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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this a normal relationship ??

999 replies

yellowtang · 15/10/2011 09:18

I feel very confused atm so sorry in advance if this is all a bit muddled

I am very unhappy but not sure why,I have been with my oh for 14 years and we have 7 children,I feel so traped its crazy,I dont go out anywhere just food shopping,I run the home as you do,but somethings not right,I dont feel like I am me anymore,I dont really feel much anymore at all,I do everything to please my children and oh which I know is part of being a mum etc but I do and act like oh wants me to,I dont go out because Ill miss a job and hell moan,I dont see my friends because he will moan,he wont let me on fb,he doesnt like me to wear make up/perfume,I think the person I am today is who he wants me to be and not who I was/am.

We have always been close,from day 1 so I thought I didnt need friends because I had him,
Another thing I noticed is he says one thing and does another,last week I text my best friend from school,and said we would meet for coffee,it took me 3 days to tell him I was meeting her ,because I knew what his reaction would be,then he thought I was hiding it from him,I only met her because I told my hv I was unhappy and she said why not make contact with her again,when I told him he said I dont mind you going,but he moaned for a good 2 hrs about it?

He says he doesnt want anymore children but then he doesnt use anything,sorry tmi but withdraral,but he forgets? so hes doing the oposit of what hes telling me,I was pregnant withing 4 weeks of meeting him but he knew I wasnt on the pill but told my mum I told him I was on the pill?

If we have spare money,not bill money it always goes his way,he doesnt spend it on himself but he will spend the lot.

He is a good dad takes them to football and swimming etc,he will pick up the shopping,he will put them to bed,takes them out with him,but we dont go out as a family much,we have spent many years doing up our home and it lovely he spend all his wadges on the house,and will leave himself with nothing for the week.

I dont really know why I am putting all this here but I am so unhappy Im not sure what to do,I posted something else on here this week anout my childhood,and hes been great about it,talking to me each night but he doesnt want me to see a counsellor.

He went to bed early last night and I wasnt tired,he said oh its ok if you stay up,as he went up he said Ill wait for you,so I just go up to please him,what I really wanted to do was turn the tv over and stay on the sofa for another hour,He would of said,why dont you want to go to bed at the same time?

Another strange thing Im scared of him, hes not ever hit me but Im scared if I dont please him,he will moan,shout or I dont know,he makes me jump,sounds stupid but not sure why.

I also get anoying comments from him,I phoned him by mistake the other day,he said why who are you ment to be phoning,but its the way he says it,sorry for the rushed/rambled post but Im banging my head here again

OP posts:
HerScaryness · 19/10/2011 23:56

Darling, I'm not scary, I'm Hissy mostly!Grin just wearing my halloween name.

I AM right, sadly, there is no other scenario. Please read the Lundy book, I promise it'll explain it all to you, and you will understand what has happened to you

I stress that, because, this is something done to you, not by you. If it wasn't you honey it'd be someone else.

Please see this, please let yourself it's not you, it's not your fault, it's HIS choice to do this to you, please forgive you self, this is not about you.

izzywhizzysfritenite · 20/10/2011 04:40

Okay, honey, I'm going to put my hands up and say that I'm going to go against the flow here and feel free to shoot me if I get it wrong but, IMO, the two of you can learn to grow together or, at the very least, separate on amicable terms that will do the least damage to either of you and the dc.

You've said I could see how unhappy he was when he was little, he didnt have a good childhood,so maybe he has to learn how to be in a normal relationship. IMO you're not far wrong in saying this.

It seems to me that, as much as you are trying to understand why he is like he is, you are also looking at your own childhood and trying to work out how you've come to find yourself ostensibly trapped in a relationship that you've come to realise isnt 'normal'.

Others are seeing an abusive man, pure and simple. And, yes, exercising, or trying to exercise, control over another against their will is purely and simply abuse.

But I'm not certain that he's incapable of change. He earns money regularly and, from what you've said, he puts it into the house - which, I seem to recall, you've said is 'beautiful'.

You've also said he's a good father. He engages with the dc, takes them out to various events and, presumably, spends some quality time with them in the home.

I suspect that he told you over and over that he was a 'giving' person because he was trying to compensate for what he lacked in his childhood; namely, loving and caring parents/adults that 'gave' to him. And when you met him you were emotionally needy because no-one in your childhood 'gave' to you. Can you see the mutual attraction?

