Is this a normal relationship ??

[yellowtang]

I feel very confused atm so sorry in advance if this is all a bit muddled

I am very unhappy but not sure why,I have been with my oh for 14 years and we have 7 children,I feel so traped its crazy,I dont go out anywhere just food shopping,I run the home as you do,but somethings not right,I dont feel like I am me anymore,I dont really feel much anymore at all,I do everything to please my children and oh which I know is part of being a mum etc but I do and act like oh wants me to,I dont go out because Ill miss a job and hell moan,I dont see my friends because he will moan,he wont let me on fb,he doesnt like me to wear make up/perfume,I think the person I am today is who he wants me to be and not who I was/am.

We have always been close,from day 1 so I thought I didnt need friends because I had him,
Another thing I noticed is he says one thing and does another,last week I text my best friend from school,and said we would meet for coffee,it took me 3 days to tell him I was meeting her ,because I knew what his reaction would be,then he thought I was hiding it from him,I only met her because I told my hv I was unhappy and she said why not make contact with her again,when I told him he said I dont mind you going,but he moaned for a good 2 hrs about it?

He says he doesnt want anymore children but then he doesnt use anything,sorry tmi but withdraral,but he forgets? so hes doing the oposit of what hes telling me,I was pregnant withing 4 weeks of meeting him but he knew I wasnt on the pill but told my mum I told him I was on the pill?

If we have spare money,not bill money it always goes his way,he doesnt spend it on himself but he will spend the lot.

He is a good dad takes them to football and swimming etc,he will pick up the shopping,he will put them to bed,takes them out with him,but we dont go out as a family much,we have spent many years doing up our home and it lovely he spend all his wadges on the house,and will leave himself with nothing for the week.

I dont really know why I am putting all this here but I am so unhappy Im not sure what to do,I posted something else on here this week anout my childhood,and hes been great about it,talking to me each night but he doesnt want me to see a counsellor.

He went to bed early last night and I wasnt tired,he said oh its ok if you stay up,as he went up he said Ill wait for you,so I just go up to please him,what I really wanted to do was turn the tv over and stay on the sofa for another hour,He would of said,why dont you want to go to bed at the same time?

Another strange thing Im scared of him, hes not ever hit me but Im scared if I dont please him,he will moan,shout or I dont know,he makes me jump,sounds stupid but not sure why.

I also get anoying comments from him,I phoned him by mistake the other day,he said why who are you ment to be phoning,but its the way he says it,sorry for the rushed/rambled post but Im banging my head here again

If giving him a little hope stops him being downright nasty I can understand why you have done that yellowtang. As soon as he realises you don't want him back he will change tack I can guarantee it.

He is breaching bail conditions. Call the police! Do you have the direct number for the DV team? All this pressure on you is not helping you at all and is all about him trying to push himself back into the house and get things back under control and to his liking.

I would also be worried what he is saying to your dcs unsupervised (over the phone or in person) believe me these little hearts do not need more pressure and manipulation from him. As things settle they may see him (depending on his behaviour) but they will also be beginning to see by then what a calm happy household feels like and they will soon come their own conclusions.

I agree. If he is breaching his bail conditions, the police need to know. And if he is not allowed to contact you, then I can't see how a Relate appointment would be acceptable either - it's contact, isn't it?

Please speak to the police about this. His harrassment is deliberate, and done with the intention of wearing you down so that you let him back in. I worry that it will succeed.

When it comes to the crunch tell him (NOT DIRECTLY) that you called relate for advice and they categorically told you that they cannot counsel you as a couple due to it being an abusive relationship. The bottom line is that this is the truth, nothing you can do about it! Feign ignorance and tell him you didn't know this until you called but that they said they would be happy to still keep the appointment in place for just him. I bet you a tenner he doesn't go on his own!

I really feel for you yellowtang, next week the kids will be back at school, the house will be a wee bit quieter during the day, and you will have a bit more head space and time to talk on the phone and so on.

Keep posting on here over the weekend and we will all support you.

