Should I ignore my mum's comments to my DS when they make my blood run cold? (long, sorry)

[NoNoNoMYDoIt]

Background - I have 2 DCs (DS 5 and DD 2). I am separated from their father but the children have shared residence with both their father and me.

My parents live 150 miles away so when they come to visit, they always stay.

My relationship with my parents is strained at best. My mother is very controlling and disapproves of me in just about every way imaginable.

This is about the way she is with the kids, tho. She can't cope with their behaviour at all (and their behaviour is far from awful). She rises to every single situation and gets very stressed by them. My father is also very short with them and calls DD 'child', rather than her proper name.

When they come to stay, I find it very stressful, not least because I hear my mum talking to the children, mainly DS at the moment but I can see it starting with DD also, in the same tone that she used with me. When I was growing up, I was always a 'horrid child', 'stupid', 'retarded, 'the worst thing that happened' to her. She 'rued the day I was born', wished she had never had me etc etc. And of course this has left me with woeful self esteem and an inability to form a real bond with another adult.

I am desperate to protect my children from this and go over the top (probably) to make sure they never have anything negative said about them. I still discipline their behaviour, with time-out / warnings and withdrawal of privileges etc. But it is their behaviour which is horrid or naughty, not them, and I am very clear about that.

So when my mum comes and starts saying to my son 'you are a nasty horrid little boy', I want to scream at her. But I don't.

I can't tackle her about this as she has only just started talking to me again after I went to court in the summer over residence of the kids - it didn't go the way she thought was best and she withdrew all contact with me for 4 months after the court ruling. If I try to say anything to her, she will just stop talking to me again, which is fine but then the kids miss out on seeing them altogether. The kids still ask to see their GPs so I know the relationship is important to my kids.

So am I right to just ignore what she says? I end up so stressed when she is here, because every time the kids get over-excited and start to play up, I worry she is going to start saying hateful things to them. As a result, I can't leave them on their own with her and my dad. I have tried to go for a run (for 40 minutes) while they are staying, but when I get home, usually one, and sometimes both, of the children is upstairs in its bedroom screaming because it is in trouble for something and has been sent to bed. My mother has a tendency to scream like a banshee and I cannot bear the thought that she might do this to my kids.

Your children deserve better grandparents, I think no GP's at all would be better for them and for you.

Truth is, your parents aren't capable of being good grandparents. You need to accept that.

birdsofshoreandsea - you are right I should challenge it when it's happening. I suppose there is still a bit of fear of rejection from my parents in the back of my mind. So if I rock the boat and challenge them, they will walk out again.

However, I also know that it is so VERY much easier for me when I have no contact with them. I had no contact over the summer and, to be honest, I didn't miss it at all.

I don't know, therefore, why I fear the actual event of them expressing their rejection of me so much. When it's happened, the result is actually much better than when they aren't rejecting me!

Because of distance I grew up without any significant contact with my GPs.

It really doesnt matter. I wasnt really aware of an absence of contact.

If GPs are nice people then the realtionship between DCs & GPs is a good thing. If GPs arent nice people then dont bother with them. By the sounds of it your DPs add nothing to your life or to your DCs' life.

You dont need to make a big drama out of it just keep phone calls short and not be available for visits.

Blood may be thicker than water. Sometimes that just means it's harder to clear up.

Would you choose to spend a nanosecond of your time with them if you werent related?

GnomeDePlume - good point. No, if they weren't related, I wouldn't...

It is easy for a bunch of strangers to say don't bother with your parents but so much more difficult to acheive in real life.

Firstly - you are doing a great job as a mother and that is the most important thing for your DC's self esteem (as you sadly know from first hand experience). Children are very perseptive and often a great judge of character and you will probably find that your DCs, in a couple of years, work out that your parents are a pair of arseholes.

You do need to challenge your parents when they say horrible things, maybe not directly, though (easier for you), you could say something like "well DS, I think grandma is wrong and that you are a wonderful little boy." If you do that often enough you will find it easier to challenge your M and D directly.

You do need to accept that you were dealt a rotten hand in life and that your M and D were/are shite parents and that they will never, ever change. It is sad but you will never get their approval so stop seeking it.

I hear what you say about your children needing to have a realtionship with their grandparents but at what expense? So they can hear how shit they are some of the time? No no no no no no no. My children woule love to have more family but no way are my parents getting anywhere near them as they would take from their lives, not add to it. Do your parents add to yours and your childrens lives?