When you met him you were only 17 compared to his 26 years. Before he met you he may have met a number of other women who he tried to 'give' to, but who weren't prepared to 'receive'. Suddenly, he meets you and you were only too happy to be the object of his, of anyone's, affections because you had a yawning gap inside of you that wanted to receive 'love' and, for you, love was about firm boundaries, it was about receiving a surfeit of 'love', it was about revelling in the fact that somone cared about you enough to tell you, or show you, that they 'loved' you and, once you felt sure of his love, you gave yourself up to feeling safe by being 'his'.

For him, 'loving' mean 'providing'. Providing a nice home, (probably the nicest house/home on the street/road) for his 'beloved' and for his dc; providing all of the material goods for them that he didn't have in his childhood and by 'material goods' I'm not talking about clothing and stuff. I'm talking about the edifice, the external view, the impression that anyone seeing his house and coming into it and looking at the surroundings, the furniture etc, will have of it - and him as a man of substance.

And because of his own insecurities, he needed to feel that he was in control of the 'castle' that he built to house his 'queen' and, as time went by, he also found that he needed to be in control of his queen because he knew that if his queen left his castle he'd be left with a house of cards that would fall to the ground.

You've said that you feel scared of him; you've also said that he's never lifted a hand against you. You've started to have 'the conversation' with him, you've said that you've talked more to him about the way you feel about his controlling ways than you've ever done before - and he has not responded by being violent.

Could it be that your fear of him is in your mind? And that your fear of him is linked to what we've touched on before - the man in the photo? The man that had the power to terrify you so much that you've suppressed your memories of living with him and your dm?

Have you transposed your fear of that ogre of your childhood onto the father of your children? Is this why, throughout your relationship, you have been scared of him? They may have many similarities in their behaviour, but they are not the same man.

You see, honey, it seems to me that you hold all the cards. I mean what the fuck would he do if you walked out and left him with 7 dc? And what the fuck would he do if you decided that wanted him to leave - given the number of dc, I would be quietly confident that a Court would have no hesitation in awarding you the right to remain in the family home at least until the youngest dc was 18 and, of course, he'd have to pay child support.

And, of course, your trump card is that should he threaten you or lift a finger to you, or in anyway act in a violent manner, all you have to do is dial 999 and the police will remove him from the house - and if you're in a situation where you can't physically call the police then, depending on their ages, you've got 7 little helpers who can.

At the moment he's doing the 'I feel so bad I'm fixing to die by not eating' number. Take no notice, don't pander to him. Take the view that he's an adult and if he doesn't want to eat, that's his problem. Give it a day or two and you'll find him stuffing cheese sarnies down his neck in the middle of the night - if he hasn't stuffed himself with Maccy D's during the ay.

Keep talking to him; keep laying your reasonable demands on him - start with the laptop. Tell him you want one of your very own; one you can use to go online WHENEVER you want to browse the net and visit any sites you want.

Tell him you want to live as other couples do - in a happy and rewarding union where mutual love means mutal enchancement and enrichment and tell him that if he can't get his brain round that, and do his utmost to meet your goals halfway, your relationship cannot continue.

Tell him your idea of a loving relationship doesn't extend to him dictating when you have sex. Tell him that you have the right to say no and that 'no' is exactly what you're going to be saying until he gets his act together and either has a vasectomy or uses condoms.

Tell him you intend to go out to see who you want and, subject only to the welfare of the dcs, whenever you want. And tell him that if he doesn't like it, he'd better get used to it because that's the way it's going to be from now on.

In short - and I'm fully aware that word's somewhat of a misnomer given how long this reponse is - tell him that his years of calling the shots are over and, as you've got your finger on the trigger now, he's best advised to bin his controlling ways and start behaving as if he does truly love you otherwise it'll be 'on your bike' for one of you.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 20/10/2011 07:46

Am sorry to write this Izzy but the approaches you are advocating simply do not work in controlling abusive relationships.

A "beautiful home" counts for nothing; it is but bricks and mortar after all. To YellowTang her home probably seems like a gilded cage and she is that bird within such a cage (a cage of his own making).

