Should I ignore my mum's comments to my DS when they make my blood run cold? (long, sorry)

[NoNoNoMYDoIt]

Background - I have 2 DCs (DS 5 and DD 2). I am separated from their father but the children have shared residence with both their father and me.

My parents live 150 miles away so when they come to visit, they always stay.

My relationship with my parents is strained at best. My mother is very controlling and disapproves of me in just about every way imaginable.

This is about the way she is with the kids, tho. She can't cope with their behaviour at all (and their behaviour is far from awful). She rises to every single situation and gets very stressed by them. My father is also very short with them and calls DD 'child', rather than her proper name.

When they come to stay, I find it very stressful, not least because I hear my mum talking to the children, mainly DS at the moment but I can see it starting with DD also, in the same tone that she used with me. When I was growing up, I was always a 'horrid child', 'stupid', 'retarded, 'the worst thing that happened' to her. She 'rued the day I was born', wished she had never had me etc etc. And of course this has left me with woeful self esteem and an inability to form a real bond with another adult.

I am desperate to protect my children from this and go over the top (probably) to make sure they never have anything negative said about them. I still discipline their behaviour, with time-out / warnings and withdrawal of privileges etc. But it is their behaviour which is horrid or naughty, not them, and I am very clear about that.

So when my mum comes and starts saying to my son 'you are a nasty horrid little boy', I want to scream at her. But I don't.

I can't tackle her about this as she has only just started talking to me again after I went to court in the summer over residence of the kids - it didn't go the way she thought was best and she withdrew all contact with me for 4 months after the court ruling. If I try to say anything to her, she will just stop talking to me again, which is fine but then the kids miss out on seeing them altogether. The kids still ask to see their GPs so I know the relationship is important to my kids.

So am I right to just ignore what she says? I end up so stressed when she is here, because every time the kids get over-excited and start to play up, I worry she is going to start saying hateful things to them. As a result, I can't leave them on their own with her and my dad. I have tried to go for a run (for 40 minutes) while they are staying, but when I get home, usually one, and sometimes both, of the children is upstairs in its bedroom screaming because it is in trouble for something and has been sent to bed. My mother has a tendency to scream like a banshee and I cannot bear the thought that she might do this to my kids.

"because deep down i have always believed what my mother told me".

That is termed 'negative internal introject'. It is THE most tragic thing about toxic parents is that we absorb the horrible projections of these disturbed cut off people and believe these as articles of faith about ourselves. But it is not real! It is distorted thinking!

THIS is the battle. However crazy this sounds bear with me. I was told wonderful IC who saved my life that when 'those voices' (superego) start on at me in my head (listen: you will hear mainly your mother's voice), start to learn to argue back at them (supporting the inner child who is still there in an embryonic form). 'No, I am not, I am a good person/you are wrong/I have worth/I have integrity' Stand up to them! As soon as you find yourself beating yourself up, make a conscious decision to stop, and argue back!

It works, NoNo. However deranged it sounds, and it does take a lot of mental energy, after a while (a long time because you have lived them a long time), those overwhelming voices of criticism/contempt get less deafening, start to fade, and the beautiful, god-created being you were when you were born but was crushed, grows to fill the space.

I really find the kindness of Mumsnet incredible sometimes. That there are people out there who know and validate what a complete stranger is saying, who understand the reality, who supply all sorts of support, from practical, professional to emotional.

i'm oddly excited for you and the kids, NoNoNo, i really do think that this is the start of a new life for you. and how funny and appropriate is your name, viewed from that perspective?

thank you Abitwobbynow - this is indeed mumsnet at its best. i am not good at fighting back the 'voices' in my head. i give in very easily to those voices which say i can't do things. i don't seem to have the power to over-ride them... i obviously have in some areas, because i managed to go off to uni and get a first class honours degree and go on and get a good job. but in other areas i cower in the corner with my tail between my legs feeling useless.

and yes, aitch - i suppose my 'name' is quite apt. of course, it was a reference to my daughter and her favourite mantra last year (which has now become 'noooooooooooo. leave me alooooooooooooone. i can do it myself'. that wouldnt 'work quite as well as a username ). perhaps it can now refer to the 2 yr old me, standing my ground to my mother!

i am also quite excited. i can't wait to talk to the counsellor tomorrow and then start the next chapter of my life.

NoNo I'm so heartened to read your latest post. You can do this, we're right behind you on the screen, so to speak. Practice those visualisations, they will be valuable in building your mental strength. Keep going. You can do this for you and your children......

my dd said the same thing, i do rather mourn then they correct these little language quirks. (although how farking BONKERS must your parents be to pick on someone that cute?)

Good luck tomorrow OP

Well done OP.
It's fine if you take the less difficult way out and e-mail or write to your "parents" to tell them how things are going to be from now on.
And remember it doesn't matter if their "feelings" are hurt. When have they ever cared about your feelings?
You're doing this for your children. And yourself.
And once you've done this you'll realise you can do anything you want. It will be a liberation.

Well done & good luck OP! You can do this!

They wouldn't feel hurt in the same way you would anyway. It won't be "Oh my God, what have I done?" - it'll be "humph, all that fuss about nothing, who does she think she is?" Because if they were capable of feeling remorse they would also be capable of at least trying to change their behaviour.

Bah! I did a big long post and then there was a technical glitch.

Basically - well done NoNo. You sound like a different person already! You sound firmer and stronger. Maybe getting angry gives you the fight you need?