Would you allow a stranger to speak to your dc's like that? No...just because you have some genetic link, means nothing. If they cannot behave with respect and decency, they should be kept away. If a shop assistant spoke to your children like that, you would not go back to that shop.

That is what I have had to do. You would be surprised at the number of people who have to make the same decision.

If it weren't for the kids, I would probably be very tempted to have only very minimal contact with them

Change your above statement to Because of the kids, I've got no choice but to have only very minimal contact with them

As for the 'idyll' that only exists in your head, lose it now and make sure your dc have only minimal contact with their toxic gps until such time as they're old enough to give as good as they get.

You may find that reclaiming your power does wonders for your self-esteem but, should your resolve flag, come back for reassurance that you are doing absolutely the right thing by divorcing yourself and your dcs from your parents.

Do you think your DC are asking to see their GPs only because you have protected them (DCs) from your parents' behaviour? If so, that's an unsustainable situation and also a lie.

I think depending on the maturity of your ds, you could explain that their gps love them but as when they were young their parents weren't nice to them, that sometimes they get confused about how to be nice to children, and say nasty things or are over strict?

Given that they live some distance away, cutting these people out of your life will really take little effort:

• short phone calls, put the phone down if the comments are negative to you 'oh dear we got cut off' if they phone back
• DCs never available to talk on the phone 'sorry, DCs are playing/sleeping/staring into space'
• any date they suggest is not convenient for a visit 'sorry we are planning to watch paint dry that weekend'

Write yourself a set of empowering statements and keep them next to the phone:

• I am a strong and capable woman
• I am a good parent
• My DCs are wonderful

Read these while your parents are on the phone, they will help.

What everyone else said. You and your DC would be so much better off without them in your lives.

Oh and huge well done re university. That's really brilliant!

GnomeDePlume - even though I am sitting here with a lump in my throat as I read such accurate analyses of my and my kids' relationship with their GPs, you have made me laugh at your 'staring into space' and 'watching paint dry'.

The very ironic thing is that my mum cut her mum out of her life (and mine as well, although I was always given the choice to resume contact if I wanted, but I never did). So really, you would have thought that she would do her utmost to make sure she protected her relationship with her own GCs.

I suppose I don't see her abuse as as bad as her mother's was towards her, or as bad as her abuse was towards me. And it's not. But that doesn't mean it's ok.

plupervert - I do protect my kids from their grandparents' behaviour, and it's this that is getting more and more stressful the older the kids get. When DD was a baby, it was ok because she was 'perfect' and never did 'naughty things'. Now she is a wilful 2yr old with a mind as sharp as razorblades, so she too cops for plenty of disapproval.

I know the kids will have to deal with negative comments as they grow up. But they shouldn't have to learn how to do that from their own GPs.

TheOriginalFAB - no they don't add anything to my life other than stress. But I suppose I still think they add to my kids' lives because my kids are always excited when they know they are coming. But then they are excited when my retired colleague from work comes to visit, or when we walk the next-door-neighbour's daughter to school, or anything else that is a bit out of the ordinary.

When DS was a baby 'nanny' was the centre of his life when she was around. Because nanny worshipped him. When he became a stroppy toddler, DD came along and was then the centre of attention. DS was then 'annoying' and 'horrid' and as a result, DS lost interest in his nanny and preferred my dad, who would play with his lego with him.

Now DD is turning madam-tastic, so my mum is starting to disapprove of her as well. And at the same time, my dad (who is 70 next year) is turning into a grumpy old man and ignoring everyone, so won't play with DS anymore.

So I do wonder what the kids get out of the relationship with my parents - but I don't want to deny them that relationship just because it's hard for me to maintain. However, if it's negative for my kids (and I was hoping it was only me that was really suffering in this set-up), then there is no point trying to preserve it.

You really do need to start having minimal contact for the dcs sake. I have done that lately,withdrawn emotionally,just engage in chit-chat, tell my dm nothing of a personal nature re.dcs,myself,dh etc.I still call in (lives nearby) but its so much easier this way. I am completely distanced emotionally. It will be easier for you given that they live away. Just make excuses and only have them to stay maybe once a year,when it suits you. Your dcs are far more important. Please visit the Stately Homes thread in this section. It has helped me enormously just reading other peoples posts. I think you will find the same .LOL

thanks - I will visit Stately Homes. I have seen it before but never read any of it.

(I am supposed to be doing housework - not getting very far as I just want to sob right now!)