YellowTang's only real option here is to get out of this controlling abusive relationship and with her children whilst she still can. Controlling men do not let go of their victim easily so a planned exit is advised; the most dangerous time for you now is when you are ready to leave.

I would also say Yellowtang that by allowing your children to be seeing all this they are learning their share of damaging lessons from you as well, lessons that they could well carry over into adulthood. They won't thank you for staying with their Dominator of a Dad; he's no decent father to them
either and would ask of you why you chose to stay if you remained within this for the long haul.

Yellow Tang - read HerScaryness's most recent response. I fwiw would agree with every word of that post.

Talking to such people is a waste of time; they make it all about them and blame the other person for their inherent ills. You cannot reason with them at all, you will not win any argument with such a character because he won;t let you. Also you've had years of such conditioning and he has done a real number on you to get you to the low point you are now in. However, you can still escape him; you're not dead yet.

He may well have had a shite childhood but many people do and they don't need to control their partner. It is therefore no excuse or justification for his abusive treatment of you. (Controlling behaviour too is more often than not learnt behaviour, he probably learnt this from either one or both of his parents). You yourself had an overall unhappy home life when you were younger and as a result I still think you were suspectible therefore to such a what to you was a charming man. He has certainly revealed his true nature to you now. They don't change, honestly they do not. Words are cheap after all and he has given you the usual guff such men come out with; it means nothing. You've been with him long enough now to see that the control ante has been upped over time; he has controlled every aspect of your life even down to your own fertility.

HerScaryness · 20/10/2011 15:08

The nice house, the giving, the repeated telling everyone about the giving is ALL to make HIM look good.

The better his house looks, the better a man it makes HIM look. He's not ploughing money into areas that have no benefit to him. he's not decorating the house to his DW's tastes, he's taking ALL the decisions.

This IS a gilded cage. Been there, done that.

Izzy, i wish, beyond everything, that your post was right, but I've re-read the Ops posts. Sad there is overwhelming evidence that this guy is controlling and abusing her. Looks like he trapped her 4weeks in. This is ALL planned.

OP, make of that what you will. You were targeted, trapped right at the outset and he has kept you PG ever since. You have ZERO freedom.

Please buy the Lundy book? please? it'll really help you see what's what. it'll show you that it's all about HIM, and not you. You didn't fail, far from it. You are awesome.

izzywhizzysfritenite · 20/10/2011 18:41

This is yellowtang's earlier post: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1319977-What-happened in which it is clear that she has discovered that she may have repressed memories of her early childhood when she lived with the controlling and possibly physically abusive boyfriend of her dm.

In addition, she has only recently woken up to the possibility that her relationship with the father of her chilren is not 'normal'.

There's a great deal for yellowtang to come to terms with and, bearing in mind that she has very little experience of what a 'normal' relationship can and should be, at the present time my concern is to provide her with the ability to gain insight in order that she can make her own value judgements as to where she goes from here.

Her H (or P) has undoubtedly controlled her to the point where she has lived, or is living, in a state of fear as to what he might do if she does not submit herself to his every whim and it may also be that, given her early childhood experiences, she has magnified his power to keep her living in a state of terror.

In exploring why he acts as he does I am hopeful that the OP will see him for what he is, namely, a somewhat pathetic and emotionally needy man who has resorted to imprisoning the mother of his children to compensate for his own feelings of inadequacy.

Once yellowtang realises that she has the key to the door of her prison, it may be that she will find the courage to open it and walk out into a 'normal' life where she feels secure and unafraid.

It could be that she may discover that she has the power to redress the current imbalances and improve her quality of life within her existing relationship, or she may realise that the only way she will be able to live freely is to institigate a separation from her jailer.

Given her recent 'awakening', I am not going to urge yellowtang to act in haste or without considering all of her options. Instead, I would suggest that she begins to assert herself within her relationship unless or until he shows any sign of violence - at which point she should dial 999 and have him removed from the family home.

If yellowtang comes to the conclusion that her only hope of a 'normal' life is to live apart from her jailer I hope that, given that there are 7 children to consider, he leaves the family home and that she is able to live her life as she, and she alone, sees fit.

izzywhizzysfritenite · 20/10/2011 18:58

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not disagreeing with Attila or yourself HS and there's no doubt in my mind that yellowtang is being controlled by an abuser who most probably did target her and/or couldn't believe his luck at finding an impressionable young girl with little experience of a 'normal' family life to shape and mould to satisfy his abnormal beliefs.