YT, a few months after I left my ex (he was and still is living abroad thank god) my dd stopped having 'accidents' and also told me that she used to hate going home from school if I was working, she said she used to have 'butterflies' in her stomach and feel sick if there was only him in the house. My ex was no-where near on the scale of your partner either but it affected my dd, Really felt like shit when she told me, but it reinforced to me that taking her out of the situation was the best thing for her as well as me, she is 15 now and refuses contact with him and has done for a couple of years, he destroyed his relationship with his beautiful, caring and very intelligent daughter with his controlling ways.

Hi YT Saturday...stay strong.
It's 6 days since I asked my H to leave, wobbling all over the place but determined to stay away from him....I'm not putting my DCs in the position that they think their father functions normally in relationships..........stay strong too, your children will thank you forever.

Fool that's great well done cling on to your feelings about your dc, you sound very diterminind hun thats good,maybe with me it's more I'm still not sure in a way, I still don't think it was abuse, but I do know he ruled and it was all about him.I know it was neat a week for me, been so busy with dc
Maybe? I don't know
One thing is the dc havnt asked anything about him really , so I'm clinging to that because silence is golden do they say?

..so long as they aren't staying quiet to protect us.....I want mine to be kids...they've never been free just to blurt out what is on their mind for fear of a reaction!

He's here at the moment...few tears (from him) kids all delighted to see him (of course) but now he's just sitting on the sofa watching tv..with them I suppose at least they are all around here and in a good safe environment!

Gosh it is so hard being a grown up!

How old is DD?

Fool yes I see what you mean, but even the younger ones havnt asked to see him, he has got some of them now , they met him around the corner
He has just sent dd back to the house with a gift, I thinks it's a new coat, avnt looked at it, hr really thinks there's a chance he's getting back here
I need to tell his sister no relate no us and let him move on

It's so hard fool being a grown up I don't know if I'm doing the right or wrong thing by letting them go , I think your a star for letting your dc see him at your house , I know I couldn't if I saw him again I would give him a chance I know I don't want to see him again , because then it would be game over

My dd1 is 12 x she's closest to him

Ahhh, the gifts and the proclaimations of love and affection.... its all so textbook that you will laugh a few weeks down the line. Sadly it suggests that he will follow the script into nastyness when he cant keep up the pretence of lovliness for too long and it doesnt get him where he wants to be. Strange how easy it is to be nice when you want something, and funny how quickly the mask slips when you get told no - makes you realise that its all an act, saying what he thinks you want to hear, but nothing like the truth.

You really need to let the police know that he is breaking his bail conditions - first through his sister, now through the kids as he realises the sister route has been blocked. You need to tell them he has apparantly booked a relate session for the 2 of you, which also breaks bail, and NO WAY to go to it - maybe its a trick so that he can bring up that you were corresponding via the kids/sister and you met him at councilling. Dont let yourself be tricked. I think you need to explain to the kids that you cannot have messages passed just at this moment. She is old enough to understand, you can spell out the consequences if you feel she could accept it.

I might be tempted to say no contact whatsoever until after the court case - the fact that they have seen him also suggests some kind of correspondance. The little ones havent even been asking you say, and it will save the heartache for you. But that is your choice. I would definately ask the solicitor. You dont want to do anything which could compromise the court case and allow him to come near you. If you can get a non molestation/occupation order then I think you could rightfully request supervised access or 3rd party handover at a contact centre (unsupervised, but without you having to arrange any handovers with him or his family) I think you are right, and that you need to cut him completely away from you until you are strong enough and have had full realisation of the abuse. You feel he RULED, well that IS abuse. And the face through the mirror????

The coat or gift needs to be returned too. Can you pack it up and send it back? Or hand it to the police when you tell them he is trying to make you break his bail conditions (because he WILL make it your fault, and sadly and unfairly a judge wont look kindly on a woman asking for help and then having contact with the perpetrator)

And get a copy of the Lundy book ASAP and start reading, please.

He was placed on conditional police bail last Sunday which is less than a week ago.

