just someone who assaults children. He has demonstrated a seriously dishonest nature (he managed to keep his obsession a secret, even from his wife, for over a year). I do not want our children to have contact with someone like this. It will just get more and more emotionally complicated for everyone.

Me and my husband have been at loggerheads over this for some time. I have finally agreed that we'll attend a family gathering next week and the kids will be introduced to the FIL, but with strict ground rules. Just an introduction: "this is Daddy's daddy", no physical contact, and that this is not the start of some sort of reconcillation. I feel sick about it, and am very worried I am doing the wrong thing in an attempt to make my husband happy (he has acknowledged he is only doing this for himself, not for the kids).

What would you do? Could you imagine yourself ever agreeing to this?

I won't be able to check this forum until tomorrow night, but hope I can get some sense from other people (due to the shameful nature of this I have been unable to talk to friends about it) and will be able to reply then. Thanks in advance

roadkillbunny - I remember your thread at the time. So sorry that you're feeling like that but you have done the right thing and been a good strong mother for them.

roadkillbunny i think i too remember you
you've done the best thing now. We can feel good about this ....our children are safe which is more than we were xxx

roadkillbunny, it must have been a horrific experience. However, let me clarify here, that sexual offenses against a 16-year-old are not the same as pedophilia. Pedophilia is sexual attraction directed towards a pre-pubescent child. A pedophile does not feel attracted to a sexually developed body, either a boy's or a girl's. Your father committed the crime of underage sex, not pedophilia.

aurynne you speak with authority but many would beg to differ with your opinion

NotnOtter, it is not an opinion. The definition of a padophile is very, very clear.

No!!!

Aurynne I think you should read roadkill's entire thread. Her father is a pedophile. It's horrendous and I'm sure she knows what she's talking about!

I was writing using roadkillbunny's comment on this thread as a reference, I haven't read her other thread. If her father also abused pre-pubescent children (apart from that 16-year-old boy), then I would agree he was also a pedophile. I am not trying to grade crimes, I am just clarifying a concept which happens to be very important, as pedophilia is a very specific (and fortunately uncommon) disorder.

I have not read anyone's comments on this thread, I don't need to because I would not care what anyone else thought.

No chance in hell would he come any where near my children.

If anyone in the family can't understand that then they have not fully understood what he has done wrong.

This is not a crime that can be forgiven this is an urge that will not go away.

Aurynne, you may feel it very important to display your knowledge of what paedophilia is, but that is no excuse for belittling the experience of a woman who's mentioned her own childhood memories of her father's behaviour and that she was so distressed by it that she shielded her children from him.

I did read roadkill's harrowing threads but her one post above tells you enough. Your response is insensitive, not to mention arrogant.

Aurynne I had thought I had made it clear in my post that my Father sexually abused me as a child (7 years old is that young enough for you?) a posed significant risk to my young children (they are 6 and 3, young enough?) and that is the opinion of social services not just me. Maybe I wasn't clear enough but that is hardly the point. I also don't really like paedophilia being referred to as a disorder as in the case of my Father most of the abuse has always been about control but I do concede that this is my feelings and that paedophilia is in fact a disorder.
I am not quite sure what to do with your comments, I am reminded that there are always some people who will try to minimise and excuse the behaviour of people like my Father that's just life and humanity but what I do object to is posting it on a thread like this where the relevance is zero.

I would just like also to thank all the people who have supported me here on this thread and also the support given, and continually given to me over on my thread, you are all amazing.

Aurynne I'm sure plenty of people find the discussion of what constitutes a paedophile highly interesting but this is not the place for it. This is not the place for clarification. You should have been able to gather from both the OP and roadkill that they knew their own PERSONAL circumstances enough to be able to comment knowledgably on them?

I'm afraid you to do come across as arrogant and insensitive, though I'm sure you don't mean to. I just think with the protection two very real little boys on the line, and the memories of very real abuse being talked about here, academic discussions on what defines a paedophile are inappropriate!

Roadkill, you are both an amazingly strong woman and a wonderful mother - you should be very proud of yourself!

Thanks to all who have contributed to this. I have spoken to my DH now and told him that we are not going to the family gathering (it is his grandad's 100th birthday party, so a really big deal), and he is going on his own. I have told him that I will never feel happy about his dad seeing our DCs, and that it's not a matter of over time I will soften, and they just have to wait.

He has agreed he will read this thread, altho he tried to dismiss it: "I don't care what a load of hysterical women who don't know the details of this think". I told him you don't need to know every detail to know that a paedophile should not have contact with children. I also warned him this thread will be painful viewing for him.

We have seen Relate about this once, and the councillor was f-ing awful IMHO. She asked me some questions "to see why I have such a strong reaction" and seemed to be saying that I was over reacting. My DH has since used this as ammunition against my position. The councillor finished the session by santimoniously saying "we must remember to hate the deed, not the person". I reminded her that was a theory and an opinion, and that I think we are defined by our actions. It really put me off going to Relate again and I wonder whether I should report her? DH is very keen to go again.