Having re-read what I wrote at the unearthly hour of 4.40am today, I would also like to make it clear that in saying 'Could it be that your fear of him is in your mind?' I did not intend in any way to imply that yellowtang was imagining him to be something other than he undoubtedly he is, or that her fear of him is imaginary because I am certain that he has, and does, deliberately imposes himself on every aspect of her life to the extent that she has very little of it to call her own.

I suspect that yellowtang may find that the only way she can have anything that resembles a 'normal' life will be to leave him but, in this respect, I hope that he will be one to leave the family home - yellowtang has mentioned another property nearby; perhaps he can take up residence there and visit his dc at agreed times or, if he uses this as a means to continue to control her, they can visit him outside of the family home.

yellowtang · 21/10/2011 12:18

This is alot to take in tbh,I have been reading it all,oh has not left my side much the last few days.he knows I will leave him if he doesn't change I have told him he will not control me and I will stay with him because I want to and not because he is making me so then the next night we talked for hours and I realised that he was allowing me to see friends etc but on his terms eg you can go on the laptop just not at night you can see your friend just give me notice before you do so I told him he isn't having that control over me anymore I won't be out all the time maybe once a week with a friend but I will choose that and not him he's still trying to set boundarys he said as he didn't go out with friends he didn't think I should but says he can see now we both need that.I told my go about the photo today she has refers me for counselling it's scary I don't know if I want to drag it up, hope it's a woman! Something else I found out this week is why every man I meet I think he sees me in a sexual way and that's very sad, all the men in my life have only ever wanted me for that,I need help in sorting out all this is so much to deal with

OP posts:
HerScaryness · 21/10/2011 12:27

He's bamboozling you, the constant presence, talking for hours, he's wearing you down!

A normal guy will realise he's over-done stuff and back off to give you space to think. He's just clinging like a limpet. How unattractive. How desperate.

He's DESPERATE to keep you in some form of control. If you fell for this, he will behave for a few days, perhaps a week, but not forever, because he sees that HE is entitled to make demands of you, and that YOUR decisions are flawed in his eyes. He doesn't believe you are entitled to have a life away from him. you are not an individual, you are an object.

Step back from this. OBSERVE this bloke. He's plotting how to get control back, this will not stop, only the tactics will change.

YOU think every man sees you in a sexual manner. YOU think that. This is what YOU have been raised to expect. This stems from your childhood. It's not true, men don't see only that in you, but your expectation and subsequent response is what leads relationships with them down that path.

yellowtang · 21/10/2011 12:30

I do wish I hadn't met him all those years ago if I could still have my dc I can see how needy he is But this is up to him now and he knows I mean it I have said to him I will not forget the point he got me to it was alot worse than I posted but he did that to me, I won't forget that ands it's on my callinder , he got me to that state and it was bad , I must have took a judge step back from it because I can see it now but at the time I didn't know why I was so unhappy.
I feel stronger now maybe I can see it.

OP posts:
yellowtang · 21/10/2011 12:31

X post

OP posts:
yellowtang · 21/10/2011 12:44

Herscaryness he has talked at me for hours and hours but I picked up on what he was doing still setting boundaries

I know he is still setting them too in some ways with money.

I can see it but he's still trapping me isn't he? I told him yesterday my periods late he had a very subtle look on his face he should of been worried I know most men would at the thought of number 8 on the way, but he didn't , ar one min I'm thinking things are ok but writing it down on. Here makes me see it's not just realised he's controling the bedroom still to I said no but that didn't stand for anything.

OP posts:
yellowtang · 21/10/2011 12:51

Yesterday we spent the day together I thought things where ok then 10 minuets on mn I find it's not x

OP posts:
izzywhizzysfritenite · 21/10/2011 12:54

Honey, knowledge is power - get as much of it as you can.

Of course you wish you hadn't met him but, given your emotional neediness at the time, it if it hadn't been him it's likely it would have been someone just like him because you wouldn't have felt loved by a 'normal' man who gave you space to grow and be yourself.