I agree with what you said about the Police visiting your parents. I know they live miles away but i wonder if this could be arranged? After all, you weren't the perpetrator. I think they didn't take it seriously but they'd have to if someone dropped in on them. Might do them the power of good!

Also well done on your First - you should be proud of yourself.

Good luck on Saturday. All the best to you.

Nonono, your mother sounds as if she was ans still is a rubbish mother, you are now a mother and it is your job to do better then she did, and I am sorry but letting her tell you children they are nasty and horrid, is not being the best mother to them that you can be, you are a grown woman you do not need approval and by she sound of it you will die waiting for it, so for your children's sake tell her to get the hell out of your house and life I hope your Exs parents are better grandparents to your poor children

Good luck for your appointment and all the very best. You're on the right road. You'll get there.

well done OP, please let us know how you word your message - I am currently seeing a counsellor as (having been given courage by MN!) I am getting legal advice about what action to take about my mother for her long term abuse of me - interestingly she also wants access to our DC (over my dead body). I am going to be writing a letter detailing why and cutting contact, trying to get ready to do that but I feel the sooner the better would be a good idea.

Yay for you, NoNo, it sounds like you are on the right track.

This sort of baggage of a toxic upbringing really drags you down. It's a really hard time for you but I bet if you can work through this with your counsellor, stay strong and keep your focus, you will feel a million times better six months or a year down the line. It'll be worth the hard work in the short-term for the long-term gain. Do you have anyone in real life that can offer some support, like a close friend? Even someone you can meet and laugh and chat with would be good to take the pressure off.

Thanks all - off to see my counsellor in 15 mins. I have a really good friend, who is mum to 2 kids the same age as mine. She knows me inside out and knows all about this, so I can talk to her and drink tea with her and even cry if I need to, and she is amazing. We are going on holiday with the 4 kids in the summer (like we did last year) - and I can't wait. The kids have such a ball together and we sit back and laugh (semi-hysterically) while waiting for the sun to go down so we can open a bottle of wine! I value my friendship with her very highly, as I have never had a close friend like her before.

I also have a very supportive partner. He is working through a lot of issues of his own, and I also have a long way to go with mine, so I am taking it easy with him. We see each other each week but I am holding back at the moment. I know I need to take it slowly - for the kids' sake as much as mine. But he is a treasure, and I do trust him (as much as I ever trust anyone).

He is here today and is coming with me to the counsellors (at least as far as the door anyway). He was here when the police came last week (but he wasn't with me at my folks' although he does know what they are like), so I have talked everything through with him as well.

Great to see you have support NoNo. Remember we're here if you need a virtual (((hug))).

Big day for you No, No.

Wishing you luck.

Please let us all know how it goes.

You are anything but a waste of space.

You are awesome.

On the fly now but just wanted to say thanks for thinking of me. I will post in detail later but the upshot was the advice was to confront her and try to facilitate highly managed contact. I will be seeing her again to get assistance with standing up to my mum. Am not convinced it will work but I have to try in order to ensure that my kids don't blame me from stopping them from seeing their grandparents. This is at odds with my guy reaction which is to run as fast as I can away from my parents.

I´m really surprised at that.

Why would you be encouraged to force your contact with people who are abusive to them?

"force your children to have"

A bit surprised a) that you were given such definite advice by a counsellor and b) that you seem to feel you have to follow it.
I have an abusive mother and assorted counsellors have talked about "confronting" her. But in my experience often people who haven't experienced parental abuse underestimate the difficulty?and, I suspect, the usefulness?of standing up to it.
The aim is to lessen your contact with your parents and to protect yourself and your children from them.
How you do that is entirely up to you.

i have never confronted my mother over anything, and the times i have done something she doesn't approve of or like, she has withdrawn contact for months at a time. so i know the standing up to her over this will result in her not talking to me for quite a long time, which in itself is actually fine.

i guess i may as well stand up to her, rather than just cutting her out completely. she won't do what i am going to ask her to do - which is stick to my rules around the kids. and i won't be giving her ANY opportunity to see the kids on her own. if i go the toilet, both come with me etc.

so for now, i need to call her and tell her that they are not seeing the children next weekend. one step at a time. that will probably result in a huge sulk from her anyway.

i still do struggle with why i would really want to have her in the kids' lives and my life. but most of that feeling comes from the fact that i want revenge for what she did to me as a child, and that isn't the right attitude to take. the children do talk about my parents and are always pleased when they know they are going to see them. the risk, if i cut them out completely, is that they grow up resenting me for stopping them from seeing them, as they wouldn't understand what happened.

i suppose i have to try confronting her - since i have never done it before. although i am doing it with a heavy heart as it's not really what the 'daughter' in me wants to do. the daughter wants to run far far away from the abusive mother. the protective mother in me wants to shield my children from the abuse i experienced - and i need to see if i can do that, while facilitating a very limited contact with my parents.

But you have already confronted them and they threw it back in your face indeed calling your DD a 'nightmare'. How can facilitating contact with abusers be a positive thing? No I think that is terrible advice. The only person I know who confronted abusive parents had 10 years of intense counselling before she could do it and a huge amount of prep and it was something she really wanted to do for herself.

Can you really be bothered? I don't think they are of any value to you or the kids. You should be concentrating on getting your head together and enabling your DDs not to be involved with such folk.

It sounds like a frustrating and pointless exercise. Just get rid. Really. That is taking control.