How can you let them talk to your dc like that?

You are their mother!!!

Its your job to protect them from this, do it!

What on earth must your dc think then you stand by and let them be verbally abused????

Ds only has one GP (my mum). If she spoke to him the way yours does and we had the history you have with your parents there would be no contact. It doesn't sound as if either of your parents add anything positive to your life or those of your dcs.

I meant that you seemed to have successfully shielded your children from the horrible, undermining remarks thus far, meaning that the children were wanting to see their GPs based on an idealistic view of them.

It's awfully sad that your children's normal development exposes them to this criticism, and it sounds as though that will make it harder for you to shield the children.

Are you also managing to protect your DCs from witnessing your parents undermining and undervaluing you? Because when they say or do stuff that implies that you are not a capable, independent woman they are giving the children the message that mummy is a bit crap at stuff. And that's the sort of things which can feed into difficult parent/child relationships as the children get older (i.e. children learning to disrespect a parent because of the way other significant adults treat the parent).

And are you aware that your anxiety that the dc behave so as not to 'provoke' criticism from your parents, is an incredibly negative thing for a child to experience.
You may think that you are keeping things on an even keel but if you are tense and anxious about how they behave your dc will sense that.

My in laws were like this although not as bad. Ds1 has told me (he is now 18) how it felt, having endless criticism, my being anxious if he was too noisy, being told off for "bothering" grandpa.
He said he used to feel he must be a horrible child because grandparents love their grandchildren and want to be with them. And that if he just tried to be even better behaved, even quieter, less of a nuisance, they might love him.

We severed contact when he was 10. I had had enough. So had dh.
Ds1 has not been in a room with them since. Funnily enough they now really want to see him but he is not interested.

Oh gosh Pagwatch that is so awful. And yes, I have thought that my children will soon pick up on the fact that their GPs don't really enjoy spending time with them. DS is a very sensitive soul and has already asked why my dad doesn't play with him anymore. I just said he was getting old and needed to sit down more, but that is a lame excuse. My dad still runs marathons, so is hardly inactive...

I also struggle with the fact that my parents don't really seem to like my kids that much. I have realised today that they have never told me what lovely kids they are, or how proud they are of them, or how beautifully they are turning out. And they ARE doing well - nothing stunning, but they are bright, articulate and very funny kids, and any grandparent should dote on them really.

I struggle with this particularly because my dad has spent significant time in the past volunteering with children with learning difficulties and siblings of children with learning difficulties. He and my mum have always made such a thing about how much he loves kids (he would have had more kids but my mum never wanted any more after she had me because i was so awful etc etc). Kids always make a bee-line for him apparently. But then he can't be bothered with his own grandchildren; tells them to 'shut up', 'be quiet', 'oh do stop it, child' etc.

Up until now, I suppose I thought it was just an extension of their disapproval of me and didn't really affect the kids. But you have all made me see that it does, and I can't let it go on.

Bugger and bollocks. Life is going to be very lonely from now on... Ah well, good job I have such brilliant kids really

piprabbit - hadn't thought about that either. one of the things my XH always did was to make it clear that I was really a bit crap. In front of the kids. Nothing earth shattering, but I was always undermined. In the same way as my parents undermine me - my mum in particular - by re-doing everything I do in my own house. My dad also makes a fuss of what a pit my house is. Really, it is not. I accept that now - I know it's just his problem. But it doesn't stop him saying things like 'You mean you IRON DS's school uniform. I didn't think you knew how to iron' and not in a jokey tone, but in a very accusatory tone.

There is no affection from my father towards me at all. There is a little towards the kids when he first turns up, but that goes after an hour or so once he is fed up with them jumping all over him, or shouting over the top of each other, or squabbling over the same toy. My mother is more hands on with the kids and will play more with them. But her patience also wears thin, and when she snaps, it is far far more dangerous than my father's terse one-liners.

I'd go for the backing off and being unavailable route. But if you try to tell them what the problem is, and they ignore you for another 4 months, that'll be nice and peaceful for you, won't it? Although the thought of any such confrontation with my parents scares the life out of me - I revert to a scared 8yo in their presence, desperate for approval.

I think you might be better off losing contact with them now - if you leave it much longer your children will have firm memories of grandparents who didn't love or like being with them.

You won't be preventing your children from having a relationship with their loving grandparents - it's not you that is stopping that wonderful relationship from happening. If you stay in contact, your children are still not going to have a close relationship with loving grandparents, are they?