Roadkill - thanks for your postings too. You are really brave and you have done the right thing. I identify with you, as I feel I am a bad mother too as I originally agreed to go to make my husband happy (he really is suffering with this), instead of going with my gut instincts. I was so confused and conflicted and didn't have anyone to discuss this with.

Thanks again everyone, especially those who are sharing painful memories.

Dear MR op

I know you are going to read this, so just a quick point. About being hysterical women who don't know the score.

Infact many of us do, many have seen child abuse in families or through ourselves.

They are also well aware it can't be rehabilitated away. They are also aware, dysfunctional families, which yours is. Who try to hush it all up, pretend it never happened, and normalise this horrific behaviour. They are indeed breeding grounds for abuse. As it's more important to tow the family line than face up to what is in fact a serious crime and danger to the children.

So as a Father now, your priority should be to the dc's not your perverted father. As a parent, if your dc's fall victim to sexual abuse, you will carry it with you until the day you die. You'll be even more sick as you knew his sexual preferences from the get go.

Normal, healthy families do not try and hush up this behaviour, to be a family unit again. You should stand by your wife. If you were my husband, I'd have walked out on you for even contemplating putting the children in that position.

No

The highest child porn rating means that a child died either during or as a result of the abuse

OP I would report that counsellor, in my experience counsellors should not impose their opinion, and hers seems mad anyway.

Hate the deed not the person? What ridiculous advice.

This is a person whose behaviour has contributed to children being raped.

If I was in your position I would not be going anywhere near this man and hell would freeze over before he got to see any children of mine.

Of course your DH is keen to go to relate again because the counsellor is validating his ridiculous opinion. was the relate counsellor aware of the severity of the images and that actual real live children got raped for his viewing pleasure? Those poor children will be scarred for life.

FSFE - It is a shame to miss out on an event such as H' Grandfather's 100th - but it is H's father's (& the familiy's) doing - not yours. You are doing more than enough by giving H your blessing to go.

I'm glad you are being firm about this. You should definitely report that woman from Relate. If H wants to see someone else - find someone privately who is trained in this area. However, I suspect he doesn't so much want to see someone else, as have you told again that you are being unreasonable.

If he thinks we are just a bunch of hysterical women who don't know all the details - then tell him to ask his friends. If it's so 'not a big deal' get him to tell his friends that his father is a convicted paedophile but he wants to take his children to see him - ask them what they think.

Ask him why, in prisons, paedophiles are kept separate to the other offenders? Why they get beat up?

What other details does he feel are pertinent to making this decision? I cannot think of one single thing that would change this?

Mr FSFE - I understand that this is your Dad and it must be very hard to accept what he has done. However, you do need to accept that he did it and therefore it is not OK for him to have any contact with your children - not even supervised. They deserve more from you than to be knowingly put in a position where a paedophile is given access to them. You should apologise to your wife from the bottom of your heart for putting her through this again and silently to your children for even thinking about doing it.

Getoutmypub how do you know that?

I think your husband needs counselling FSFE. Would he be willing to give it a go?

No I don't think your children should be near your FIL. As others have said you could have serious problems with SS if you allowed it.

SS would definately have a serious problem with it.

YES report that counsellor.....that's disgusting what she said to you.

Name changed and please bear with me on this post, it might come out jumbled with spelling mistakes, but this is a secret that I have kept for over 30 years, I believe though that in the telling of this it minght help OP and more importantly her husband to undertand the level of the crime that has been comitted.

I was abused for over 2 years, aged 5-7, a crime that the perptrator was convicted of. It is something that I have dealt with and recovered from, I can now hold me head up high and say I am a survivor. There is one aspect of my abuse however that I can not come to terms with.

I was photographed, I never told anyone so the photos where never recovered or used as part of the prosecution. I do not know and never will know what became of those photos, I hope that the perpatrator got an attack of the guilts and disposed of them, but knowing that a paedophile can never be rehabilitated and at the time of the prosecution there where no programs for rehabilition I doubt he did what I hope.

Those photos could now be floating around on the internet for anyone who has that mindset to download and view at their lesuire. I could be one of those children the OPs FIL perved over.

It is not a victimless crime, it is not a minor misdemeanor that can easily be forgotten, I am the victim, I am real, I Laugh, I love, I hurt and I cry. I exist! I also carry the stain of those pictures and I feel dirty. If those around the perpetrator forgive them for their crime, if they downplay the seriousness of the offence, then I become unimportant, my battle to become a survivor becomes nothing but a mole hill that I made into a mountain. Child abuse becomes just one of those things that happen.

There is so much more I want to say but this has been incredibly hard to write and I am having trouble expressing myself. Sorry if it seems garbled.