I told him he isn't having that control over me anymore Now you have to mean it and harden your heart to any 'poor me' shit he pulls. He's had the whip hand for 14 years - now it's your turn to crack it.

oh has not left my side much the last few days Give him another day or so and then tell him that he's stifling you and that, if he continues to shadow you, you'll know that he doesn't mean a word he says about changing his controlling ways.

With reference to counselling, you'll most probably have to wait a while before you're called for assessment. At your first appointment, make it clear that you believe you'll feel more comfortable with a female counsellor.

HerScaryness · 21/10/2011 13:00

Love, i know it's controversial to suggest, but you do have choices and options about being PG. If you are PG with number 8 (faints Shock) and don't want to be, not a soul would judge you for taking a decision not to go through with it.

You saw that look and you know in your heart of hearts that the expression on his face was a poor attempt at veiled victory.

You have us now, you can call women's aid and talk through stuff you don't want to post on here. Please reach out, please let people help you?

yellowtang · 21/10/2011 13:04

Thanks izzy your right it is my turn now I know I can be strong and tell him these things I'm unsure that I will not recognise if he gets things to the way they were as I didn't see it coming last time will he do it again? Without me realising it, that scares me

If I'm pregnant I'm going to struggle and it will give him a big opportunity to take control x

OP posts:
izzywhizzysfritenite · 21/10/2011 13:05

He's being ultra-attentive, promising you that things will change - it's unlikely he means any of it and that's why you've got to step up to the plate and take no nonsense from him.

just realised he's controling the bedroom still to I said no but that didn't stand for anything Are you saying that he's still dictating when he has sex and that, effectively, he's raping you?

Do a pg test as soon as possible; if it's positive tell him that you're thinking of having a termination (even if that's the last thing in your mind) and see what his reaction is because I suspect that he's simply biding his time and he will revert back to his old ways.

If you're pregnant you may well feel unable to stand to him in the way that you need to in order to break his stranglehold on your life once and for all and if you back down now, you'll have it all to do again and it will be twice as hard because he knows that all he has to do is get you pregnant again.

Also make it clear to him that there will be no more sex until he uses a condom or has a vasectomy.

izzywhizzysfritenite · 21/10/2011 13:09

You are strong, honey, but you've got the welfare of 7 dc to think about and, being a loving mother, when you're putting their needs before you own (which is what loving mothers do) it's easy for you to be distracted and not fully realise what their df is up to.

When he seems particularly 'caring' about you, he's simply planning how to exerise more control over you.

izzywhizzysfritenite · 21/10/2011 13:18

You mentioned a while back that every time you're pregnant he seems to arrange something that causes stress or otherwise disrupts what should be a contented, relaxed, time for you.

That's because it's all about him. Even when you're pregnant with his dc, he can't bear for the attention to be off of him and on you.

BTW, if you were to decide on a termination you would NOT need his consent.

If you tell him that if you're pg you'll be having a termination, it will be interesting to see how he reacts.

izzywhizzysfritenite · 21/10/2011 13:35

You think that men are looking at you in sexual way because I suspect that, even before you got involved with the controlling abuser who's fathered your dc, you were being treated as a sex object, or felt that you were only 'good enough' for men to have sex with, rather than valuing yourself or being valued for yourself.

When he looks at you he doesn't see 'you'; he sees a possession that he owns and that he can do what he wants with whenever he wants.

yellowtang · 21/10/2011 13:37

I think I can prodit his reaction he'll try and talk me out of it he will appeal to side that he knows I love babies and dc I can here him now,I truly think if we didn't have so many dc I would leave but tbh I don't see any help or a way out with so many dc.

OP posts:
izzywhizzysfritenite · 21/10/2011 13:41

It wouldn't matter if you had 107 dc; Women's Aid can help you leave but you have to want to.

Are you married to him?

yellowtang · 21/10/2011 13:45

If I had a dad then I would of had a relationship with him as in normal but no one has played that roll, I have no brothers etc

OP posts:
yellowtang · 21/10/2011 13:45

No not married

OP posts:
yellowtang · 21/10/2011 13:47

Wa are to help women who are in violent relationships not controlling ones?

OP posts:
ItsMeAndMyPumpkinNow · 21/10/2011 13:53

Women's Aid are definitely there to help women in controlling relationships.