The conditions are that he must live at his sister's address and must not contact you or come near or into your home.

Within hours of being placed on conditional bail, he made contact with you via his sister since when there has no let up in his demands, covert threats, and attempts to continue to control you.

Having failed to manipulate you through his sister, he has not scrupled to use his children to keep up his pressure on you.

This man has no compunction about setting firm boundaries for others but he has no intention of observing the boundaries that the police have set for him.

If he is still 'around the corner' call the police NOW and get him moved on and told to cease contacting you in any way, shape, or form.

no YT I let him see them at the house so i could be around for the children, but he's so manipulative he's breaking my heart. Hopefully I can stay strong but it's so hard.

The last week without him was bliss. Today children are in pieces, I'm in pieces. Children don't understand why just saying sorry won't work ( he hasn't by the way!)

The trouble with doing it for the kids is that they can't see that..., they want the happy loving family that never was.

Please make no mistake; for him the one week marker since he was summarily removed from the house is significant and it is his intention to be be back this weekend sitting on the same sofa where you and the dc enjoyed the freedom of eating pizza and, for the first time since they were born, chose which tv programmes and dvds you wanted to watch.

Let's take the top off his head and take a look at what's been going on in his mind since he was given police bail on condition that he makes no attempt to contact you:

While being driven to his sister's home by a police officer that he was able to manipulate,by way of his Oscar winning performance as a broken man, into acting as his taxi driver, he saw a way to circumvent his bail conditions by putting his hand up his sister's bum and using her mouth to voice his words in order to continue to maintain his power over you.

Within hours of being bailed, he demanded to see the dc and, when you agreed to his demand, he believed that he had got his foot in the door, so to speak, and that all he had to do was keep pushing.

There then followed a barrage of the predictable violin tunes; he's sorry, he didn't know what he was doing, etc, etc, and, knowing full well that she'd keep to his script, he sent her to see you in person to keep up the pressure.

When, by midweek, he began to realise that it wouldn't be as simple as he first thought to walk all over you again, he started the 'needing to know if it's over' campaign, slyly dropping in a threat to only pay the mortgage for this month and saying that he was thinking of selling the house from under you.

He seriously thought that would do it; that the thought of losing your home would make you welcome him back with open arms - the return of the conquering hero.

When you withstood that covert threat, he was taken aback - but not for long because there's always a Plan B, C, D, E through to Z and then back to the start of the alphabet again with a man like him so he came up with the idea of Relate - what better way than to make you believe that he was sincerely looking to repair your relationship?

Once he'd planted that thought in your head, he followed through with manipulating the dc into sending you his love, hugs, blah, blah, and, course, he wants to see the baby - aahhhh, isn't that sweet, or would be if he didn't know that the thought of being apart from your baby for more than a few minutes would wound you more than anything else he's done to you.

And now he's standing around the corner from your home using the dc as go-betweens to send yet more messages and gifts.

To be continued.... very soon but, in the meantime, FGS don't relax your guard and don't for one minute be taken in by anything he says.

Did you notice, Yellowtang, that the kids were HAPPIER without him around. Now he's worming back in with his contacts and his gifts and the meetings round the corner - they're stressed to bits.

What he's doing is using them to get you back in his control. That's horribly unfair on children, who can't understand this type of adult manipulation and shouldn't even be exposed to it.

He is breaking bail. Please call the police and tell them about the calls from his sister, the messages through your DC, the meetings and presents. Please! The police are there to help you on this.

I agree you've most likely miscarried by now. It's such an awful feeling, physically and emotionally - my sympathy, lots of it! I'm not going to scarify you as it was early and you know what you're doing - maybe see the doctor when you can manage it, and please make sure you're eating properly and taking a multivitamin+mineral daily. It takes a lot out of your poor system.

What are your neighbours like? I'm thinking of any othr grown-ups who could mayve come over for a couple of hours' company and maybe a hand with DC. How about any of the children's friends' mothers?

You will be okay: keep reaching out and accepting support. Call the cops, and have a think about friends who might help out or at least have a talk.
Lots of love.

Part 2:

I remain convinced that it is his intention to be back in your home this weekend and that his mention of 'Relate' is little less than a cynical attempt to soften you up by making you believe that he is willing to 'work' on your relationship.

Despite Relate's waiting list for counselling, he has miraculously apparently secured an appointment for Monday which he has asked you to attend with him and now we will look at his less obvious motives for producing this particular rabbit from the hat:

1. He knows that if you voluntarily meet or communicate with him, you will be giving him ammunition to use against you in any legal proceedings that result either from his arrest or other matters.

1. In responding to the messages that he has sent, and is continuing to send through his sister and the dc, you are making bullets for him as he will not scruple to turn your responses around and claim that any messages were initiated by you and are evidence that, as you see no reason why he shouldn't be in contact with you, he poses no danger to you or the dc and that the offence for which he was arrested was nothing more than an unfortunate 'misunderstanding'.

If they are informed of the true facts of the matter, Relate - and any other similar organisation or reputable individual therapist - will categorically refuse to offer joint counselling to a couple where one party is under arrest and on bail for assaulting the other.

Giving the demands on their services, I suspect that there is no appointment on Monday and that, should you be stupid enough persuaded to meet him at Relate's offices, it will be for no more than providing your details and asking to be put on the waiting list.

Of course, he will explain this away by saying that when he phoned them he was led to believe that they had offered an actual appointment to meet with a counsellor rather than telling him their office opening hours for enquiries.

Having achieved his objective of seeing you face to face, he believes that he will then be in a position to convince you, as he has done so many times before, that black is white and that he knows what is best for you and the dc and then, before you know it, he will be driving you home and you'll be back to square one - it won't look too good for you if you press that panic button and he tells the police that you've both just returned home after being out together, will it?

In addition, the carrot of 'Relate' also serves as a face-saver for him as, if he doesn't get his feet back under your table by Sunday evening, he'll be able to tell himself, his sister, and others, that it won't be long before he's back with you and the dc.

I hope that parts 1 and 2 of my response will enable you to put some lead in your pencil and stand firm during what will be an onslaught of pleas and blandishments today and tomorrow if you don't stop him in his tracks by calling the police and having him warned off making any further contact with you.

What Izzy wrote ^^ x2. Clearly explained.
Yellow, he's making you help him to break bail.
Don't let him make a puppet out of you!
Tell the police.

Adding my voice to izzy and garlic...

yup...agree with clear sighted ladies above...don't let him in...he's tricky and very well versed!

Just a quick PS - you don't need to tell him or the dsis that you have no intention of going to Relate with him on Monday.

Let him and her spend the weekend thinking you've fallen for it. Tomorrow we'll talk about when and how you will break the news that you're not as mindless as he thinks you are thanks to him having controlled your every thought and move for far too many years.

Fool if your reading I was just thinking about you, you know your doing the right thing now and you know why your doing it, one day you you can tell you dc what you did? How brave you were and they will be so proud of you , whatever your doing tonight , if you didn't stay brave, I'm thinking about you x

Thankyou again ! For the great posts, up thread
I just hope I havnt done anything to mess things up, I sent a few messages to his sister, he still shouldn't be contacting me though he text me today
And of all the Fucking check he sent dd back with a .... A package of peanut m&m s ! Wow he's really knows how to impress! I thought maybe a box of roses at least ? Or mallteasers you get them in the pound shop you know...but a 50p packet of m&ms er well what can you say

keep on keeping on...that's what I'm doing...just about!

Just wanted to say I do feel a bit stronger today, and really feel I don't want him back, I know I don't need to see him if I do , the games almost over I will crumble straight away, but I don't need to see him so thats ok, he bought some dc back today and I parked the car around the corner like before and gave dd the key , she walked around corner to him, but he bought car back just next door, and I saw the back of him, my heart jumped it was hard, so no I rely don't wAnt to see him.

I left a massage with the dc, so well see

We can do this together fool ? I'm not on my own then ?